So you want to know about lighting

[FOX]

goby,

Like I said, the discussion is great, but the majority of us do not understand electricity/lighting the way you and the others discussing this do. All I'm asking is, what does all this equate to when I make my next lighting decision? That's all.

FOX

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members.xoom.com/KoryFox/index.htm

[badgers]

Fox:
what this all means:
MH are sensitive to mounting position.
Fluorescents are sensitive to heat.
Color Temp is actually Correlated Color Temp.(CCT)
CCT numbers are meaningless without a CRI number.
The reflector and lens plays a large part in how well the reef is illuminated.
6500K is about the highest CCT in nature at a CRI of 100.
For high intensity in small spaces MH is the best bet(800Watts in a 4' long space)
Lumens and Par are not very helpful in targeting the the main "pigments used in photosynthesis, chlorophyll a & b, absorb light in the 440-460nm and 640-660nm range"
thank you for your time and have a good day

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I'm so skeptical, I can hardly believe it!

[This message has been edited by badgers (edited 12-02-1999).]

[RobertK]

What about the distance between the lamps and the water surface? What are the factors one should consider when choosing/designing a hood regarding how high above the water surface a MH, PC, VHO or NO bulb should be?

[Reef Junkie]

Badgers,
Thanks for the info. I'll try and get in touch with the manufacturer of the bulbs I just purchased. Now I know why the tank looks so yellow when the lights start up. So knowing that MH bulbs need to reach a peak temp before dimming them, what would be the peak temp for a 400 watt bulb. I'm also assuming you're talking about Electronic MH ballast? Also, Ditto to what Robert asked.
Later,
Bill

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http://www.homestead.com/reefjunkie/highenergy.html

[Larry M]

A lot of this is over my head too, for right now. But I still like to see in-depth discussions like this because someday as I progress in the hobby I might want this information. What seems like Greek right now might not in a year or so. It's nice to know it will be in the archives when we want or need it.

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Larry M

View a list of RC Member's websites at:
http://www.reefcentral.com/membersites.html

[goby]

geez,

sorry that this is too deep for some of you.. I actually find it to be very interesting. Although some (alright, most) of this is way too deep for the average aquarist, and the information is all but useless to the most die-hard lighting freaks (yes, i'll admit, I am a lighting freak), it is VERY helpful and informative, and I am getting some really great info here. I like the fact that I now know enough to feel compitent going to any lighting store and getting EXACTLY what I need and not having to pay custom sealife, or PFO, or other big name, big dollar, fish suppliers.

go badgers! thanks for all this great info! I hope that when all is said and done to compile this and other lighting info into a great FAQ that will encompas all user levels from the novice, to the most hardcore lighting experts.. keep it up!

g
o
b
y


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The quest ( and the questions) continues...
www.iag.net/~vigg

[badgers]

RobertK the distance is a function of how the light is dispersed. For a simple lamp above the water, the higher up the more even the light. Also, the higher up the less intense the light will be. For some people raising the lamp reduces the heating effects.
ReefJunkie:The operating temp is lamp specific. This is why I believe Icecap can get more out of a specific bulb by "tuning" the ballast for a MH lamp. You know when the lamp is at its operating temp because the light will have its color. Not all dimming ballasts are electronic, but most are.
"I'm also assuming you're talking about Electronic MH ballast?" what I have said about MH thus far is applicable to both electronic or core&coil. But, it would be easier to "tune" an electronic ballast for a MH lamp IMO.
I called Perry about the ballast and he said it would be about 3 weeks before he could send me any test info on the ballast.
thank you for your time and have a good day

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I'm so skeptical, I can hardly believe it!

[ignatz]

badgers, Thank you very much for meeting the challenge thread. Great Information! I would like to chime in with some more questions here.

What is the difference between Metal Halide and Mercury Vapor?

Why does a Metal Halide bulb running on a Mercury Vapor ballast smell?

Could you help to explain how a hobbiest would know which fluorescent ballast to use with a particular bulb? For example, why does a ballast designed to run HO bulbs, run a PC bulb? I know that I can go to the Advanced website, and look up ballasts by giving specs, but I am confused as to what some of the terms are. (The site is having technical difficulties, or I would add some of the terms.)

Okay, that's it for now. I will add more later.

Thanks again,
~ignatz

[KW]

Hello,

I would like to add one more question to the list. OK, maybe two or three

I have M58 metal halide ballasts. I was thinking about using the GE bulbs mentioned in this thread. GE lists these bulbs as requiring M80 ballasts.

Is there much difference between M58 ballasts and M80 ballasts?

Currently, I have Iwasaki bulbs on the M58's and I know I need to either buy some H37 ballasts for the Iwaski bulbs or find some new bulbs.

After looking at some bulb and ballast info in appears that the Iwasaki 250 watt 6500K MH bulb with a H37 ballast is more efficient than the GE 250 watt 6000K MH bulb with a M80 ballast.

The H37 ballast has input wattage of 280 watts and the light output(with Iwasaki bulb) is 14,000 mean lumens with a rated life of 9,000 hrs. The M80 ballast has input wattage of 295 watts(I think) and the light output(with GE bulb) is 13,300 mean lumens with rated life of 10,000 hrs.

It seems counter intuitive that a bulb designed to covert MV to MH(Iwasaki) would be more efficient than a MH bulb(GE). Am I missing something?


Sorry for the ramblings. Is it obvious that I'm confused

ttyl,
KW

[Larry M]

badgers left today to go on a cruise and will not be back until Dec 13 or 14. The nerve of that guy!!

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Larry M

View a list of RC Member's websites at:
http://www.reefcentral.com/membersites.html

[Larry M]

Since there were some questions here regarding IceCap lighting, I have invited Andy Howard, President of IceCap to participate. We'll see what he has to say.


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Larry M

Northern Reef

[ASH]

I don't know if I should thank you for the invite. (It's less threatening
with badgers on vacation.) I agree there's a little much in the way of
factual overload in this thread. Regarding IceCap products I'd add the MH
ballasts use high F to create and maintain the arc constantly, a
conventional ballast runs at 60 to 120 Hz, turning on and off that many
times per second. IceCap also starts a lamp at < 1KV vs 3 to 5 KV in a
conventional ballast. Both differences should favor a longer lamp life with
our ballast. I'll rejoin tomorrow for ....

I find it hard to believe there's still a doubt about our VHO ballasts abilities with NO lamps.

Andy

[elvisdoc]

Hey Andy,
How about an electronic 400W MH ballast from IceCap? This would be a winner for sure.

Also, how about offering the ability to buy the electronic MH ballasts untuned, i.e. would run any bulb? The need to pick your bulb 'for all time' makes the decision to go with your MH products difficult at best. Also, how much is re-tuning, should one decide to buy your ballast and switch bulbs later?

Thanks for participating in this discussion.
Your 660 VHO has been runnning on one of my reefs flawlessly for years.

elvis

[ASH]

There are two projects ahead of a 400W-MH, at least. The 250-MHI (for the Iwasaki 250W 6.5K) is our brightest option we now offer. The next MH out will be a 150-MH with restart and other new features.

As far as the tuning issue, we are looking into a self-tuning ballast down the road. The differences between many (Most)175W and 250W MH bulbs is so small we could offer a small one-turn knob and cover most of them, but it always seemed like giving up on hitting 'the mark'. I've since learned the problem has to do with two different challenges. One is the variability in bulbs as only the automated bulb factories turn out cookie cutter, identical products. The other is bulb companies are free to change the formula without notice. (In addition, our own product varies due to minor fluctuations in parts...) Certain bulbs like the Iwasaki 250 are in a different class and use unique parts. Recently, in dealing for example the with the new Coralife imported 10K bulbs, we're finding a minor change (tuning) in the Iwasaki ballast will likely be the answer. For the immediate, we retune or upgrade to current specifications at no charge (except for a change to an Iwasaki ballast). Conventional ballasts and other electronic ballasts that mimic conventional ballasts but in an electronic form, are not as sensitive to these changes as they blast the lamps to life and run them differently also. IceCap uses a technology similar to how it lights fluorescent lamps involving feedback between the bulb and the ballast.

I'd like some feedback on the 'knob' idea. It's is an option that would be easy to put in place.

Andy

[hesaias]

man what a thread!
My Q is this,
Im going VHO soon(Icecap 660 w\2daylight 2 actinic bulbs) from NO( 3 36" twin bulb shop lights) I could get 1 400w MH and an Advance ballast cheaper and run 2 NO's with it, but Im worried about heat and too little light befor and after the MH goes off. This is over a 36"x12"x22" tank
Oh yeah Im gonna do dawn and dusk w 2 NO actinics for an hour before and after the VHOs come on and go off, is this sufficent?
is it true that after 8 hours all MH bulbs do is add heat to the water( ie. the light is still on, but all the work is done)

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hesaias

my homepage

[Larry M]

Andy--Why a 150w MH? It seems like there would be a lot more demand for a 400w electronic ballast.


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Larry M

Northern Reef

[elvisdoc]

Ash,
I agree. MUCH more demand for an eletronic 400W ballast. Blueline is introducing one this month and it will sell big, I would bet.

I think the tune knob is a great way to go, when can I get one with this?

If not, are you saying if I buy the Iwasaki 250W MH ballast and want to switch to 10K's down the road there would be a charge? How much? There is a new Aqualine Bushke 250W 10K bulb that is supposed to be great.

thanks,

elvis

[This message has been edited by elvisdoc (edited 12-04-1999).]

[RobertK]

Andy,
"I find it hard to believe there's still a doubt about our VHO ballasts abilities with NO lamps." Excuse me for being a beginner amongst all these experts when it comes to lighting and for not being familiar with your products. I think what I was really wanting to know is if an NO lamp running on the Icecap VHO ballast puts out the same amount of heat (and light) as a VHO bulb would.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Robert

[KW]

Andy,

Regarding the knob you mentioned, personally I would not be very interested in a 175/250 watt ballast.

I would be very interested in a ballast that could be user adjusted to a specific bulb. Just turn a knob to a specific setting for a specfic bulb. I don't know if this is possible but, I'm purchasing my third set of Advance ballasts. I had M80's switched to M58's and now I just bought H37's.

ttyl,
KW