Rocks keep falling

[demonsp]

MB your all confused as this is the repley i was repleying to pardon my middle school education. Im not sure why you 2 are so quick to jump on me for trying to help a fellow reefer but as my mommy always said if you have nothing good to say then
profanity removed

Originally posted by TikiDan
I am well aware of the needs. I have been doing this for a little bit I am also building a closed loop with an oceans motions. And I have my eye on a pair of controllable Tunzes so flow shouldn't be a problem.

here is the link to my build thread.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...readid=1344280

[HBtank]

Originally posted by demonsp
His pic showed no powerheads and he said he was still in the build stage then it went to i have this and this.

Whene i say wavemaker im thinking of 2 powerheads alternating on and off to creat a wave like motion. They can be a usefull tool in the right hands but alone provide no benifit to actuall water circulation.

Flow provides the water with oxygen by surface exchange and wavemakers cant do it effeciantly.
Then your LR and LS will help convert nitrate and ammonia into harmless nitrogen but not without a good steady current.
Then with wavemakers you will have uneatin food ,fish waste and other debris collecting on the bottom and in ,on and around the LR which will cause nitrates but this take stime like months to yrs and by then you never even think its from low flow.
Also proper flow will retard algea growth.

You need to learn the basics first and they included good water circulation and not alternating current.

Demon, I repeatedly see you telling people incorrect information on water flow.

You really need to do some research before you continue to give advice on people setups. You are often just flat out wrong.

In this case, your advice was not even solicited. Quite frankly, you just seem confused. That picture was from a person helping the thread-starter with his rocks, and is a dry tank. You seemed to think it was the thread-starters tank... EVen when he said it was dry, you ignored him and decided he needed more advice. Whn he gave you his equipment, which is EXCELLENT, you tell him it is useless. I don't know where to start.....

You really do not seem do understand the topic of flow to the degree that you can start telling people anything about their setups. Especially when you do not seem to have an understanding of the equipment they are using.

I have actually seen you, just as here, tell people that Tunze setups on a controller have NO BENEFIT to flow in a tank. That is just ridiculous.

As I told you before, there is a small argument to be made that by utilizing a "wavemaker", you are cutting on your total turnover. And in many cases effectively cutting their GPH in half as they are only on half the time, but that is far from NOTHING. Not to mention that there is research that shows that oscillating current may be better than laminar.

As well as most controllers do NOT create a wave (AGAIN. READ SLOWLY. CONTROLLERS DO NOT CREATE A "WAVE"), only alternate in a fashion that makes more turbulence, which HAS been proven to be beneficial.

Demon, I usually do not feel the need to correct someone, as you seem to be trying to help people. But your comments on this subject are just flat out wrong and it seems that you have barely even researched the subject.

It also seems you barely even read topics or peoples posts as well, I have noticed this in other threads. You even admitted it before, in the thread on Vitamin C. All together it really is not helpful to people to just throw advice out there that you have little information on, and without really spending time reading peoples posts....

[demonsp]

I wasnt repleying to the original thread starter. And only help with flow from what i research and all the research shows me that a constant steady flow is best and a wave maker alone isnt enough. So if this is wrong then help me as i want to know.MB im just confused on the type of controller he mentioned.

[demonsp]

Oh and any information i responde with can be backed up by articles. But much as with many is from my experiance and not all tanks are the same.

[schigara]

Thank you HBtank,

I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. I have kept quiet for as long as I could but finally just had to say something.

Originally posted by HBtank
Demon, I repeatedly see you telling people incorrect information on water flow.

You really need to do some research before you continue to give advice on people setups. You are often just flat out wrong.

In this case, your advice was not even solicited. Quite frankly, you just seem confused. That picture was from a person helping the thread-starter with his rocks, and is a dry tank. You seemed to think it was the thread-starters tank... EVen when he said it was dry, you ignored him and decided he needed more advice. Whn he gave you his equipment, which is EXCELLENT, you tell him it is useless. I don't know where to start.....

You really do not seem do understand the topic of flow to the degree that you can start telling people anything about their setups

I have actually seen you, just as here, tell people that Tunze setups on a controller have NO BENEFIT to flow in a tank. That is just ridiculous.

As I told you before, there is a small argument to be made that by utilizing a wavemaker, you are cutting on your total turnover. And in many cases effectively cutting their GPH in half as they are only on half the time, but that is far from NOTHING. Not to mention that their is research that shows that oscillating current may be better than laminar. As well as most controllers do NOT create a wave, only alternate in a fashion that makes more turbulence, which HAS been proven to be beneficial.

Demon, I usually do not feel the need to correct someone, as you seem to be trying to help people. But your comments on this subject are just flat out wrong and it seems that you have barely even researched the subject. It seems you barely even read topics or peoples posts as well, I have noticed this in other threads. All together it really is not helpful to people.

[demonsp]

And the pics in my gallery are the first months and have switched to photobucket so if you want some current pics ide be more then happy.
And if you keep saying my information on flow is wrong but dont explain why you think that tells me nothing.

[HBtank]

That is the point, if you do not understand the equipment he is using, you really have no reason to comment further until you do.

I can not tell you everything regarding flow in one post, and do not have the time. You just need to research more, or wait until you have more experience.

What I can tell you... is you do not know enough on the topic to give people advice, especially in the manner you have. You are basically calling top of the line and proven equipment useless.

This is at least the fifth time I have seen you tell someone their 50+ GPH turnover system is useless.. All because they have a controller.

This is the stuff that the TOTM's are running on.

That is just silly.

[drdoolittle]

Originally posted by HBtank
That is the point, if you do not understand the equipment he is using, you really have no reason to comment further until you do.

And as I said, research flow some.

I can not tell you everything regarding flow in one post, and do not have the time. You just need to research more.

What I can tell you, is you do not know enough to give people advice.

This is at least the fifth time I have seen you tell someone their 50+ GPH turnover system is useless..

That is just silly.

Thanks HBtank.. Amen..

That exactly what I was thniking!!

[demonsp]

Thats fine. Turnover isnt really the same as circulation and instead of being so open in your response and quickness to jump on me it would take half the effort to actually add your 2 cents on that perticular response that the thread starter needed in the first place.

[schigara]

I don't like beating my head against a wall so I am done.

Originally posted by demonsp
a constant steady flow is best and a wave maker alone isnt enough.

[demonsp]

I feel the same with all your unability to even point out 1 repley that you think is wrong.This all started because i saw a pic of a tank with substrate and LR and water with no water flow and his response was its still in the build stage.So if you think a tank with that would be just fine without flow at any rate then im very sorry and have no idea what im talking about.This is the controller he mentioned and it is a wave maker , no?


http://www.aquabuys.com/page/aqb/PROD/j3/tz_cont_7095

[HBtank]

Demon, I have before. You never read it then, and I have little faith you will now.

Second, you now want to argue the definitions of "circulation" vs. "turnover". That is fine, and why we are here. But I have no time.

My problem is when you call someones 8500 GPH Tunze and OM system "useless" because you do not understand what the equipment does. That is what needs to stop.

Like I said, TOTM are built on these systems. If that is not enough proof that it is not worthless, than so be it, I can't convince you.

Second, the thread-starter needs to mounts some rocks, not add flow.. He needs some epoxy.

BTW, my tank runs on a "useless" Vortech system that have those evil "controllers"... And oh my, they are set on "pulse" mode, and I actually DO have a wave. They are my ONLY source of "circulation" Worthless...

I hate having to pull a "look at my tank", but... meh.. here it is.



Don't hold it against me if I ignore your advice and keep on using my "useless" wavemaker setup.

[demonsp]

I never said worthless. Thats fine but if you do use only a wave maker for water flow then in the future whene you have problems like algea or nitrate that water changes dont controll just remeber this thread.
But you all keep saying wrong ,wrong but havent pointed out whats wrong.

[black_kapre]

dudes just buy an sps/fish from your lfs, and listen to some bob morley and every little things, is gonna be alright, dont worry about.... an a$$ not knowing what the f hes talking about....................this hobby is to come people down, not get them all hype and stuff..... shot, it comes me down after shotting some one...........lol ....

[HBtank]

Lol @ nitrate and algae.

Thanks for the heads up.

[demonsp]

Wow very nice. But i did say they are a great tool in the right hands and i think you have them. My main point is in a new setup its better to go with what works and is proven. I see no fish in your tank and that fact plays a huge part of your succes.Like i said this started cause i say a tank with water and LR and sunbstrate and asked what he used for flow.His answer at first was nothing as its still in the build stage. Then after a few back and forths it changed to closed loop and tunze controller so after that everything changes. Tell me the bad advice and ill show a thread or two to back me up.Thats all i ask.

[drdoolittle]

Here a pic of my useless wavemakers..

[HBtank]

Originally posted by demonsp
I feel the same with all your unability to even point out 1 repley that you think is wrong.This all started because i saw a pic of a tank with substrate and LR and water with no water flow and his response was its still in the build stage.So if you think a tank with that would be just fine without flow at any rate then im very sorry and have no idea what im talking about.This is the controller he mentioned and it is a wave maker , no?


http://www.aquabuys.com/page/aqb/PROD/j3/tz_cont_7095

Dude, his tank is DRY. No water. No Aqua. none. nadda. zip.

Seriously, try reading posts...

I am done.

[flyyyguy]

to the OP.....

here is another concept for mounting your rocks so they will never slip as well as provide free flow underneath. the rods are not glued in plce so you can shape the reef however you want. No drilling required here...you just gotta make the lift

material required 1/2" acrylic scrap and some 3/4" acrylic rod. the teeth in the rod grip your rock like glue, no drilling required.

I do soemthing quite a bit more elaborate on my latest build using acrylic rods as well.........but it required lots of drilling.

this is simple. throw the rock down and it isnt sliding anyywhere nor is any amount of sand shifting by any critter going to budge it. 1" of sand covers the frame although I have done something similar on a bb set up using starboard as the frame that holds the rods

ps- OM units rock. I run 8 ways on both of my systems

[drdoolittle]

6 controllable tunzes..
2-6100 on a seaswirls
2-6055 on a WavySea
2-6200 mounted.

All controller by Tunze7095

still think its useless?

[demonsp]

Ok ,Show me the quote that says useless. You all need to calm down. And tell me to read i think you all need to.

[schigara]

I just took some aspirin so I am up for one more.

I think you mean, "inability to even point out 1 reply that you think is wrong".

THE PERSON YOU REPLIED TO FIRST HAD NO WATER IN THE TANK!!. There was sand and base rock in the tank and the lights were on. Can you not differentiate between a tank with water and one without water?

No one mentioned or even implied having a tank filled with water and with no flow, other than you overshooting with what you thought was a tank filled with water when it wasn't.

Dude, just stop and re read what you wrote.

Originally posted by demonsp
I feel the same with all your unability to even point out 1 repley that you think is wrong.This all started because i saw a pic of a tank with substrate and LR and water with no water flow and his response was its still in the build stage.So if you think a tank with that would be just fine without flow at any rate then im very sorry and have no idea what im talking about.This is the controller he mentioned and it is a wave maker , no?


http://www.aquabuys.com/page/aqb/PROD/j3/tz_cont_7095

[black_kapre]

stumpy08.......... to answer your ?........... get a rod from tap plastic and drill the rocks............. it works
left side

middle

right side

[black_kapre]

the hole tank..

[HBtank]

Originally posted by demonsp
I see no fish in your tank and that fact plays a huge part of your succes.

actually, I have 12 fish. And my high bioload and constant feeding is a huge part of my success.

Demon, this is part of the problem, you think you have all the answers without almost any information. ..... Your first assumption about my tank was 100% wrong.

just an example.