Wife brought home fish with ich...HELP!!!

[kraze3]

i meant just QT the goby not all those fish.

[Freed]

All those fish are now at great risk of having ich and is very possible ich is in the tank but not yet on the fish and can more than likely infect the remaining fish now.

[rldavisou]

The frag tank is starting to sound like my best option. What will happen to my sand bed in the main tank?

The sump oviously would be moved to the frag tank, but my sump has fuge built in that has over 60 lbs of sand in it, about 7" deep. It's only been set up for a few months, is it ok to scoop that sand out to move it?

Compared to my other options, how effective will hypo be at treating the disease? Am I better off with a rubbermaid so I can dose copper?

[Freed]

Hypo is very effective if performed properly. It's proven and documented just as copper is. It is possible that the pockets of water in the sand could contain water that doesn't reach hypo levels and therefore ich that is in the sand could possibly survive the hypo. This is why bare bottom QT with hypo is preferred.

[rldavisou]

As an aside, this is the longest thread I've ever started. First time I've gotten to two pages!

So, I want to take a second to thank everyone for their input.

[Freed]

Bare bottom is also preferred for vacuuming out any detritus and ich cysts that lay on the bottom of the tank.

[rldavisou]

I'm not looking forward to moving all that sand. All told, I have about 120 lbs of sand and gravel in my system, all of which would need to be moved.


My sump is made from 1/8" acrylic, could that withstand the pressure of being moved with 60 lbs of sand in one compartment?

[rldavisou]

A thought just occured to me:

How fast can I lower the salinity? I know you're supposed to raise it very slowly, but it is ok to do the drop all at once? Over a few days?

[Freed]

Not all at once. Osmotic shock can kill the fish. Over a 2-3 day period will do just fine.

[Icefire]

Got a pick of the YWG? They aren't that prone to ich and can have speckle of sand on them all the time.

Also there is no such thing as an ICH free tank. If fish are healthy, the parasite don't get them. Some people run Hypo for months and they still get ich on tang sometime.

[rldavisou]

So, just to verify, I can lower the salinity over a few days, say, by thursday I can have it down to 1.009. That would be ok? Or do I need to do it .001 per day, like you do when you raise it?

[Freed]

You can have it down to 1.009 by Tuesday or Wed if you like.

[kraze3]

The salinity can be brought down faster than that. Its bringing the salinity up that needs to be done very slowly. I have put 3 fish thorugh hypo in my hobby experience with no ill effects.

Just my 2 cents but Im not for treating fish for something they MIGHT have. Yes it is possible that the fish in your tank will get ich. Its also very possible they dont. I would wait and keep a very close eye on the tank for the next motnh or so. If you see anything then you can go thru this hypo process. Otherwise you may not need to go this route. This will also give you more time to plan your treatment and course of attack if you do notice ich in the tank. I have seen fish completely covered in ich that recover. If you see one two spots in the future you should have more than enough time to save the fish. I wouldn't go crazy yet its only been a day or two. Just my opinion though, not trying to **** anyone off or start any arguments

Here is a link on hypo:
http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/hyposalinity.html

Good luck in whatever you choose to do

[kraze3]

two more links on ich

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

http://www.chucksaddiction.com/ich.html

[rldavisou]

Krase, you won't upset anyone by sharing information. Thanks for contributing.

Please, everyone following this thread, read this:

I've been wondering if I'm overreacting, too. I can't really get a pic of the YWG. I tried several times, but the spots never really show up. Don't know why, but he WILL NOT turn the right direction for me to get a pic. He's in a bag even, but actively refuses to face the right direction. What's concerning me are two white spots on his body that are about 1/2 mm in diameter and stick out from the surface of the skin. The are not his regular spots, but I'm only 75% sure they're ich. He had one on his tail last night, but it's gone. I'm almost positive they're not sand because he's been in the bag for about 12 hours now, but it's always a posibility.

Does anyone else think I'm overreacting, or am being smart to act this early?

[cham]

Originally posted by kraze3
The ich parasite does not drop off the fish at night. It drops off when its in the drop off stage of its cycle.

Not according to reefkeeping magazine.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

There is another interesting observation I found in my investigations concerning the biology of Cryptocaryon irritans. Mature trophonts leave the host and tomites exit the theront/cyst in the dark (Yoshinaga & Dickerson, 1994). Imagine if you will, a fish that randomly acquires a single Ich parasite. After a couple of days when the trophont is well fed, it prepares to drop off its host but waits for the environmental trigger of darkness. Meanwhile, the fish prepares to "bed down" in its favorite hiding spot in the aquarium; the same fish occupy the same spot practically every night. Now, the trophont leaves the fish, encysts, and begins to multiply. Several days to weeks go by and that same fish returns to its same spot at night, only this time there are hundreds of infectious theronts seeking out a host/victim in the same area. I am sure some of you are thinking that this is absolutely diabolical. Others can appreciate the simple beauty of this plan. To me, it is just another reminder of how remarkable evolution and adaptation is.

[kraze3]

This is from what you copied
"After a couple of days when the trophont is well fed, it prepares to drop off its host but waits for the environmental trigger of darkness. "

This is also copied from your link
" The trophont will spend three to seven days (depending on temperature) feeding on the fish. After that, the trophont leaves the fish and becomes what is called a protomont..."

Yes it says it drops off at night but not everytime there is darkness. It feeds before it drops then it continues on with the rest of its life cycle. Im not trying to argue here all im saying is it is possible that if the goby had ich, that the ich did not get into the water. It is also possible that it did. I was only suggesting maybe waiting and watching before going thru the measures. If ina few weeks he notices some ich now he can do whatever treatment he thinks is neccesary. If he doesnt see anything then he saved himself some trouble.
Again, this is just my opinion.

[synofreak]

Leave the tank alone. If your other fish are "comfortable" and healthy, they will not contract the parasite. Letting it run its coarse is your best solution. Keep both newly aquired in QT.

[rldavisou]

I've got the goby in QT, but I can't catch the royal gramma without taking all 150 lbs of live rock out, most with coral attatched. Petco said they won't take the fish back under any circumstances. I'm starting to lower the salinity in the QT, and starting to slowly raise the temp. I have seen a spot on my Sohal tang, but I don't think it's ich because it's only been 48 hours, and this is a big white spot. My sohal sometimes gets scratches from the rocks because he's clumsy. I'm going to wait it out before I do anything drastic. I will report how everyone eats tonight after feeding.

[synofreak]

Your Royal Gramma will "more than likely" shake it off. Your Tangs are the most vulnerable. Just realize that not all ICK works at the same time. You have all sorts at all different stages. They can only be killed in free swimming form. I wouldn't even attempt in a reef. Higher temps will never kill the parasite(unless high to kill fish/coral,90+), as it only speeds the life cycle. It is very true that the parasite can be beat naturally. It DOES have a life cycle, and can be broken, but the fish need be healthy(very comfortable). It cannot lay dormant too long, hence it needs a host. The statement of "every tank has ICK", is just nonsence.
Just to make you feel better, my 120g has ICK. Just cant kick it as I keep buying new Tangs every few months. My 2 last purchases were a Royal Gramma(got it/kicked it 1.5 months now) and a 6 line wrasse that now appears to have it. I'm not gonna do a thing, just not introduce a Tang for a long time. I have 6 other fish in that tank that have never had the disease(visable), and 2 Tangs that have got and died from it. I beleive the 1st Tang was the carrier. Fish do have "slime coats" for a reason. KEEP your fish COMFORTABLE, stable water/housing/stock. Everything will pan out.
Ick is a "natural parasite", but is not an OMG parasite. It attacks the week and vulnerable. Hence my "comfortable" adjective everywhere =). BTW, I kept and bred FW fish for 6 years before SW and never lost a FW fish to it. Just the 2 TANGS . I think they are a bit skittish.

[drdoolittle]

I agree with synofreak. Just leave the tank alone and let it run its course. I encountered this issue several times in the past. The most effective solution that i found is to soak the food in garlic extract. If your lucky, i'll will go away in week.

Good luck

[Freed]