Big Angels In A Reef Tank - Page 2

Pierce · 10/25/2007, 09:50 AM

Does anyone else have personal experience with angels in a reef? What happened?

john rochon · 10/25/2007, 10:12 AM

4 large angels can clean out a tank of zoos,shrooms, etc in probaly a day or day. you could not grow enough zoanthids etc to use it as a food source.

MY experience with angles both large and of the pygmy family is that they all picked at something and/or killed one coral or another.

Pierce · 10/25/2007, 10:31 AM

Exactly. Im not going to put exotics in there. Just basic easy to find corals along with other animals. Anemones can fill a lot of space and give a tank that "reef" look. Ever see a rose anemone in person? Their awesome. Fiji toadstools are a beautiful yellow and can fill out nicely. Frogspawn and hammers are grown by everyone it seems.
Maybe Ill try a few stonys over time, not sure yet. Spaghetti leathers are nice and come in various colors. The possibilities are endless. If my angels eat the LPS I put in there, Im not going to keep putting them in there. Even without any LPS or SPS it would still look incredible.
Regardless what some here think, I have done a lot of planning for this.

By the way, in 5 years of saltwater keeping, I have lost a whopping 2 fish and 1 was to a serpent star. The other was a copperband which are hit and miss. I take extremely good care of my fish. Almost too good. Drives my wife crazy.

Pierce · 10/25/2007, 10:41 AM

That was stupid on my part. I was saying "exactly" to Aadlers comments

DamnPepShrimp · 10/25/2007, 10:52 AM

I am going to try a similiar setup, but with a smaller tank and less angels. I am going to set up my 110 as a reef, and get a very small juvi emperor, since they only eat algae in the young stages. Hopefully I can have him learn that corals aren't food, especially if I feed him enough. My suggestion is go for it, but add the corals first, I think you will have a better chance that way. Are you planning on adding all as juvi's? I'd lean more toward softies, leathers, shrooms etc, and anemones are a good idea, maybe get clowns to defend them.

Pierce · 10/25/2007, 12:45 PM

I was planning on getting the angels used to my food then adding the corals 1 type at a time and see if they go for it.
What is your reason for adding the corals first?
Id like to get them all as young adults

DamnPepShrimp · 10/25/2007, 12:57 PM

Adding the angels into an established aquarium seems to yield the best results from what I've seen. If you add in the coral to an established angel's territory, it will mostlikely go for it, especially just because it is new. It's really hit or miss either way, just trying to better the options in any possible way. Also, the smaller the angel the better, just because of their diet, they tend to be coral and sponge eaters when they get older. When do you expect this project to take off? Is the tank built yet?

Sheol · 10/25/2007, 12:57 PM

Actually, there is a thread down in the SPS Corals forum with a tank that has a gorgeous Reef tank ( worthy of TOTM BTW) who has a small collection of angels with his corals. The corals except myabe one are not picked on and eaten. He has a P. chrysurus, a pair of Regals, a Goldflake, & some others.
This CAN be done, but it takes a large tank, careful selection, & open eyes..

Matthew

DamnPepShrimp · 10/25/2007, 01:08 PM

Yeah, HBtank posted the link on the first page. The tank is amazing, but the angels are all questionable with corals. Pierce's selction of angels are definite coral eaters, except the emperor. Again, this is one of those topics were there is no answer, just to go ahead and do it and be prepared to make some changes.

Pierce · 10/25/2007, 01:35 PM

Tank has been up and running for a while, 6 months or so with about a dozen fish or so and 600 lbs live rock from a tank that was 10 yrs old.
Got an Emperor on order now and gonna qt him for 2 months or so in a 55 gallon .

Sheol · 10/26/2007, 09:06 AM

Aside from coral issues, I think your REAL risks will be aggression between your angels. H. passer is possibly the MOST AGGRESSIVE angel there is. And Queens aren't far behind. P. annularis is one of the more aggressive Pomacanthus angelfish. I fear scales will fly. Maybe not, as the Japanese seem to keep angel community tanks all the time, but like I said your choices aren't the best personality wise..
Not picking, just saying..

Matthew

jerryz · 10/26/2007, 10:24 AM

The anenome as food is an issue with me. They are truly being decimated from the wild. Using them as a food source just contributes to that problem.

hottuna · 10/26/2007, 10:49 AM

I have a wealthy buddy with a 550 gal reef tank...he just puts whatever appeals to him in there= no matter what =survival of the fittest...and what dies- he chucks and replaces it...
It's disgusting to me....but some people got money to burn and they just dont care.

DamnPepShrimp · 10/26/2007, 10:59 AM

hottuna, that is horrible!

I would hope pierce has the decency to control that problem, if things are getting eaten or picked on. To remove what angels don't work out and find better homes for them, same for corals that get eaten, if possible, remove them to a better location/home and don't put the same corals or fish back into the situation. I too think you will have problems with the angels, but time will tell. All those fish I have seen and they all have had tempers.

Pierce · 10/26/2007, 01:10 PM

Not planning on feeding my fish anemones. Never said that. If they like certain readily available corals such as frogspawn or hammers, or even zoos, I may continue to grow it in a grow out tank and feed as a treat to make them happy.
Also will qt all angels for two months and at least as long as it takes to get them to hand feed so if I get a raging coral eaters, I can scoop em out.
Everything I am going to do will be trial and error. I expect some failure, but also some success.
Dont worry everybody, Im not Mr evil out to destroy the ocean!

mlandrigan · 11/08/2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hottuna
I have a wealthy buddy with a 550 gal reef tank...he just puts whatever appeals to him in there= no matter what =survival of the fittest...and what dies- he chucks and replaces it...
It's disgusting to me....but some people got money to burn and they just dont care.

Why is he your buddy then??

morishidle · 11/08/2007, 01:26 PM

I have kept many angels in a reef with little problems but i have also had reef safe fish eat corals, the angels i have kept are Passer,Golden,Emporer,Flame,Flagfin,Banded, and Majestic, I have also kept some triggers to Clown,Cross Hatch, Queen and Undulated so if all of you say it cant be done are wrong it can be. It isnt just that easy to do . And you will eventually have some problems if you go away and dont feed them for a week .

SARBoy · 11/11/2007, 05:13 PM

I have a juv Emp in my Reef with LSP, SPS, Mush, Leather, Xenia. Doesn't touch a thing. Wish he would eat my Xenia. I've had him for neally 6 months and bourght him at 1 1/2". Now 3" and getting fat. I'm expecting him to start to eat all soft and poss LPS as he gets bigger, this is not a prob as i am in the prosses of setting up a 300g+ system which will be mostly SPS. If you want to keep large angels i think they do better in a reef setup but don't expect to be keeping soft or many LPS. Again set up with corals first and then add the fish for the reasons in the prevous posts. Go with SPS or FOWLR for success IMO.

m2434 · 11/12/2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aadler
I don't understand the problem with keeping corals for food.

Well for one - tank crash... Corals contain all sorts of toxins, when a coral dies, it can release them all at once. This can cause others to die and your end up with toxic soup. Try it an see how long before you get a chain reaction killing off everything...

I bought a yellow toadstool once. I put it into a thriving tank and it died. I was hoping it wasn't really dead, and left it for a few days hoping it would recover. I lost several other corals within the next few weeks and it took me a LONG time to get my tank back to where it was. All the parameters read fine, but we don't test for toxins...

atzak · 11/12/2007, 10:14 AM

I would add the fish as juveniles, add them at the same time, avoid lps corals, especially brains, avoid zo's. I had an emperor for quite a while in my reef, he cleaned out the zo's and went after lps right away, I got rid of the lps, he ate all the zo's, then I had no problems until he changed into his adult colors, then he ate everything except mushrooms and sinularas

glassbox-design · 11/12/2007, 11:11 AM

with SPS i've kept asfur, majestic, imperator, singapore, multibarred, pymgy, flame, and juvi french and all did minimal damage. PE on SPS was only at night. The juvi french devloped a taste for zoas as he got older and was pulled.

10/26/2007, 10:24 AM	#37
jerryz Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 953	The anenome as food is an issue with me. They are truly being decimated from the wild. Using them as a food source just contributes to that problem. __________________ When in doubt ride a bike. Current Tank Info: 75 Gal Freshwater Discus Tank, 20G Nano, 125 Reef

10/26/2007, 10:49 AM	#38
hottuna Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,248	I have a wealthy buddy with a 550 gal reef tank...he just puts whatever appeals to him in there= no matter what =survival of the fittest...and what dies- he chucks and replaces it... It's disgusting to me....but some people got money to burn and they just dont care. __________________ HotTuna

11/08/2007, 01:26 PM	#42
morishidle Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 97	wrong I have kept many angels in a reef with little problems but i have also had reef safe fish eat corals, the angels i have kept are Passer,Golden,Emporer,Flame,Flagfin,Banded, and Majestic, I have also kept some triggers to Clown,Cross Hatch, Queen and Undulated so if all of you say it cant be done are wrong it can be. It isnt just that easy to do . And you will eventually have some problems if you go away and dont feed them for a week .

11/11/2007, 05:13 PM	#43
SARBoy Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Scotland Posts: 125	I have a juv Emp in my Reef with LSP, SPS, Mush, Leather, Xenia. Doesn't touch a thing. Wish he would eat my Xenia. I've had him for neally 6 months and bourght him at 1 1/2". Now 3" and getting fat. I'm expecting him to start to eat all soft and poss LPS as he gets bigger, this is not a prob as i am in the prosses of setting up a 300g+ system which will be mostly SPS. If you want to keep large angels i think they do better in a reef setup but don't expect to be keeping soft or many LPS. Again set up with corals first and then add the fish for the reasons in the prevous posts. Go with SPS or FOWLR for success IMO. __________________ Help our Search and Rescue crews, GET LOST! Fly it like you stole it. Current Tank Info: 135ltr nano

11/12/2007, 10:14 AM	#45
atzak Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Jupiter NC Posts: 1,191	I would add the fish as juveniles, add them at the same time, avoid lps corals, especially brains, avoid zo's. I had an emperor for quite a while in my reef, he cleaned out the zo's and went after lps right away, I got rid of the lps, he ate all the zo's, then I had no problems until he changed into his adult colors, then he ate everything except mushrooms and sinularas __________________ smokers suck butts Current Tank Info: 210 reef, 55 gallon planted fresh water

10/25/2007, 09:50 AM	#26
Pierce Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 40	Does anyone else have personal experience with angels in a reef? What happened?

10/25/2007, 10:12 AM	#27
john rochon Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: canada Posts: 2,082	4 large angels can clean out a tank of zoos,shrooms, etc in probaly a day or day. you could not grow enough zoanthids etc to use it as a food source. MY experience with angles both large and of the pygmy family is that they all picked at something and/or killed one coral or another.

10/25/2007, 10:31 AM	#28
Pierce Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 40	Exactly. Im not going to put exotics in there. Just basic easy to find corals along with other animals. Anemones can fill a lot of space and give a tank that "reef" look. Ever see a rose anemone in person? Their awesome. Fiji toadstools are a beautiful yellow and can fill out nicely. Frogspawn and hammers are grown by everyone it seems. Maybe Ill try a few stonys over time, not sure yet. Spaghetti leathers are nice and come in various colors. The possibilities are endless. If my angels eat the LPS I put in there, Im not going to keep putting them in there. Even without any LPS or SPS it would still look incredible. Regardless what some here think, I have done a lot of planning for this. By the way, in 5 years of saltwater keeping, I have lost a whopping 2 fish and 1 was to a serpent star. The other was a copperband which are hit and miss. I take extremely good care of my fish. Almost too good. Drives my wife crazy.

10/25/2007, 10:41 AM	#29
Pierce Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 40	That was stupid on my part. I was saying "exactly" to Aadlers comments

10/25/2007, 10:52 AM	#30
DamnPepShrimp Moved On Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,152	I am going to try a similiar setup, but with a smaller tank and less angels. I am going to set up my 110 as a reef, and get a very small juvi emperor, since they only eat algae in the young stages. Hopefully I can have him learn that corals aren't food, especially if I feed him enough. My suggestion is go for it, but add the corals first, I think you will have a better chance that way. Are you planning on adding all as juvi's? I'd lean more toward softies, leathers, shrooms etc, and anemones are a good idea, maybe get clowns to defend them.

10/25/2007, 12:45 PM	#31
Pierce Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 40	I was planning on getting the angels used to my food then adding the corals 1 type at a time and see if they go for it. What is your reason for adding the corals first? Id like to get them all as young adults

10/25/2007, 12:57 PM	#32
DamnPepShrimp Moved On Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,152	Adding the angels into an established aquarium seems to yield the best results from what I've seen. If you add in the coral to an established angel's territory, it will mostlikely go for it, especially just because it is new. It's really hit or miss either way, just trying to better the options in any possible way. Also, the smaller the angel the better, just because of their diet, they tend to be coral and sponge eaters when they get older. When do you expect this project to take off? Is the tank built yet?

10/25/2007, 12:57 PM	#33
Sheol Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Waxahachie, Tx. Posts: 3,610	Actually, there is a thread down in the SPS Corals forum with a tank that has a gorgeous Reef tank ( worthy of TOTM BTW) who has a small collection of angels with his corals. The corals except myabe one are not picked on and eaten. He has a P. chrysurus, a pair of Regals, a Goldflake, & some others. This CAN be done, but it takes a large tank, careful selection, & open eyes.. Matthew

10/25/2007, 01:08 PM	#34
DamnPepShrimp Moved On Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,152	Yeah, HBtank posted the link on the first page. The tank is amazing, but the angels are all questionable with corals. Pierce's selction of angels are definite coral eaters, except the emperor. Again, this is one of those topics were there is no answer, just to go ahead and do it and be prepared to make some changes.

10/25/2007, 01:35 PM	#35
Pierce Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 40	Tank has been up and running for a while, 6 months or so with about a dozen fish or so and 600 lbs live rock from a tank that was 10 yrs old. Got an Emperor on order now and gonna qt him for 2 months or so in a 55 gallon .

10/26/2007, 09:06 AM	#36
Sheol Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Waxahachie, Tx. Posts: 3,610	Aside from coral issues, I think your REAL risks will be aggression between your angels. H. passer is possibly the MOST AGGRESSIVE angel there is. And Queens aren't far behind. P. annularis is one of the more aggressive Pomacanthus angelfish. I fear scales will fly. Maybe not, as the Japanese seem to keep angel community tanks all the time, but like I said your choices aren't the best personality wise.. Not picking, just saying.. Matthew

10/26/2007, 10:59 AM	#39
DamnPepShrimp Moved On Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,152	hottuna, that is horrible! I would hope pierce has the decency to control that problem, if things are getting eaten or picked on. To remove what angels don't work out and find better homes for them, same for corals that get eaten, if possible, remove them to a better location/home and don't put the same corals or fish back into the situation. I too think you will have problems with the angels, but time will tell. All those fish I have seen and they all have had tempers.

10/26/2007, 01:10 PM	#40
Pierce Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 40	Not planning on feeding my fish anemones. Never said that. If they like certain readily available corals such as frogspawn or hammers, or even zoos, I may continue to grow it in a grow out tank and feed as a treat to make them happy. Also will qt all angels for two months and at least as long as it takes to get them to hand feed so if I get a raging coral eaters, I can scoop em out. Everything I am going to do will be trial and error. I expect some failure, but also some success. Dont worry everybody, Im not Mr evil out to destroy the ocean!

11/12/2007, 11:11 AM	#46
glassbox-design Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: SF Posts: 3,041	with SPS i've kept asfur, majestic, imperator, singapore, multibarred, pymgy, flame, and juvi french and all did minimal damage. PE on SPS was only at night. The juvi french devloped a taste for zoas as he got older and was pulled. __________________ GLASSBOXDESIGN the modern reef blog LEDs are a 50,000 hr investment. Choose wisely. Current Tank Info: ...a new glassbox is coming