Palytoxin Poisoning

[buy_baff]

Wow glad noone is blind from this! Well I must say I never realy worry to much about protecting myself when fragging zoas and palys. But you guys have freaked me out big time! My wife is a nurse so I think i'll have her bring me home some gloves!
Thanks for shareing your experence.

[MUCHO REEF]

Originally Posted by acerhigh

Thanks to everyone for the well wishes, I go back to the doctor on tuesday again this week. The eye still isn't 100% back to normal..... thinking there is probably some kind of permanent damage, though I don't know the extent.... It really doesn't bother me now, but I worry about the long term effects.....

Can't stress enough...... Please Use Caution!!!

Happy Reefing People!

Glad it's not bothering you Dan, but lets hope and pray there's no permanent damage. I'll check on you this week my friend. Hang tough and thanks for the update.

Mucho Reef

[g8gxp]

i just bought some frags from a local reefer who told me he grabbed a rock out one day, not realizing some zoas had grown on the underside. Somehow or other he squeezed it and ended up getting it directly in his eye. He said he was in the ER for 4 days where they drained 3 large bags of fluid from his eye. He says nowadays when fragging he wears full arm length thick gloves and a full face shield, and keeps a printed sheet detailing the specifics of zoa/paly toxins to take with him to the hospital. They had no idea what it was the first time, the doctor had to leave him and freakin go look it up and do research on it. Just goes to show how little is known about it.

[Dejavu]

This thread has been nominated for August's Thread of the Month! You may vote here. Good luck

[euromomtx]

such an important reminder! Thanks for posting this. It will definitely remind me to wash hands/be more careful.

[MUCHO REEF]

Fyi !!!!!!!!!

[jbm421]

Just wanted to say thanks for this thread it saved me. I have always known this could happen but just never figured it would happen to me. Last night I was going to make some frags but got on the computer and I rarely visit this site because I have a local site I usually visit but thought I would just look around. I seen this thread and decided it wasn't worth risking it so I put my safety glasses on and sure enough the first cut I made it squirted all over the right eye of my glasses and it wasn't just a couple drops. I am sure that if it wasn't for reading this thread when I did I would be in some serious trouble so THANKS AGAIN!!!!!

[chrishet]

Thx for Bumping this one Mucho...I never thought it would happen to me....but it did...ouch! Washing your hands is critical...and if you are fragging I would suggest eye protection. I didn't take pics..but my eye looks a lot like th OP. What was interesting is that the Dr. was aware of palytoxins and had a plan of action.

[acerhigh]

I'm really glad this thread has helped people. Kinda makes my stupidity worth something. As a long term update to this.. my sight in the affected eye is actually better than it was before now... but that eye fatigues quicker than my other eye. I will probably deal with that the rest of my life. Small price to pay to still have sight anyway! I hardly notice it anymore, but I will always have that constant reminder to wash my hands and wear safety glasses!

Take care,

Dan

[RokleM]

Editing title and probably sticky worthy. If anyone else has links or other feedback they want to add, go for it.

[Ranchero]

I recently got sick not too long ago...
I was fragging up a big colony of Zoas then started on with a Toadstool colony. I didnt wear gloves like I usually do but I used DAWN dish soap and washed the life out of my hands
That evening I started feeling ill..that night I was so sick it lasted for 13 hours straight.
I was finally able to make my way to the couch but it started in again and I couldnt keep any liquids down.
I was just about to go to the ER when I finally was able to drink something.

In my opinion even if you wash your hands with soap and water its too late becuase the 'stuff' has soaked into your skin or maybe a hang nail.
So now I wear gloves and a face mask when fragging

[Tradewinds]

What an eye opener! (No pun intended)

Excellent information. This post has me rethinking what to put in my tank. I'm already blind in one eye and sure don't want to take any risks when it comes to eyesight.

Is this type of poisoning/infection regulated to just Zoa's or can you have similar problems with other types of tank inhabitants such as hard/soft corals, macroalge or fish only tanks?

[ukguy]

heres another example where one of my fellow CORA members was fragging Nuclear Green and others and had a serious situation with poisoning ...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...+poison&page=3

[austinpetemo]

*edited by staff*

[dad1st]

Glad to here that you are doing better Dan.
I defiantly will change the way i handle corals.
Not to mention my wife is all over me like a cheap suit about it know.LOl

[XSharkboyX]

Dan, glad things turned around for you buddy! To this day i still feel terrible about it, and partially responsible. As i was walking out the door i thought to myself, maybe i should remind him to wash his hands... nah he will definately do it after i'm gone...
I will never assume again.

[ros_sco]

Well after 7 years of keeping zoanthids I managed to learn a valuable lesson yesterday. I have fragged ordinary zoas many times and after time, I too have become lax in taking precautions. The polyps that I was working with are Nuclear Greens, very similar to the Purple Deaths the OP was working with. These varieties secrete a mucous that I don't see from ordinary zoas. I was fragging as usual and subconsiously rubbed the corner of my right eye. Soon it started to feel like something was in it so I washed my hands and went to take my contact out, figuring I got an eyelash in it. The contact had adhered to my cornea. I had to pull it off much like when back in the day when we slept in them and it was dry in the morning. I thought it was weird but whatever, washed the contact off and put it back in. An hour later I couldn't handle it anymore and went to take the contact out and it was stuck again, took it out and put my glasses on.. Soon my vision in that eye was cloudy like looking through a thick fog and it was getting painful, more than just irritated like before. I finally went to the doctor and after putting fluorescein in it and viewing unde uv light, he determined that it was not the result of a corneal abrasion but some irritant. He determined at that point supportive therapy was indicated and I decided to forgo an antibiotic at that time due to it probably being an irritant rather than infection. When I went to bed it was very painful, and the lower lid was quite swollen but the cloudiness had gone. This morning it was mattered shut but the swelling was mostly gone and my vision is normal. At the visit, I mentioned palytoxin but after discussing my symptoms vs what has been reported we determined that it is possibly a different toxin but very strong nonetheless. Some medications used in the eye can manifest systemic side effects due to absorbtion through the conjunctiva and sinuses & GI tract through lacrimal duct drainage so it seems reasonable to conclude that if it was palytoxin, I would have had some systemic symptoms. This it a localized reaction that affected my eye, and my sinus on the right side which was running. Now, just about 24 hours later, the swelling is mostly gone, the eye is still red and mattering a bit and the pain is about 25 percent of what it was. If it is not substantially better by the end of the day I will start on antibotic eye drops as a precaution.
Bottom line, this genus of zoanthids seems to have some sort of powerful toxin / irritant that should not be underestimated.


6 hours - note the blister on the inner lower eyelid


9 hours lower lid swollen and eye discharging




18 hours - mattered shut upon awakening

[soybeanbaby]

goodness... thanks for the info... i'll make sure to wash my hand

[the droob]

Thats insane ! it has never occured to me that this might happen ,never heard of this or seen anyrthing like this before but I tell you now I WILL ALWAYS WASH MY HANDS ,by the way this really freaked me out as I'm legaly blind in one eye already,scary stuff dude!

[Jacwil]

Not palytoxin poisoning but still wasn't enjoyable...I always wear gloves now ;(

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1954411

[ros_sco]

My eye improved a little every day and this morning was back to normal and I was able to wear contacts again today. No apparent permanent damage. Whew.

[gavgab007]

Thanks for all the insight.. I am a new newbie 1st year.. Zoas are one of my favorites. I will keep all your horror stories in mind..

[quicktater]

Dude I have been doing this reef propagation thing for over ten years and found your experience shocking. This could be me easily! I have terrible habits of not using eye protection not gloves. I have simply been lucky. Thanks for sharing your experience, I will make some changes. TODAY!

[doug6644]

I've dodged a shot of fluid from fragging Zoas. Guess I better use more caution, versus my split second reaction time (dumb luck) next time. Thanks for the experiences, although not pleasant. BTW, I met a person (will remain anonymous) who, everytime she/he fragged, got sick, and had to be put on antibiotics. Said reacted with bad sinus infections, and it was like had the flu everytime, they ended up getting out of the hobby because of it. Maybe they were allergic to all, and all that comes with the hobby, but something else to be aware of.

[ZoaLover]

Thanks to everyone who is joining this thread. I must change my bad habit of cutting zoas and other corals. Man, I was lucky enough to not getting poison when handling them without glasses and gloves, and I know the luck does not always come to me. I should have these pictures on my wet saw as a reminder for the safeness.