Bubble King Setup, Tuning and trouble shooting thread. Post your questions here!

[biecacka]

Here it is today.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m...AE7006840.mp4]

Corey

[slief]

Originally Posted by biecacka

Here it is today.
http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m...AE7006840.mp4]

Corey

Looks great now! You are finally skimming and something to show for it in the form of skimmate in the cup. I wouldn't mess with it anymore for a few days and see what it produces.

[vikz]

Guys I have jyst bought double cone 200 with rd3 pump for my 180g reef. Previous to this i was running an atb 840 and its absolutely fantastic skimmer. But I treated myself this Christmas.

Skimmer is now 2 weeks old. After 1 week it started skimming, but it was in shalliw water of 16cm, running at 34w with wedge pipe 75-80% closed. But it then stopped skimming.

Following advice I have relocated the skimmer to deeper water.i found it was simply not producing consistant skimmate like me previous skimmer. This Produced little to none and very wet.

It now sits in 24cm of water. Royal exclusiv rec 20-25cm for this skimmer.

At this depth with wedge pipe FULLY OPEN i can achive a head of foam midway in the neck at 34w on pump. It still is not producing good skim and it's very watery. Howrver the height ofbthe foam head is like my previous skimmer, halfway up the neck.

In order to improve and make more consistent do you:

Do you advise closing the pipe and reducing air?
Or increasing power and let it skim wet in a hope it darkens up later?
Leaving it to run as it is?
Is there really a big differdnce at each setting?

I still cannot understand the concept of wantjnb to restrict skimmer air and water, i always was told bigger is better.

Could somebody please explain what I should do and why?

[slief]

Originally Posted by vikz

Guys I have jyst bought double cone 200 with rd3 pump for my 180g reef. Previous to this i was running an atb 840 and its absolutely fantastic skimmer. But I treated myself this Christmas.

Skimmer is now 2 weeks old. After 1 week it started skimming, but it was in shalliw water of 16cm, running at 34w with wedge pipe 75-80% closed. But it then stopped skimming.

Following advice I have relocated the skimmer to deeper water.i found it was simply not producing consistant skimmate like me previous skimmer. This Produced little to none and very wet.

It now sits in 24cm of water. Royal exclusiv rec 20-25cm for this skimmer.

At this depth with wedge pipe FULLY OPEN i can achive a head of foam midway in the neck at 34w on pump. It still is not producing good skim and it's very watery. Howrver the height ofbthe foam head is like my previous skimmer, halfway up the neck.

In order to improve and make more consistent do you:

Do you advise closing the pipe and reducing air?
Or increasing power and let it skim wet in a hope it darkens up later?
Leaving it to run as it is?
Is there really a big differdnce at each setting?

I still cannot understand the concept of wantjnb to restrict skimmer air and water, i always was told bigger is better.

Could somebody please explain what I should do and why?

Can you tell me a little about your tank? Display size, number and size of fish etc? It would help greatly to understand your load which is why I am asking. Also, what is your salinity and are you measuring with a hydrometer or a properly calibrated refractometer? I ask because it sounds like you either have very low load in terms of fish or really low salinity. The symptoms are that of an oversized skimmer for the display size or load. Without enough dissolved organics, a skimmer can't make a proper consistent foam head and would have to be adjusted really wet to produce consistently. The larger the skimmer, the more dissolved organics needed for the skimmer to be consistent. As such, please tell me more about your tank and the answers to the above questions may shed some light.

Your pump level is higher than I would normally recommend for that skimmer and you are running at a higher depth that I would normally suggest for a reasonably stocked tank. Normally I would suggest around 20-22cm and a pump speed of around 27-30 watts. The lower wattage will decrease the bubble size which makes better foam and will increase the contact time. Both of which are important for best skimmer performance but the depth is kind of a variable that depends on other factors. A lighter load will necessitate a higher sump level. The heavier the load necessitates a lower sump level. Your skim is wet in part because of the high pump speed and high water level. Less is more sometimes and in this case, the smaller bubbles coupled with the increased contact time will produce better results. In your case, these changes will lower the foam level in your skimmer so you will need to make futher adjustments to raise the foam level in the skimmer. I would suggest dropping the wattage to 30 watts and closing the wedge pipe to raise the level of foam in your skimmer. That or raise the sump level even more so that your skimmer is in 25cm of water. Even so, with the lower pump speed, you are more than likely going to need to close the wedge pipe a bit even if you raise your sump level another cm.

Edit:
It seems about a year ago you and I corresponded on the forum about skimmers. We were originally talking about the double cone 200 until you indicated that the display size was 125g and the total system volume was 180 or so gallons at which point I said that made a difference and suggested the double cone 180.. I also explained that you don't want to oversize these skimmers. What prompted you to do with the DC200?? Hopefully you got a bigger tank because the double cone 200 is too large for a 125 gallon display which would explain why the skimmer is running inconsistently and your need to adjust it really wet to keep it producing. See my post below because if my hunch is correct, than that changes things a bit.

[slief]

From our previous conversation in this thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2462653

Originally Posted by slief

That does effect things. With high end skimmers like the Bubble Kings that are properly rated, you should base the skimmer size on the display size since that is where the livestock/bio load is concentrated. As such, I change my recommendation to the Double Cone 180. The 180 will be perfect for your system.

If the above is correct and your display is 125, I would suggest lowering the pump speed down to 28 watts. Raise your sump level to around 25cm.. You might need to go deeper. The idea is to use the lower wattage to create drier foam and use the sump level to raise the foam level so that the water transitions to foam just above the white collar where the collection cups neck threads onto the skimmer body. You want to use the sump level to raise it up with the wedge pipe wide open or close to it. That way you can use the wedge pipe to fine tune it from there. You ideally don't want to close the wedge pipe more than 50% at your final setting. The lower pump speed will create better foam for removing the dissolved organics. The higher sump level will get the foam up into the neck.If you can't raise the sump level more or lower the skimmer deeper into the water, then use the wedge pipe to get the water to foam transition up into the neck. It will take several hours or more to settle in so make the adjustment and give it some time. I would suggest removing the collection cup drain plug so it can drain back into the sump if the skimmer overflows since you will be making a major change in settings.

[vikz]

Hi slief

You correct that was me before and my system and display size has stayed the same.

You recommended the 180 but jeremy b said to go for 200.

He said as coral mass increased it would increase bio load etc. And the 200 would be better suited in the long run.

So 1 year later with bigger corals here I am.

Reef runs at s.g of 1.025 with a refractometer.

Fish load
1 medium achilles tang
1 small kole tang
1 small convict tang
1 medium bkueface angel
1 royal gramma
1 flame angel
1 longnose butteffly
2 clownfish
2 emporer cardinals
3 green chromis
3 bicolour chromis
3 medium wrasse

Thanks

[slief]

Originally Posted by vikz

Hi slief

You correct that was me before and my system and display size has stayed the same.

You recommended the 180 but jeremy b said to go for 200.

He said as coral mass increased it would increase bio load etc. And the 200 would be better suited in the long run.

So 1 year later with bigger corals here I am.

Reef runs at s.g of 1.025 with a refractometer.

Fish load
1 medium achilles tang
1 small kole tang
1 small convict tang
1 medium bkueface angel
1 royal gramma
1 flame angel
1 longnose butteffly
2 clownfish
2 emporer cardinals
3 green chromis
3 bicolour chromis
3 medium wrasse

Thanks

Corals don't really contribute to the load much unless you feed them a lot where as fish do because they eat and poop. You have a decent fish load but the skimmer is a bit oversized. I would reduce the pump speed as I suggested above. Try 28 watts. That will reduce the bubble size and increase the contact time which will create better foam. Then increase the water level in the sump to raise the level inside the skimmer. Start by raising the water level 1/4" and see where that gets you. From there, you can try to use the wedge pipe to raise it further but try not to go past 1/2 closed. If you need to go past 1/2 closed then raise the water level in the sump further. You want the water to transition to foam inside the neck. I would aim for the transition point to be about 1/4" an inch above the point were the neck attaches to the body. That would be your starting point with a moderately light load for this skimmer. You may have to go higher but I would start there.

[vikz]

Thanks for the help slief

Im a little disappointed I was advised by both jeremy and royal exclusiv to go for the 200. Have I bought a very expensive paperweight?

I will try the setting you have suggested.

So to clarify the lower the wattage the smaller the bubbles (better) but less water is processed (bad) so its a case of balancing the 2. Is that right?

[Confuse]

I didn't want to make a whole thread about this, so I hope it's somewhat relevant to this one day...

I cleaned out my skimmer today and I noticed three of my impeller teeth were broken off. I then remembered a while back I had a snail slipped in and got caught in the intake, but took it out. It was probably this instance that broke it.

Anyways, I was wondering if there was any kind of snail guard available that could prevent this.

Thanks in advance!

[slief]

Originally Posted by vikz

Thanks for the help slief

Im a little disappointed I was advised by both jeremy and royal exclusiv to go for the 200. Have I bought a very expensive paperweight?

I will try the setting you have suggested.

So to clarify the lower the wattage the smaller the bubbles (better) but less water is processed (bad) so its a case of balancing the 2. Is that right?

No.. You didn't buy an expensive paper weight. You have a very good skimmer. You will just need to tune it a bit wetter. As for less water being processed, that is counter intuitive. It's not about how much water is processed but instead about how much dissolved organics is removed as the water passes through the skimmer. As such, the faster water passes through the skimmer often results in less organics being removed. The color and smell of your skimmate is the tell tale indicator of how well the skimmer is working.

[slief]

Originally Posted by Confuse

I didn't want to make a whole thread about this, so I hope it's somewhat relevant to this one day...

I cleaned out my skimmer today and I noticed three of my impeller teeth were broken off. I then remembered a while back I had a snail slipped in and got caught in the intake, but took it out. It was probably this instance that broke it.

Anyways, I was wondering if there was any kind of snail guard available that could prevent this.

Thanks in advance!

Snails and hermits will do that. They are working on some titanium inlet protectors but those are primarily for the flow pumps right now though there're may be something for the skimmer pumps coming as well. Snails in the sump are one of the reasons why I like my filter socks. One thing you could do is create a small acrylic box with lots of little slots in it and a hole at one end for the volute to slip into. I've often though of making something like that myself but in my case, the socks prevent that for the most part. With the Red Dragon 1 pumps that have the adjustable volute, something like that would be a bit of a pain if you needed to adjust the volute but for the RD3's, it certainly could work well.

[Confuse]

Originally Posted by slief

Snails and hermits will do that. They are working on some titanium inlet protectors but those are primarily for the flow pumps right now though there're may be something for the skimmer pumps coming as well. Snails in the sump are one of the reasons why I like my filter socks. One thing you could do is create a small acrylic box with lots of little slots in it and a hole at one end for the volute to slip into. I've often though of making something like that myself but in my case, the socks prevent that for the most part. With the Red Dragon 1 pumps that have the adjustable volute, something like that would be a bit of a pain if you needed to adjust the volute but for the RD3's, it certainly could work well.

Thanks. My sump etiquette was pretty poor, but I am now dedicated to keeping a filter sock, so maybe that'll minimize this. I have to shamefully admit that I didn't clean the RD3 for two years since I've had it running and it ran like a champ for that entire time.

Disassembly was a breeze and I got a load of the giant impeller and titanium shaft that makes this skimmer tick. It was quite impressive to say the least. These things are built solid! Wish I would have taken a picture!

[slief]

Originally Posted by Confuse

Thanks. My sump etiquette was pretty poor, but I am now dedicated to keeping a filter sock, so maybe that'll minimize this. I have to shamefully admit that I didn't clean the RD3 for two years since I've had it running and it ran like a champ for that entire time.

Disassembly was a breeze and I got a load of the giant impeller and titanium shaft that makes this skimmer tick. It was quite impressive to say the least. These things are built solid! Wish I would have taken a picture!

It does have a pretty massive impeller and magnet doesn't it? I'd swear, the impeller alone weighs more than a complete comparable Chinese DC pump.

That massive motor and impeller make it a much more powerful motor in terms of what will ultimately stop it as well as how much abuse it will take.

[biecacka]

One week of running http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m...FEAEACA76.mp4]

How's this look?!

Corey

[slief]

Originally Posted by biecacka

One week of running http://i333.photobucket.com/albums/m...FEAEACA76.mp4]

How's this look?!

Corey

Looks pretty good. Maybe a little on the wet side but it's hard to tell from pics and video. How long did it take to fill that much of the cup? How dark and smelly is the skim? What's the current pump setting? 27w?

[biecacka]

It's been running since Sunday. I haven't touched it for 3 days. Yes it is a bit on the wet side, the pump is on 27 and it is dark rich color of coffee. Stinks, but I think it can get nastier.

Corey

[slief]

Originally Posted by biecacka

It's been running since Sunday. I haven't touched it for 3 days. Yes it is a bit on the wet side, the pump is on 27 and it is dark rich color of coffee. Stinks, but I think it can get nastier.

Corey

Open the wedge pipe a tiny tiny bit. Just a crack is all it should take. That will help make it darker and stinkier but it will slow the skim collection down until you get a heavier load.

[biecacka]

Open it a bit. To lower water level a tad. My new fish should be ready Tuesday, I have 10 coming in. That will put me at 31 fish total. I dose vinegar and vodka as well to help my nitrate issue I have been having. It's been a week and I am already pleased with the results I'm getting, can't wait to reach its potential.

Corey

[arkoujohn]

I ordered the BK 200 double cone with RD3 and I am waiting for it!!
Any suggestion how to run it and break it in, in a new tank that hasn't been cycled yet and therefore has no NO3?
And any links or suggestions on how to properly cycle a potential sps reef aquarium?
Thanks!

[slief]

Originally Posted by arkoujohn

I ordered the BK 200 double cone with RD3 and I am waiting for it!!
Any suggestion how to run it and break it in, in a new tank that hasn't been cycled yet and therefore has no NO3?
And any links or suggestions on how to properly cycle a potential sps reef aquarium?
Thanks!

As for breaking in the new skimmer, you really don't need it during the cycle and it can be counter productive. If you decide to run it during break in, set it to around 27 watts and remove the drain plug and let the collection cup drip back into the sump until you get through the cycle and have some fish in the tank. As for cycling the tank, I'd toss a piece of raw shrimp in it and let that start your cycle. The tank will take around 30 days to complete the cycle. If you are starting with live rock, that usually helps with seeding the tank with a wide range of bacteria which can help shorten the cycle.

[biecacka]

Scott, I opened it a bit and got nothing in cup. So I closed it a bit today to see how it goes for the next few hours. I added 10 more fish to the tank today and upped my vodka/vinegar dosing to 4/10ml of each. Not a lot but an increase. Hopefully tomorrow we will see some sludge in there, if not I'll close it a very small amount again. Any other pointers?

Corey

[slief]

Originally Posted by biecacka

Scott, I opened it a bit and got nothing in cup. So I closed it a bit today to see how it goes for the next few hours. I added 10 more fish to the tank today and upped my vodka/vinegar dosing to 4/10ml of each. Not a lot but an increase. Hopefully tomorrow we will see some sludge in there, if not I'll close it a very small amount again. Any other pointers?

Corey

No pointers to add. The additional fish and feeding will add dissolved organics to your water which will increase your foam production. As such, the lower level in the skimmer may be needed but go back to what was working before you backed it off and see how it does after a couple days. I would expect an increase in skimmate so you will likely need to fine tune a bit more.

[biecacka]

as the vodka/vinegar mixture kicks in, should any adjustments be made for that. I see most people dosing this prefer to skim wetter by choice. I shouldn't have to change anything, maybe just expect nastier stinkier skim maybe?

Corey

[slief]

Originally Posted by biecacka

as the vodka/vinegar mixture kicks in, should any adjustments be made for that. I see most people dosing this prefer to skim wetter by choice. I shouldn't have to change anything, maybe just expect nastier stinkier skim maybe?

Corey

You will have to make your adjustments based on the skimmate production. Personally, I've never had to dose vodka or any other carbon sources but I would adjust my skimmer no differently if I was. I'd adjust my skimmer to produce the best quality foam that the results in the best consistent skimmate and personally, I've always preferred to skim wet as that always results in the most consistent results.

[biecacka]

Okay. When you say wet, you mean a bit drier than I have been and showed in the pictures above? It's been about a week and half so it's probably broken in or close to it. So now it's just dialing it in I assume

Corey