Wet Skimmate Water Changes?

[mobert]

I wet skim and top off with salty water for my water change also. My skimmer cup has a drain to house sewage and my top off container has an automatic dispenser to add salt: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...6&pcatid=14436
I just added the Koi feeder filled with salt so hopefully it won't clog or rust.

I don't miss that 50 gallon Rubbermaid container that used to sit in front of the tank for water changes!

[Elliott]

Originally posted by mobert
I wet skim and top off with salty water for my water change also. My skimmer cup has a drain to house sewage and my top off container has an automatic dispenser to add salt: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...6&pcatid=14436
I just added the Koi feeder filled with salt so hopefully it won't clog or rust.

I don't miss that 50 gallon Rubbermaid container that used to sit in front of the tank for water changes!

how do you control salinity? seems the variables of evaporation and top off volume/rate, volume of skimmate along with a fixed rate of salt addition would be difficult to control. is all your top off done this way?

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott
how do you control salinity? seems the variables of evaporation and top off volume/rate, volume of skimmate along with a fixed rate of salt addition would be difficult to control. is all your top off done this way?

I actually do check my salinity every few days and adjust the salinity of the top off water accordingly. I have been doing it this way for three years and it gets predictable. For instance after a heavy feeding, I can expect the skimmer to be more active and I would add more salt to the top off container. Not hard to do and I feel that wet skimming has helped control my nitrates.

Yes, all my top off is salty water.

[mobert]

The other advantage of wet skimming is the skimmer neck needs much less cleaning. I only need to clean the neck and cup once every month or two.

[OCEAN SIZE]

mobert - you rock on so many levels.

I was considering this potential... and of course you've already done it.

What about using a controller (I'm thinking of getting a ReefKeeper Elite) to monitor salinity, then turn on the salt Koi feeder if it gets too low?

[mobert]

Originally posted by OCEAN SIZE
mobert - you rock on so many levels.

I was considering this potential... and of course you've already done it.

What about using a controller (I'm thinking of getting a ReefKeeper Elite) to monitor salinity, then turn on the salt Koi feeder if it gets too low?

I don't mind checking the salinity with the hydrometer. I have gotten away from using probes----my ph and orp probes have long ago stopped working (needed cleaning or replacement much too often). The Koi feeder has a similar interface as the Eheim fish food feeders. You can adjust it to feed once or four times a day with one or two drops each feeding. It drops 1/2 cup of salt each time. So I can adjust it to drop 1/2 to 4 cups of salt per day.

Thanks for the compliment!

[Elliott]

Originally posted by mobert
I actually do check my salinity every few days and adjust the salinity of the top off water accordingly. I have been doing it this way for three years and it gets predictable. For instance after a heavy feeding, I can expect the skimmer to be more active and I would add more salt to the top off container. Not hard to do and I feel that wet skimming has helped control my nitrates.

Yes, all my top off is salty water.

I'm going to try it! thanks

do you allow your skimmer to drain directly from the cup to the sewer line? or to a container with auto shut off? I've alway been afraid to allow it to drain without a shut off mechanism since skimmers can go nuts and drain too much, although if you are replacing with salt solution it mitigates the risk. hmm, I'm currenly using Kalk to top off, I don't think it mixes with salt very well...

[JMBoehling]

I turn off my Kalk top off when I use this method to do my water change. It takes me approximately 4 hours to get 10 gallons of very wet skimmate. I do it when I know i'll be around the house. It would be cool to set up a auto topoff, maybe with a dedicated skimmer on a timer and multiple float switches to do the water changes for you.

Later,

Jim

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott
I'm going to try it! thanks

do you allow your skimmer to drain directly from the cup to the sewer line? or to a container with auto shut off? I've alway been afraid to allow it to drain without a shut off mechanism since skimmers can go nuts and drain too much, although if you are replacing with salt solution it mitigates the risk. hmm, I'm currenly using Kalk to top off, I don't think it mixes with salt very well...

I actually use a few safety measures.

The drain is restricted to a 1/4" polyethelene line. If the skimmer were to go crazy, the excess skimate overflows back into the sump but before it does that, the venturi intake for the skimmer pumps would suck the extra back through the pump and in the skimmer again.

The top-off water which comes directly from the RO filter is controlled by two float switches in the sump. In addition, there is a John Guest 1/4 valve that only allows a slow drip through the RO fill tube. There is a Kent float valve in the top-off water mixing container and another one in the sump.

So, worse case scenario is the the skimmer goes crazy and sump gets low on water and air bubbles are blowing in the tank from the return pump. The tank does not turn into a fresh water tank.

My top off water also goes through a Kalk container before it gets to the top off container. I'm not sure how effective this but my Calcium levels are acceptable.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by mobert

My top off water also goes through a Kalk container before it gets to the top off container. I'm not sure how effective this but my Calcium levels are acceptable.

so you are using a salt solution to mix your Kalk? ok, I'm going to try it!

I remember reading a post from Randy about some problem related to using a salt soln with Kalk, but hey, it's worth a try, I like your method!

[mobert]

A few pictures worth a thousands words:
excuse my mess:

The drain container is like a toilet tank. It doesn't empty until it is full and then drains to the bottom of the drain tube so the 1/4" drain line does not get clogged.


Probably only a mild kalk solution as there is no automatic mixing. I only fill it once a year or so.

[Elliott]

how does your waste container automatically drain when full?

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott
how does your waste container automatically drain when full?

It works by siphon and the siphon does not start until the water height/pressure is near the top of the container. You can see the 1/4" tube with the blue valve on it near the middle of the container. The end of the tube is a few inches off the bottom so it leaves the thick sludgy stuff that settled in the container. I rather do this than risk the 1/4" drain getting plugged.

The tube from the skimmer cup to the container has to be cleaned while the tube from the container to house sewage is perfectly clear.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by mobert
It works by siphon and the siphon does not start until the water height/pressure is near the top of the container. You can see the 1/4" tube with the blue valve on it near the middle of the container. The end of the tube is a few inches off the bottom so it leaves the thick sludgy stuff that settled in the container. I rather do this than risk the 1/4" drain getting plugged.

The tube from the skimmer cup to the container has to be cleaned while the tube from the container to house sewage is perfectly clear.

if you are replacing your evaporative water this way (replacing fresh with salt water) how do you prevent hypersalinity?

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott
if you are replacing your evaporative water this way (replacing fresh with salt water) how do you prevent hypersalinity?

replace with 1.022 instead of 1.026
adjust according to tank s.g.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by mobert
replace with 1.022 instead of 1.026
adjust according to tank s.g.

well, you really have me thinking

is there a salinity monitor/controller out there that will turn on/off a device such as your pond feeder? My salt water pool has a digital device that tells me when to add or subtract salt but does not control another device.

I'm thinking of creating a system similar to yours. I'm planning a little different skimmer shut of device when it goes nuts, still in planning stage. I will use a separate kalk drip connected to a RO reservoir controlled by my acII ph controller to avoid the precipitation that occurs with kalk and sea water:http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...7#post14122447

will update as the plan solidifies

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott
well, you really have me thinking

is there a salinity monitor/controller out there that will turn on/off a device such as your pond feeder? My salt water pool has a digital device that tells me when to add or subtract salt but does not control another device.

I'm thinking of creating a system similar to yours. I'm planning a little different skimmer shut of device when it goes nuts, still in planning stage. I will use a separate kalk drip connected to a RO reservoir controlled by my acII ph controller to avoid the precipitation that occurs with kalk and sea water:http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...7#post14122447

will update as the plan solidifies

I think there is an aquacontroller that measues s.g. and controlls devices but on the other hand, I may have to go back to manually adding a cup or two of salt every night as the Koi feeder has been crusting up and malfunctioning sitting over the open water. I will try raising it higher or running one of the cabinet fans more.

I don't have much precipitation probably because my unmixed Kalk mixture is very dilute and my salt is not full strength. My tank inhabitants do not require much additional calcium other than what is supplied by the water changes.

[Elliott]

could always get a dialyseas unit by seavisions I guess

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott
could always get a dialyseas unit by seavisions I guess

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/pr/index.php

sometimes the maintenance on all these fancy techno machines is more work than scooping a cup or two of salt every so often.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by mobert
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/pr/index.php

sometimes the maintenance on all these fancy techno machines is more work than scooping a cup or two of salt every so often.

my thoughts exactly, "simple stupid" works for me

[CleveYank]

This Idea is so obvious and simple it's ellusive. Brings all kinds of brainstorming for my extra monster skimmer I have laying around.
Very Cool.

[Elliott]

update:
I now have an 80g sea water reservoir as my top off. I am skimming wet, about 5g per day or 150g per month. I have about 500g total system volume. I am already noticing the ORP climb from 350 to 380 ave in just a few days. What I like the most is not having to clean my skimmer! I have not solved the puzzle how to automatically turn down the skimmer when it goes nuts, there must be a simple solution, help? As for Kalk, I'm constantly dripping very slowly from a 40g reservoir.

[JMBoehling]

Originally posted by Elliott
update:
I now have an 80g sea water reservoir as my top off. I am skimming wet, about 5g per day or 150g per month. I have about 500g total system volume. I am already noticing the ORP climb from 350 to 380 ave in just a few days. What I like the most is not having to clean my skimmer! I have not solved the puzzle how to automatically turn down the skimmer when it goes nuts, there must be a simple solution, help? As for Kalk, I'm constantly dripping very slowly from a 40g reservoir.

It would be cool to have a float switch on a 5 gallon resevoir collecting the wet skimmate. Connect the float switch to your skimmer. If your skimmer goes nuts, it will shut off the skimmer at 5 gallons. You then need to set a pump to drain the bucket every 24 hours as well.

Just a thought!

Jim

[Elliott]

Originally posted by JMBoehling
It would be cool to have a float switch on a 5 gallon resevoir collecting the wet skimmate. Connect the float switch to your skimmer. If your skimmer goes nuts, it will shut off the skimmer at 5 gallons. You then need to set a pump to drain the bucket every 24 hours as well.

Just a thought!

Jim

good thought! you could even have a slow drain on the bucket so it would allow the skimmer to run but not so fast as to fill the bucket and trip the switch, and if it did once the bucket drains down a little it would turn the skimmer pump back on, I'm running a PanWorld 250 that draws 400 amps so I need to obtain an appropriately sized float switch

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott
good thought! you could even have a slow drain on the bucket so it would allow the skimmer to run but not so fast as to fill the bucket and trip the switch, and if it did once the bucket drains down a little it would turn the skimmer pump back on, I'm running a PanWorld 250 that draws 400 amps so I need to obtain an appropriately sized float switch

That is why I have a 1/4" drain. It doesn't start emptying till it is full and it can only drain what a 1/4" drain can handle. If it were to get too full it backs up to my skimmer cup which fills up and the skimmer pump's venturi intake recirculates what is in the cup----which is ok because the skimmer had gone crazy and it is not too funky in the cup.