new guy

[ugluk]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned live rock for the filtration! Also if a sump and fuge sounds a bit daunting for you (as it was me) you can get a HOB refugium, which IMO is one of the best things I have for my tank. The live rock is going to cost you a lot of $ though. Search using base rock and seeding it with live rock, much cheaper and eventually just as effective.

[DheereCrossing]

I wasn't even getting to the rock/sand yet... If the discussion about the mechanical parts you want is over, yep - the filtration will come from biology: housed in live rock and sand with good water movement - that's really it.

[maluskeeter]

yeah i heard live rock was expensive...but its something i probably need, how much cured live rock for a 55 gallon tank is sufficient for filtration?

im planning to supplement external filter, protein skimmer and canister filter or refugium (HOB?) with the live rock

just trying to get all my filtration figured before i move to lights!

[EricButler]

BRO!

Don't do that combo that you found on ebay. Half of that price listed for that combo is for the skimmer and it's crap. Go with a nice Magnum 350 canister with dual bio wheel (cleaning is super easy even though you need to do every other week and the bio wheels will give you some agitation on the surface) or a Rena canister. You won't have to worry about nitrates if you take care of your filter.

A sump is nice, but I think a canister is much more practical for beginners (like us). Once you get a handle on your tank and the space required for all your supplies, you may then consider switching to a sump. You can find a quality canister on ebay for $110. I found mine for slightly less and it's awesome (power hasn't gone out yet)!

[DheereCrossing]

Originally posted by maluskeeter
yeah i heard live rock was expensive...but its something i probably need, how much cured live rock for a 55 gallon tank is sufficient for filtration?

im planning to supplement external filter, protein skimmer and canister filter or refugium (HOB?) with the live rock

just trying to get all my filtration figured before i move to lights!

Actually, the external filters and such will supplement the live rock! That's your main filtration source. Aim for about 1 pound per gallon. To save some cash, you can go with 2/3 dry, dead, base rock and 1/3 cured, pretty, live rock.

Fill the tank 1/2 way with the saltwater, put in the rock, add your live sand, fill your external filters/skimmers with saltwater. Fill the tank up the rest of the way with more saltwater. Set your lights to be on for 1/2 day, start your filtration and let everything run for a month. Top off the water level daily with fresh r/o water to make up for evaporation.

Do not use tap water to top off the tank or to mix your saltwater. It will cause all types of problems. Use reverse osmosis/deionized water.

Start using your test kits after a few weeks. Once the ammonia and nitrite are reading 0, salinity reads around 1.024 sg and temp about 79dF you can add your first inverts. (snails, crabs, worms...)

You will see many processes happen - algae blooms, diatoms, cloudy water... it's all normal - don't add medications to try and fix it, just let it all run it's course - be very patient. Don't expect to add any fish for a few months.

[D to the P]

Don't make any harsh discisions on filtration yet before you read up about each type, that book I recommend you will explain them all very simply and weighs the pros and cons.
I think you will find that sumps are very simple (even though some people make them look complicated) and very beneficial.

Do not got with the the magnum 350, it is a POS that is made of cheap plastic because marineland cheapend them so people would actually buy it but now they just break and crack and the bio wheels get a messed up with salt creep and gunk and you have to clean them often.
Think about it, if you had a sump you could put your protein skimmer down there, you heater for the aquarium could go down there, you would have more water for your system, you can add more and different types of filtration because there is generally plenty of room, and all you would have hanging off the back is a hang on the back overflow.
But don't get caught up in all the discussion just yet. It might be overwhelming. You need to just start of with the basics. You can always PM if you want to and I can try to explain some things if you are getting stuck on something.
One of the things I hear most whether here on RC or at the store I work at was, gosh I wish I would have just done it that way the first time. This applies to filtration, lights, and other aspects of the general set up. If you take your time, focus on one thing at a time, and ask plenty of questions we can try to make sure you aren't doing the retrospective "why didn't I just do that?".

Always here to help so just ask away.

[maluskeeter]

thanks for everyone's opinions..i really value each and everything as i take steps towards making this 55 gallon reef simple and sweet

i think i will go with a canister filter and see how it goes for a few weeks and then set up a sump...with that being said, what does everyone think of the 304 Fluval Canister Filter? i have someone selling it for $50 (used, but they say its 2 months old)

[D to the P]

There is no reason to wait a few weeks to set up a sump. your tank will be either just finishing its cycle or in the middle of it in just a few weeks. If you want to save money, and keep it simple than slow down, do some research, and build/buy a sump.
If you really want to go with a canister filter, I would go with something bigger than the 304. I would recommend a Rena Filstar xp3, if you can find one for cheap. If not, then just build a sump for like 60 bucks (one of us could even draw the exact plan for you and tell you exactly what to get and why you need it).

[HankB]

Originally posted by ugluk
I'm suprised no one has mentioned live rock for the filtration!

Likewise, I'm surprised that no one has asked him if he plans for fish only (as it seems to be) Fish Only With Live Rock (FOWLR) or a full blown reef with corals and such. Doesn't that factor into filtration choices (not to mention lighting.)

Oh, and
To Reef Central

-hank

[maluskeeter]

i want to build a reef system with corals and anemones...

i really like the sump idea, i just need more time to figure things out..but i really want to give the canister filter a shot since im a beginner..i want to start cycling within the next few weeks then around june start adding inverts/fish...so i wanted to purchase a canister now, especially that fluval 304 for $50, but like stated above it is too small right? its just a really good price..hehe

[maluskeeter]

alright..well i got pics of the skimmer finally and it is a berlin skimmer but it says prizm on the top corner of it, so stay away from it right?

what makes the prizm a bad skimmer anyways?

also d to the p, the fluval 304 is rated for 70 gallons, is it still considered small for my 55? (http://www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/rev-f304.htm)

[maluskeeter]

Originally posted by D to the P
Don't make any harsh discisions on filtration yet before you read up about each type, that book I recommend you will explain them all very simply and weighs the pros and cons.
I think you will find that sumps are very simple (even though some people make them look complicated) and very beneficial.

Do not got with the the magnum 350, it is a POS that is made of cheap plastic because marineland cheapend them so people would actually buy it but now they just break and crack and the bio wheels get a messed up with salt creep and gunk and you have to clean them often.
Think about it, if you had a sump you could put your protein skimmer down there, you heater for the aquarium could go down there, you would have more water for your system, you can add more and different types of filtration because there is generally plenty of room, and all you would have hanging off the back is a hang on the back overflow.
But don't get caught up in all the discussion just yet. It might be overwhelming. You need to just start of with the basics. You can always PM if you want to and I can try to explain some things if you are getting stuck on something.
One of the things I hear most whether here on RC or at the store I work at was, gosh I wish I would have just done it that way the first time. This applies to filtration, lights, and other aspects of the general set up. If you take your time, focus on one thing at a time, and ask plenty of questions we can try to make sure you aren't doing the retrospective "why didn't I just do that?".

Always here to help so just ask away.

for the sump, where can i look to find the basics? im planning to get that book soon (just cant find it at the local library )
but, is there some kind of small basic design i can follow or you guys can put simple pics of yalls? i just want something to eliminate the high cost of this canister or I will just get that fluval 304 that he is offering me for $50, dont know which way to go

[HankB]

Originally posted by maluskeeter
i want to build a reef system with corals and anemones...

That's cool because that is what interests us. But we're considering a smaller (relative to yours) all in one so you're approaching the limits of my knowledge (which has been gleaned from studying the forums.)

My understanding - and I'll leave it to others with more experience to correct me - is that the primary filter in this sort of tank is Live Rock (LR.) Bacteria on it convert ammonia to nitrite and finally nitrate in a process called nitrification. (AKA the nitrogen cycle.) Cycling the tank is the process by which these bacteria develop and reach equilibrium with your animal load. Then you need some way to get rid of the Nitrates. That can take place through denitrification (I think) under anerobic conditions in a Deep Sand Bed (DSB) or consumed by macro-algae - often one named chaeto - in a sump. Some of this is also removed with a protein skimmer, though I don't really know how that fits into the nitrogen cycle. In smaller aquariums Nitrates can be kept low with frequent partial water changes.

I'm not sure how the cannister filter fits in with this.

This is definitely an area you need to research thoroughly.

Good luck!

-hank

[maluskeeter]

thanks for the advice hank..i too have been extensively reading, this forum has an extensive wealth of knowledge and theres so much material out there that has yet to be touched yet...i figured that the live rocks are the primary option of filtration, and skimmers and canister/sump just complement that...

since i need to do more research on a sump (anyone can give me info on how to start building like a 10 gallon sump?) in the meantime i wanted to just to a FOWLR tank and let it run until june, then i should be ready to make the sump and add inverts, is this a stupid idea?

i was weary of the fact that adding corals to the fish tank could be damaging to the fish..not sure though...

[D to the P]

I know the box says its up to 70 gallons, but you can't go off of that, trust me it is not enough. Just forget the cannister all together. I know you are just excited to get this tank set up and going, but you still have more reading to do. Its fine if you want to start with fish, and then eventually add corals down the line as long as you've picked fish that are reef safe. that being said I wouldn't recommend having anything in your tank until late may in order to make sure that your tank is cycled and you have a handle on keeping your tanks parameters in order. Start making a list of things you need to get in the future and then it will be easier to know how far along you are in getting your tank started. I understand that there will be deals along the way, and some of them will be worth taking, but not all of them. This is a hobby with a large initial cost, but after that, if you do it right, you are only spending money on livestock and stuff for the livestock (food, supplements, etc.). I will PM you, I feel it might be too extensive for a post on a thread.

[maluskeeter]

i think your right..i am getting a lil excited..a sump is a good alternative..i look forward to your PM..this forum is great