Linking multiple tanks - Page 2

Somrschool · 08/04/2007, 10:57 AM

Guys, this is SO fantastic.

1. I have to admit something REALLY foolish: I don't know what the value of a sump is. I *assume* that a sump is what it is in a house: a tank of water, basically. But... well... why? Is it a "mixing bowl" in the current discussion of multi-tank setups? Is it like "the place where all the water dumps to be sterilized and renewed and then pumped back to the tank" or is there more going on that I don't understand?

2. Why "baffle a sump" as expressed by mbbuna above? So that you can sterilize, skim, etc. in compartments?

Obviously, we are not on your level, but we're learning fast, so please keep those cards and letters coming!

mbbuna · 08/04/2007, 12:54 PM

a sump is pretty much a place to keep all your equipment and it adds a little extra water volume. it keeps the main tank free of heaters and hang on skimmers ect...

baffles make compartments and help control micro bubbles. ideally you want the dirtiest water going into the skimmer. so you make you first compartment just big enough to fit your skimmer and have the out put from your skimmer spill into the second compartment. the baffle on the first compartment will also keep the water level so the skimmer skims consistently. you want all the water comming from the tanks going into the first compartment.

Somrschool · 08/04/2007, 01:17 PM

OK, that REALLY helps.

Continuing my blonde streak here:

So now: what about live sand? If we want a RDLS bed in a Monster trash can (that has the same anerobic pocket as a plenum, right? We had a plenum five years ago and werent thrilled with it, but it was ok), two questions:

1. Why can't it go in a compartment of the sump?
2. Is there any reason we can't go to the (nearby) Atlantic Ocean and scoop some out, purify it, and use it? Keep in mind, we're just restarting... we've got nothing to kill right now.

And, 3.) while I have you, mbbuna, why the huge protein skimmer you recommended above? (The ATI Bubble Master 250). It's for 500 gallons, right? We're talking a combined volume of 180 for all three tanks right now. Was that just in case? Do we need to double all volumes on equipment "just to make sure"?

4. 'Cause, we must say, the size of it triggered another small brain explosion and now we're talking about a bigger fish-heavy tank in the kitchen, since the footprint of the space is 4' X2' X *whatever*... it can be as tall as possible. So, my final question for this post: how tall is too tall for a fish-centered tank?

PS I went to your blog, but (no offence!) it's unreadable to me. The busy background makes it so that I simply can't make out the words. Can you consider simplifying?

mbbuna · 08/04/2007, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Somrschool

PS I went to your blog, but (no offence!) it's unreadable to me. The busy background makes it so that I simply can't make out the words. Can you consider simplifying?

it is kinda hard to read. my first attempt at a blog. still playing with it.

1- you can put a DSB in the sump if you want. the second compartment would be a good place for it.you have to remember that for a DSB to be effective you will need at least 2square feet of service area and it should be at least 6" deep.

2- you could, but it would be easier to go to home depot and get sand for $4

3- you are going to have to tanks with a high bioload. in order to keep water quality good enough to be successful with keeping corals in the same system you will need good oversized equipment. plus i dont trust manufactures ratings. i have about 450gal i have a skimmer rated for 1200gal

4. tall skinny tanks are hard to aquascape

Somrschool · 08/04/2007, 02:33 PM

From "2 above: Sorry... feeling REALLY dumb here... don't SW tanks need LIVE sand and isn't the purpose for them to have all those little critters???

Also, six inches deep over an anarobic pocket, like, 2" deep, right?

#3: I get it. Thanks.

#4: True, but they only need that once!

AND, for a bonus question: why drill the Sump? (You wrote above: buy a plain 75g or 90g tank and put your own glass baffles in it and have it drilled for the pump you are going to use. but first you must decide on the equipment you want, and design the sump around it.)

I'm picturing a square tank, with three (???) compartments: the first has a skimmer (which only sits in up to 8" water, so... how do I make the floor higher because...), then a DSB, then ... ? what? a UV filter on bioballs? Or does the live rock replace the wet-dry/bio balls of yore?

(How'm I don', teach? THANKS again for all the free advice! Are there any links to designing a sump that you could give me so I don't have to keep bugging you with beginner stuff?)

mbbuna · 08/04/2007, 04:03 PM

do they "need" live sand, no.

this area is very debatable. personal preference and different methodology come into this and there have been many big ugly threads here about the topic.

i will just tell you how my tank is set up.

our 180 is bare bottom (no substrate, yes the photo shows substrate, old photo

). the 75 is BB also, the 24 has 2" of semi coarse sand for the anemone. the first part of our sump has 6"of sugar fine sand.

"why drill a sump?" you can use a submersible pump if you want. however most of them produce a lot of heat that is transferred to the water, use more electricity, and require more maintenance. the pump i recommended is not submersible, relatively inexpensive, low Watt draw and if it is throttled back(chocked) will use even less watts.

the live rock replaces the bio balls. you can raise the skimmer very easly with a few peices of PVC, eggcrate and zip ties

dont worry, your not bugging me

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/gt/index.php

mbbuna · 08/04/2007, 04:13 PM

i want to go back to the skimmer i linked to you earlier.

that skimmer people realy seem to love. i dont know if you thought the price was high but this is the skimmer the it was "copied" from

http://www.captiveoceans.com/mm5/mer...e=250_Internal

sorry about the two links, no photo on the other one

http://www.finsreef.com/product.php?...cat=262&page=1

look at the price tag on that thing

the one i link is a heck of a skimmer at less then half the price

mbbuna · 08/04/2007, 04:22 PM

do you have a basement? if you do you might want to consider putting the sump there

Somrschool · 08/04/2007, 04:24 PM

Wow! That DOES put skimmers in perspective.

No, but we do have a mud room between the two tanks.

08/04/2007, 10:57 AM	#26
Somrschool Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: WV Posts: 111	Guys, this is SO fantastic. 1. I have to admit something REALLY foolish: I don't know what the value of a sump is. I assume that a sump is what it is in a house: a tank of water, basically. But... well... why? Is it a "mixing bowl" in the current discussion of multi-tank setups? Is it like "the place where all the water dumps to be sterilized and renewed and then pumped back to the tank" or is there more going on that I don't understand? 2. Why "baffle a sump" as expressed by mbbuna above? So that you can sterilize, skim, etc. in compartments? Obviously, we are not on your level, but we're learning fast, so please keep those cards and letters coming! __________________ Marcia Current Tank Info: Planning a 2-sided build in the future; nothing right now, sadly.

08/04/2007, 01:17 PM	#28
Somrschool Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: WV Posts: 111	OK, that REALLY helps. Continuing my blonde streak here: So now: what about live sand? If we want a RDLS bed in a Monster trash can (that has the same anerobic pocket as a plenum, right? We had a plenum five years ago and werent thrilled with it, but it was ok), two questions: 1. Why can't it go in a compartment of the sump? 2. Is there any reason we can't go to the (nearby) Atlantic Ocean and scoop some out, purify it, and use it? Keep in mind, we're just restarting... we've got nothing to kill right now. And, 3.) while I have you, mbbuna, why the huge protein skimmer you recommended above? (The ATI Bubble Master 250). It's for 500 gallons, right? We're talking a combined volume of 180 for all three tanks right now. Was that just in case? Do we need to double all volumes on equipment "just to make sure"? 4. 'Cause, we must say, the size of it triggered another small brain explosion and now we're talking about a bigger fish-heavy tank in the kitchen, since the footprint of the space is 4' X2' X whatever... it can be as tall as possible. So, my final question for this post: how tall is too tall for a fish-centered tank? PS I went to your blog, but (no offence!) it's unreadable to me. The busy background makes it so that I simply can't make out the words. Can you consider simplifying? __________________ Marcia Current Tank Info: Planning a 2-sided build in the future; nothing right now, sadly. Last edited by Somrschool; 08/04/2007 at 01:50 PM.

08/04/2007, 02:33 PM	#30
Somrschool Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: WV Posts: 111	From "2 above: Sorry... feeling REALLY dumb here... don't SW tanks need LIVE sand and isn't the purpose for them to have all those little critters??? Also, six inches deep over an anarobic pocket, like, 2" deep, right? #3: I get it. Thanks. #4: True, but they only need that once! AND, for a bonus question: why drill the Sump? (You wrote above: buy a plain 75g or 90g tank and put your own glass baffles in it and have it drilled for the pump you are going to use. but first you must decide on the equipment you want, and design the sump around it.) I'm picturing a square tank, with three (???) compartments: the first has a skimmer (which only sits in up to 8" water, so... how do I make the floor higher because...), then a DSB, then ... ? what? a UV filter on bioballs? Or does the live rock replace the wet-dry/bio balls of yore? (How'm I don', teach? THANKS again for all the free advice! Are there any links to designing a sump that you could give me so I don't have to keep bugging you with beginner stuff?) __________________ Marcia Current Tank Info: Planning a 2-sided build in the future; nothing right now, sadly. Last edited by Somrschool; 08/04/2007 at 02:40 PM.

08/04/2007, 04:24 PM	#34
Somrschool Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: WV Posts: 111	Wow! That DOES put skimmers in perspective. No, but we do have a mud room between the two tanks. __________________ Marcia Current Tank Info: Planning a 2-sided build in the future; nothing right now, sadly.

08/04/2007, 12:54 PM	#27
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	a sump is pretty much a place to keep all your equipment and it adds a little extra water volume. it keeps the main tank free of heaters and hang on skimmers ect... baffles make compartments and help control micro bubbles. ideally you want the dirtiest water going into the skimmer. so you make you first compartment just big enough to fit your skimmer and have the out put from your skimmer spill into the second compartment. the baffle on the first compartment will also keep the water level so the skimmer skims consistently. you want all the water comming from the tanks going into the first compartment.

08/04/2007, 04:03 PM	#31
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	do they "need" live sand, no. this area is very debatable. personal preference and different methodology come into this and there have been many big ugly threads here about the topic. i will just tell you how my tank is set up. our 180 is bare bottom (no substrate, yes the photo shows substrate, old photo ). the 75 is BB also, the 24 has 2" of semi coarse sand for the anemone. the first part of our sump has 6"of sugar fine sand. "why drill a sump?" you can use a submersible pump if you want. however most of them produce a lot of heat that is transferred to the water, use more electricity, and require more maintenance. the pump i recommended is not submersible, relatively inexpensive, low Watt draw and if it is throttled back(chocked) will use even less watts. the live rock replaces the bio balls. you can raise the skimmer very easly with a few peices of PVC, eggcrate and zip ties dont worry, your not bugging me http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-01/gt/index.php

08/04/2007, 04:13 PM	#32
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	i want to go back to the skimmer i linked to you earlier. that skimmer people realy seem to love. i dont know if you thought the price was high but this is the skimmer the it was "copied" from http://www.captiveoceans.com/mm5/mer...e=250_Internal sorry about the two links, no photo on the other one http://www.finsreef.com/product.php?...cat=262&page=1 look at the price tag on that thing the one i link is a heck of a skimmer at less then half the price

08/04/2007, 04:22 PM	#33
mbbuna Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,847	do you have a basement? if you do you might want to consider putting the sump there