Coral Questions !

[Jordan_Oreo]

everything seems to be doing fine now except 3 pieces , 1 is frogspawn i belive and the other 2 are yellowstar pollups here are pics i think the frogspawn is going to die. it use to be big and nice but i had to treat my tank for ich so i removed all coral and the lps held on to it when the treatment was done etc i got the coral back in shitty condish they even killed my anemoe but since i got the frog spawn back it seems dead.

here are pics of the coral
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...5/SNV80253.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...5/SNV80252.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...5/SNV80251.jpg

[sabbath]

2nd one looks like sun coral to me. These are not a easy coral.Here is some care info.
http://www.melevsreef.com/suncoral.html

You need to get your params right too. Mag, Alk & Ca.

[Jordan_Oreo]

its not sun coral i dont think i found a pic on the net of what it looked like when it was open
http://home.wi.rr.com/bluefishes/blu...r%20polyps.jpg

[tankdvr]

Originally posted by Jordan_Oreo
everything seems to be doing fine now except 3 pieces , 1 is frogspawn i belive and the other 2 are yellowstar pollups here are pics i think the frogspawn is going to die. it use to be big and nice but i had to treat my tank for ich so i removed all coral and the lps held on to it when the treatment was done etc i got the coral back in shitty condish they even killed my anemoe but since i got the frog spawn back it seems dead.

I think this may be the problem. How did you treat the tank? I hope it wasn't copper.

[Jordan_Oreo]

it wasnt pure copper but it had copper in it, but i did a really big water change and let it run for 2 days and tested for copper daiy before i added my coral back in the tests said the copper was gone when i put it back in

[Mykel Obvious]

If it had copper in it, you are most likely going to lose all your inverts... and will need a new tank, sand, rock if you want to keep any alive in the future

JMO and YYMV, but copper should never come in contact with anything in a reef tank, because it is nearly impossible to remove all traces from the system

[Jordan_Oreo]

damit , the people at the lps told me other wise . but what would some side affects be to this ? all my snails etc are fine but like could it cause alot of alge or somthing ?

[Mykel Obvious]

Salifert test kit has this to say: "Strongly chelated copper will only be partly or not at all detected." So it depends on which test kit and what type of copper is in the treatment as to whether it will even show up on the test at all...

Did you remove all your snails when you did the treatment? I'd be surprised if any were alive if you didn't... It might just be that the corals are more sensitive and are the first to go...

You said only three pieces looked bad... any pics of the corals that still look good? It could be two separate issues (badly handled at the LFS and then a trace of copper)... I'm not a chemist, but everything I've ever read says "never, ever put copper in a tank you want to ever keep inverts in", so I'm sticking with that

Algae is caused by too many nutrients in the system (phosphates and nitrates) Copper just kills inverts, but dying inverts can raise the nutrient levels and lead to algae growth...

All your 'pods and worms and other little creeping critters are gone if you put copper in the tank with the live rock/sand... it is recommended to always set up a hospital/quarantine tank and treat all fish outside of the reef... and put all fish in a 4 week quarantine before adding them to the display tank to prevent any unwanted pests from entering the system...

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, so do a search for "quarantine" and one for "copper" as well...

Someone else chime in if you have anymore ideas for Jordan_Oreo

Good Luck and keep us informed

HTH a little at least,

[Jordan_Oreo]

ill get pics tonight but my coral has seemed to be turning around for the best , the snails and stuff were removed but i will def do some reading on this tonight

[dismayed]

Wow, that really sucks dude. I agree with Obvious, copper can linger in your tank at undetectable levels. It's not good. And who knows what these fools did to your corals at their shop while they had them.

I'm not sure what to do. Hopefully some of the old timers will see this thread and comment.

Just for future information, don't ever put anything in your tank that has copper in it, even a tiny bit. If you were trying to treat your fish for Ich if you take all of your fish out of your tank and leave your tank devoid of fish for 4 to 6 weeks that is guaranteed to kill off all Ich parasites in your tank because they can't live without a fish to host on. What most people will do is take their fish out of their main tank and put it in a small 'hospital' tank where they dose the fish with copper. Most of the time you have to keep the fish in quarantine a month anyway, so by the time he's ready to go back to the main tank the Ich should be dead in your main tank.

Also its cheaper that way because you don't have to buy as much copper to dose a smaller tank.

Post the name of the medicine you used, I'm curious now.

[tankdvr]

You don't have the replace the tank, silicone does not really retain copper. You will most likely have to replace the sand and rocks though. Both of them will absorb copper and I'm pretty sure they will gradually release it back into the tank. Check on the chemistry forum for all the info, but I'm pretty sure what I wrote down is correct.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news

[tmz]

As noted above, treatments should be done outside the display tank, particularly copper.It will be asborbed by the rock and sand and leach back later and is deadly to invertebrates. It's not vey good for fish either except at prescribed levels for a set period of time,usually 14 days. Every tank will have some copper from food or salt mixes but not excess. You will not be able to test for it very accurately and it will linger making your sand and liverock risky. In addition to water changes run copius amounts of copper for the forseeable future and try some poly pad. It turns a bluish hue as it removes copper.

As for the lfs, I won't comment or conclude that they hurt your corals since, I don't know the details of movement and acclimation or the contiuuity of temperature salinity a ph in the moves. The copper would definately hrt them though.

It is much better to remove the fish. Treat them in a separate tank and leave your display fishless for at least 6 weeks to 3 months than it is to move corals and anemones.

[Jordan_Oreo]

damit, the people at the lfs told me the i didnt have to take out the rock or anything just coral and invetrs the name of the stuff that i used was "cupramine" says its less toxic on the bottel if that can help. that poly pad what exactly is it ?

[dismayed]

Well the Seachem Cupramine website FAQ has the following to say. It seems kind of misleading to me. They are using what I call weasel words... they don't say they it is safe to use on a reef system with coral they say you are less likely to have problems than with other forms of copper. Hmmm. Well you could buy the Cuprasorb stuff the FAQ talks about and see how it goes.


Q: I have added Cupramine to my reef tank. I pulled all of my corals out and treated it once. I was told that if I added copper to my tank that I wouldn't be able to put my corals back in and that the copper would contaminate my filter bed and stick to the silicone seams. Is that correct and how should I remove the Cupramine from my tank? And should I treat it a second time?
A: Our Cupramine is the only copper based remedy of it's kind on the market as this technology is very unique to our company. This copper based remedy is complexed to an organic (amine), hence the name Cupramine. This complex is very stable in water, meaning it is the least likely of all the copper remedies to "stick" to a gravel bed or live rock. I am not aware of any copper that sticks to silicon seals. It is also very easy to remove with carbon as this copper remedy is complexed to an organic and carbon readily removes organic material. We also manufacture Cuprisorb for copper removal. This product is very aggressive at removing copper based remedies (as well as other heavy metals). This resin will change colors as it removes copper and is regenerable. Continue to regenerate and use this product until you do not see the resin change color for a week. By then, most/all of the copper should be removed from your system. You can make sure of this by testing with our MultiTest Copper test kit.
Considering that you have already added Cupramine to your reef aquarium, I would definitely follow the instructions (2 doses 2 days apart). The instructions are based on gallons (1 ml per 10 gallons). Be sure to estimate the correct amount of gallons in your aquarium for proper dosing. If your aquarium is a typical reef with a lot of rock, you have displaced some of the gallons of your aquarium. Given that you have dosed your aquarium once with Cupramine, I would test the level of copper to figure out what level you currently have. Ex., If you have dosed 3 ml and come out with .25 ppm of copper, you know dosing another 3 ml will raise the level another .25 ppm for a total of .50 ppm, which is the recommended concentration for this product. Keep in mind that this product is still effective as low as .20 ppm and generally safe for fish up to .80 ppm, but we recommend .50 ppm as the ideal level.
You can also use GarlicGuard in the food to help enhance the immune system of the fish. If the fish have trouble eating, this product will also act as an appetite stimulant. GarlicGuard can be used in conjunction with Cupramine.

[Jordan_Oreo]

that statment said that carbon would remove it from the water , is that true ? and would it work in my case ?

[Hal]

Carbon WILL remove copper. So will Poly Filter pads.

I've dumped snails into my QT after having run copper in the QT and the snails did fine. Lived for many months actually. I only used carbon to take out the copper. Keep in mind I didn't have any LR or sand in my QT, though.

Don't despair. Just keep a fresh supply of carbon in your tank for awhile.

[tmz]

As noted earlier copper and poly pad work well but you'll need to run them for months since some copper is likely in/on your rocks and sand and will leach back overtime.. Curisorb,the product noted by seachem, I'm told is claimed to be even more effective .

[Mykel Obvious]

Originally posted by dismayed
... weasel words... .

+1

[ReefTECK]

Dude NOOO never ever ever copper. Your LFS guy= moron!