Algae !?? AHH Pics help! - Page 2

Shnabbles · 12/08/2007, 05:32 PM

I would need a school of sand sifting gobies for all this sand bed

reefman77 · 12/08/2007, 05:47 PM

I had a single sandsifting goby in my 120 back when I had a sandbed and it did a great job of keeping the sand bed algea free

melev · 12/08/2007, 08:19 PM

You definitely need to clean out your holding tank. You don't want any slime, sediment or impurities in the container. Using bleach, mix up 10:1 solution with water, and wipe it down clean. Rinse it well, and leave it outside to air out for a day. Fill it up with more water, and if you feel the need, add a dechlorinator. Let it soak for an hour or so, then dump it out. Rinse and air dry.

Ready to go, nice and clean.

Shnabbles · 12/08/2007, 09:03 PM

Since i hardly have any nitrates (nobody has none)do you believe the 4 TDS coming from my holding tank could be giving me this problem?

Are phosphates not detected as TDS's? Meaning i could have high phosphates and still have 0 TDS?

SCIFI_3D_zoo · 12/08/2007, 10:49 PM

I can't believe there's not a really good Reef Keeping article on algae/bacteria/slime/diatoms. Maybe somebody has a link?

I don't think? Phosphate is separate from TDS. I think your TDS is measuring this and all other solids. Phosphates are definitely a source for growing crap like this too. You should have a Phos test.. but if I'm right and TDS is 0 you may not have to test for it individually all the time. There's definitely a nutrient problem in your tank.

Maybe you are feeding too much too. There's more too it than whether you feed once a day or not too. Depends on how much you put in ... once a day? How many fish are you feeding too? Maybe it's only what they can eat in a minute or two.. but if you have a lot of fish you could have a lot of waste. And is it all actually being eaten? Is any just settling on the rock/sand.

There's something in your tank that is feeding this stuff. Just gotta figure out what it is. I don't know much about the type of plastic used for your RO/DI water.

melev · 12/08/2007, 11:41 PM

No, 4 TDS is not a big deal. I've used 3 - 7 TDS water many times, and my tank never had a problem. Anything under 10 TDS is usually good, although many prefer to keep their water at 0.

You should test your RO/DI water for nitrate and phosphate, as well as ammonia and chlorine. Any of these can pass through a unit if their levels are unusually elevated. Hopefully all of your tests result in 0.

Shnabbles · 12/09/2007, 10:17 AM

Can you have very low nitrates, but high nutrients?

I am working on ordering a phosphate reactor? now and im going to get an extra 1 for running carbon.

I should be skimming as wet as possible right?

Im getting alot of skimmate and its very dark wet, but very dark.

Craig Lambert · 12/09/2007, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shnabbles
Can you have very low nitrates, but high nutrients?

I am working on ordering a phosphate reactor? now and im going to get an extra 1 for running carbon.

I should be skimming as wet as possible right?

Im getting alot of skimmate and its very dark wet, but very dark.

You can have 0 Nitrates but still have a phosphate problem. I experienced this myself. There isn't much point in using a phosphate test kit either because almost all of them only test inorganic phophate, and not organic phosphate. One way to judge phosphates is by how often your glass develops a film on it and is need of cleaning.

I think a phosban reactor is a great idea. I would also recommend warner marine phosar as your media. Begin with about 1/2 the recommended amount and set it up with very low flow so the very top layer of media barely tumbles. Also rinse it thoroughly by running 5-10G of RODI, or tank water when doing a water change through the reactor. Once you've set it up you will also want to monitor your alkalinity as some people have reported a drop in alk when adding a phosban reactor. Over a few months this could make a big difference for you.

yellowwatchmen · 12/09/2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thizzelle686
Have you considered a sand sifting goby?

That would clean the sand but you would still have the Diatoms. That would not cure it. You have to find the original problem. Does that make any sense?

Frick-n-Frags · 12/09/2007, 12:57 PM

is the sandbed 3 years old? it may be full.
that stuff seems to really be raging on the sand, so it would be a fair guess to consider that's where the nutrient sink is.

Shnabbles · 12/09/2007, 01:05 PM

tank is only 8 months old and sand is only 1 - 1 1/2 inches deep

Frick-n-Frags · 12/09/2007, 01:08 PM

that may make even more sense actually

datablitz · 12/09/2007, 01:10 PM

what is your dhk, ca, and salinity? was your light new when you got it? im not sure how long t-5s last but i know old bulbs can promote cyano

SCIFI_3D_zoo · 12/09/2007, 01:17 PM

What's a normal glass algae build-up time then?

Adding carbon in a bag, altho an ancient method, is supposed to be a binding method to reduce phosphate right? I thought I read overactive carbon filtering can be harmful too. So you should do it every other month for a week or so?

Quote:

Originally posted by Craig Lambert
One way to judge phosphates is by how often your glass develops a film on it and is need of cleaning.

Shnabbles · 12/13/2007, 06:48 PM

After lights going back on there is still some cyano on the sand.. its not as thick though... all of my snails, and cucumber seem very lethargic.

i have 3 two little fishies phosban reactors coming in hopefully tomorrow.. i will run phosban in 2 and carbon in the 3rd...

parts of my chaeto either have the cyano on it or are starting to turn brown.. i pick those peices off and trash them every day but the chaeto at least seems to be growing and has some very dark green spots

ernestlives · 12/13/2007, 07:40 PM

A diamond goby would do wonders for the sand, But not sure about the rocks...Did you overdose any additives??

Craig Lambert · 12/18/2007, 10:53 AM

It would be a good idea to run 1/2 the recommended amount of phosphate media when getting started, (and be sure to rinse it well by running 5-10G of rodi, or tank water from a water change through the reactor). Also, monitor your Alkalinity daily as you begin using it as you may experience a drop in Alkalinity. Run the water slowly through the reactor so the top layer of media barely tumbles.

mrkalel · 12/18/2007, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melev
So you think it is just a bunch of diatoms? Do you have a clean up crew? And by any chance, did you recently add some type of Phosban product to your tank?

A quick follow up on that comment... I did notice after I put some phosban product in my sump I noticed an increase of the same problem on the sand as well bubbles in my hair algea... whats the relationship Marc?

melev · 12/18/2007, 03:02 PM

It's been a while since I posted that, but I believe I was thinking it was a diatom bloom due to the increased metal content in the water.

Shnabbles · 12/18/2007, 03:17 PM

melev i got the 3 two little phishies phosban reactors got 2 hooked up running phosban and the 3rd running carbon

how long do you think it will take to see some light at the end of this tunnel?

melev · 12/18/2007, 03:53 PM

I know you've been battling this for a while now, well before you posted about it.

How much phosban are you using currently? How often do you change the carbon?

And what are your most recent water test results?

Shnabbles · 12/18/2007, 04:20 PM

im using enough phosban to treat 300 gallons which is pretty close to my total volume... i just started running the carbon, its fresh

nitrates 0 or less then 10

melev · 12/18/2007, 04:38 PM

And what is your PO4 reading?

I'm sorry if you answered this already, but I didn't memorize our previous discussion and don't really want to read 45 messages again.

Do you have any critters in the tank to keep the sand turned over? Do you still believe this is diatoms?

m2434 · 12/18/2007, 05:32 PM

Most algae seems to go away quickly (within 1 to 2 weeks) when using GFO however, cyano may be persistent. This could be for a number of reasons.. it can utilize insoluble iron such as iron-hydroxide, so it probably is not limited by iron when using GFO. It can fix ammonia from N2 gas, so inorganic nitrogen is not really limiting. it may store phosphate well, so decreasing the phosphate level may not kill it, but could prevent it from growing. And finally, it may be an effective scavenger of the limited phosphate remaining. oh wait, one more.. nothing really eats it!

In your case, I think the GFO will help, but you may want to siphon out the remaining cyano, or turn the lights off for a while, after the GFO has been running, if it's still there. The GFO should do a good job at preventing more growth, but probably won't get rid of whats there already.

Good luck!

Shnabbles · 12/18/2007, 05:39 PM

The only thing in the sand stirring is are a few nassarius snails.. the sand bed in the display is only 1 -2 inches at most.... I do not have a P04 test to measure them.

I am now under the impression it is a type of cyano algae it looks just like it only its not as long haired and is more brown... it blows off rocks really easy but doesnt stay in big clumps... i no longer think it is diatoms.

12/09/2007, 12:57 PM	#35
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	is the sandbed 3 years old? it may be full. that stuff seems to really be raging on the sand, so it would be a fair guess to consider that's where the nutrient sink is. __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

12/09/2007, 01:08 PM	#37
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	that may make even more sense actually __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

12/18/2007, 10:53 AM	#42
Craig Lambert Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,897	It would be a good idea to run 1/2 the recommended amount of phosphate media when getting started, (and be sure to rinse it well by running 5-10G of rodi, or tank water from a water change through the reactor). Also, monitor your Alkalinity daily as you begin using it as you may experience a drop in Alkalinity. Run the water slowly through the reactor so the top layer of media barely tumbles. __________________ "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer." Current Tank Info: 75G Tank, 29G Sump, 100lbs LR, AquaC EV-180, Iwaki MD-20RT return Tunze nano streams 4X54 t-5/Icecap Ballast & SLR's 2x110 vho actinic

12/18/2007, 05:32 PM	#49
m2434 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 2,171	Most algae seems to go away quickly (within 1 to 2 weeks) when using GFO however, cyano may be persistent. This could be for a number of reasons.. it can utilize insoluble iron such as iron-hydroxide, so it probably is not limited by iron when using GFO. It can fix ammonia from N2 gas, so inorganic nitrogen is not really limiting. it may store phosphate well, so decreasing the phosphate level may not kill it, but could prevent it from growing. And finally, it may be an effective scavenger of the limited phosphate remaining. oh wait, one more.. nothing really eats it! In your case, I think the GFO will help, but you may want to siphon out the remaining cyano, or turn the lights off for a while, after the GFO has been running, if it's still there. The GFO should do a good job at preventing more growth, but probably won't get rid of whats there already. Good luck! __________________ Our imagination is stretched to the utmost, not, as in fiction, to imagine things which are not really there, but just to comprehend those things which are there. ~Richard Feynman

12/08/2007, 05:32 PM	#26
Shnabbles Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Clayton, DE Posts: 1,316	I would need a school of sand sifting gobies for all this sand bed

12/08/2007, 05:47 PM	#27
reefman77 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: naperville, IL Posts: 729	I had a single sandsifting goby in my 120 back when I had a sandbed and it did a great job of keeping the sand bed algea free

12/08/2007, 08:19 PM	#28
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	You definitely need to clean out your holding tank. You don't want any slime, sediment or impurities in the container. Using bleach, mix up 10:1 solution with water, and wipe it down clean. Rinse it well, and leave it outside to air out for a day. Fill it up with more water, and if you feel the need, add a dechlorinator. Let it soak for an hour or so, then dump it out. Rinse and air dry. Ready to go, nice and clean.

12/08/2007, 09:03 PM	#29
Shnabbles Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Clayton, DE Posts: 1,316	Since i hardly have any nitrates (nobody has none)do you believe the 4 TDS coming from my holding tank could be giving me this problem? Are phosphates not detected as TDS's? Meaning i could have high phosphates and still have 0 TDS?

12/08/2007, 10:49 PM	#30
SCIFI_3D_zoo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sebring, Florida Posts: 1,072	I can't believe there's not a really good Reef Keeping article on algae/bacteria/slime/diatoms. Maybe somebody has a link? I don't think? Phosphate is separate from TDS. I think your TDS is measuring this and all other solids. Phosphates are definitely a source for growing crap like this too. You should have a Phos test.. but if I'm right and TDS is 0 you may not have to test for it individually all the time. There's definitely a nutrient problem in your tank. Maybe you are feeding too much too. There's more too it than whether you feed once a day or not too. Depends on how much you put in ... once a day? How many fish are you feeding too? Maybe it's only what they can eat in a minute or two.. but if you have a lot of fish you could have a lot of waste. And is it all actually being eaten? Is any just settling on the rock/sand. There's something in your tank that is feeding this stuff. Just gotta figure out what it is. I don't know much about the type of plastic used for your RO/DI water.

12/08/2007, 11:41 PM	#31
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	No, 4 TDS is not a big deal. I've used 3 - 7 TDS water many times, and my tank never had a problem. Anything under 10 TDS is usually good, although many prefer to keep their water at 0. You should test your RO/DI water for nitrate and phosphate, as well as ammonia and chlorine. Any of these can pass through a unit if their levels are unusually elevated. Hopefully all of your tests result in 0.

12/09/2007, 10:17 AM	#32
Shnabbles Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Clayton, DE Posts: 1,316	Can you have very low nitrates, but high nutrients? I am working on ordering a phosphate reactor? now and im going to get an extra 1 for running carbon. I should be skimming as wet as possible right? Im getting alot of skimmate and its very dark wet, but very dark.

12/09/2007, 01:05 PM	#36
Shnabbles Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Clayton, DE Posts: 1,316	tank is only 8 months old and sand is only 1 - 1 1/2 inches deep

12/09/2007, 01:10 PM	#38
datablitz Moved On Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Blacklick, Ohio Posts: 347	what is your dhk, ca, and salinity? was your light new when you got it? im not sure how long t-5s last but i know old bulbs can promote cyano

12/13/2007, 06:48 PM	#40
Shnabbles Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Clayton, DE Posts: 1,316	After lights going back on there is still some cyano on the sand.. its not as thick though... all of my snails, and cucumber seem very lethargic. i have 3 two little fishies phosban reactors coming in hopefully tomorrow.. i will run phosban in 2 and carbon in the 3rd... parts of my chaeto either have the cyano on it or are starting to turn brown.. i pick those peices off and trash them every day but the chaeto at least seems to be growing and has some very dark green spots

12/13/2007, 07:40 PM	#41
ernestlives Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 116	A diamond goby would do wonders for the sand, But not sure about the rocks...Did you overdose any additives??

12/18/2007, 03:02 PM	#44
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	It's been a while since I posted that, but I believe I was thinking it was a diatom bloom due to the increased metal content in the water.

12/18/2007, 03:17 PM	#45
Shnabbles Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Clayton, DE Posts: 1,316	melev i got the 3 two little phishies phosban reactors got 2 hooked up running phosban and the 3rd running carbon how long do you think it will take to see some light at the end of this tunnel?

12/18/2007, 03:53 PM	#46
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I know you've been battling this for a while now, well before you posted about it. How much phosban are you using currently? How often do you change the carbon? And what are your most recent water test results?

12/18/2007, 04:20 PM	#47
Shnabbles Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Clayton, DE Posts: 1,316	im using enough phosban to treat 300 gallons which is pretty close to my total volume... i just started running the carbon, its fresh nitrates 0 or less then 10

12/18/2007, 04:38 PM	#48
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	And what is your PO4 reading? I'm sorry if you answered this already, but I didn't memorize our previous discussion and don't really want to read 45 messages again. Do you have any critters in the tank to keep the sand turned over? Do you still believe this is diatoms?

12/18/2007, 05:39 PM	#50
Shnabbles Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Clayton, DE Posts: 1,316	The only thing in the sand stirring is are a few nassarius snails.. the sand bed in the display is only 1 -2 inches at most.... I do not have a P04 test to measure them. I am now under the impression it is a type of cyano algae it looks just like it only its not as long haired and is more brown... it blows off rocks really easy but doesnt stay in big clumps... i no longer think it is diatoms.