Vertex Alpha Kones ... - Page 2

mojo~ · 07/23/2009, 10:23 AM

I would agree as well. I actually pulled a few book out from college to look at back on some of the power factor issues that have come about.
Csm is correct. BAsically what happens is the pump is really big for the load it has . Kinda like reving your engine without putting it in gear. Its not a issue usually but not enough load will cause most pump to generate heat and burn out premature. No I dont have a ton of experience with the askoll/ red dragon motor block. But in the industrial industry I work in and most of the motors and pump we use are 3 phase 480v But a power factor of 1 is usually 100% of the motors hp rating. Some motors even have a power factor rating of more than one. So if it has a power factor of 1.2 and its 10hp motor. it could actually generate up to 12 hp under load before cause a locked rotor.

What does all this mean to the consumer.
All the skimmers here are pretty nice. This may mean nothing at all. But it could mean that the pumps may not last as long as one with a better power factor. I have no idea how much life would be cut. I simply dont know.
I have owned the WM k2, atb 840's, alpha 250 and 170 and the msx miniS. As far as cones go you have a lot of options.
Time will tell which one comes out on top. I have my own opinions that I will keep to myself in this forum.

I wish you the best of luck with your purchase and be sure to leave your feedback when you get it.

I always get a kick out of those saying that their skimmer is the best when they have nothing but thier old sea clone to compare it too. When you get up to some of the nicer skimmers you start looking at things other than performance as they start performing real similar.
Look at ease of cleaning, customer service, Cost of replacement parts, and well what ever else might be important to you. water level ect... Best of luck

Mojo~

143gadgets · 07/23/2009, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mojo~

I always get a kick out of those saying that their skimmer is the best when they have nothing but thier old sea clone to compare it too. When you get up to some of the nicer skimmers you start looking at things other than performance as they start performing real similar.
Look at ease of cleaning, customer service, Cost of replacement parts, and well what ever else might be important to you. water level ect... Best of luck

Mojo~

Greta point. i think this is what it all boils down to.

skimmy · 07/23/2009, 11:39 AM

word....

USC-fan · 07/23/2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarG
A couple actually but I was using an SWC cone. First with the dual sicces then I switched to a single askoll with the swc volute.
It was skimming really well. Way oversized for my 90. I had been looking at the Alphas and a couple others but wasnt planning on getting rid of the SWC but an offer came up locally so I let it go and bought the Alpha 200 to give a spin. I dont think I would recommend the SWC large cone for a 90 eventhough it did skim well on mine, but the askoll version for a larger tank I would whole heartedly recommend. The problem is that better built cones are hitting the market now at prices competitive with the SWC's cones (larger models). The Warner Marine and Alphas are just a couple examples. I noticed that MS dropped the price on the 1A cone, I have to think that is related.

Cool

How these compare to your DAS? You had a DAS ex-2 right?

popeye20 · 07/23/2009, 01:26 PM

Klaus?..... Klaus?.... Must have hit a nerve there. It strikes me as sorta funny that there was no further discussion from hime after that. I agree with him that the Red Dragon is a better pump than the sicce, but also agree with you that it depends on application of said pump using a body designed for the bigger flow.

ksed · 07/23/2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mojo~
I would agree as well. I actually pulled a few book out from college to look at back on some of the power factor issues that have come about.
Csm is correct. BAsically what happens is the pump is really big for the load it has . Kinda like reving your engine without putting it in gear. Its not a issue usually but not enough load will cause most pump to generate heat and burn out premature. No I dont have a ton of experience with the askoll/ red dragon motor block. But in the industrial industry I work in and most of the motors and pump we use are 3 phase 480v But a power factor of 1 is usually 100% of the motors hp rating. Some motors even have a power factor rating of more than one. So if it has a power factor of 1.2 and its 10hp motor. it could actually generate up to 12 hp under load before cause a locked rotor.

What does all this mean to the consumer.
All the skimmers here are pretty nice. This may mean nothing at all. But it could mean that the pumps may not last as long as one with a better power factor. I have no idea how much life would be cut. I simply dont know.
I have owned the WM k2, atb 840's, alpha 250 and 170 and the msx miniS. As far as cones go you have a lot of options.
Time will tell which one comes out on top. I have my own opinions that I will keep to myself in this forum.

I wish you the best of luck with your purchase and be sure to leave your feedback when you get it.

I always get a kick out of those saying that their skimmer is the best when they have nothing but thier old sea clone to compare it too. When you get up to some of the nicer skimmers you start looking at things other than performance as they start performing real similar.
Look at ease of cleaning, customer service, Cost of replacement parts, and well what ever else might be important to you. water level ect... Best of luck

Mojo~

Well said Mojo!
I am still confused is a higher power facter or a lower power factor more efficient?

Thanks

sjm817 · 07/23/2009, 02:10 PM

Higher PF is more efficient.

DarG · 07/23/2009, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by USC-fan
Cool

How these compare to your DAS? You had a DAS ex-2 right?

The DAS never skimmed anything that was actually black from the tank. The SWC actually skimmed black chunks. Not the entire skimmate was black but some of the chunks ... nastier smelling stuff. But the Das is still a viable skimmer. Yes, I had the EX-2.

USC-fan · 07/23/2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarG
The DAS never skimmed anything that was actually black from the tank. The SWC actually skimmed black chunks. Not the entire skimmate was black but some of the chunks ... nastier smelling stuff. But the Das is still a viable skimmer. Yes, I had the EX-2.

Wow sounds like a nice upgrade. I been so happy with the performance of my DAS. Is these new skimmers plug and play like the DAS? I have really not adjusted my skimmer in 6 months.

mojo~ · 07/23/2009, 04:57 PM

The newer skimmers are an upgrade to the das ex2. I had one of the das as well. they work well. But not as well as some of the newer options available these days.

Mojo~

07/23/2009, 10:23 AM	#26
mojo~ Skimmer Guy Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: IN Posts: 5,647	I would agree as well. I actually pulled a few book out from college to look at back on some of the power factor issues that have come about. Csm is correct. BAsically what happens is the pump is really big for the load it has . Kinda like reving your engine without putting it in gear. Its not a issue usually but not enough load will cause most pump to generate heat and burn out premature. No I dont have a ton of experience with the askoll/ red dragon motor block. But in the industrial industry I work in and most of the motors and pump we use are 3 phase 480v But a power factor of 1 is usually 100% of the motors hp rating. Some motors even have a power factor rating of more than one. So if it has a power factor of 1.2 and its 10hp motor. it could actually generate up to 12 hp under load before cause a locked rotor. What does all this mean to the consumer. All the skimmers here are pretty nice. This may mean nothing at all. But it could mean that the pumps may not last as long as one with a better power factor. I have no idea how much life would be cut. I simply dont know. I have owned the WM k2, atb 840's, alpha 250 and 170 and the msx miniS. As far as cones go you have a lot of options. Time will tell which one comes out on top. I have my own opinions that I will keep to myself in this forum. I wish you the best of luck with your purchase and be sure to leave your feedback when you get it. I always get a kick out of those saying that their skimmer is the best when they have nothing but thier old sea clone to compare it too. When you get up to some of the nicer skimmers you start looking at things other than performance as they start performing real similar. Look at ease of cleaning, customer service, Cost of replacement parts, and well what ever else might be important to you. water level ect... Best of luck Mojo~ __________________ Mojo~

07/23/2009, 02:10 PM	#32
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Higher PF is more efficient. __________________ - Scott

07/23/2009, 04:57 PM	#35
mojo~ Skimmer Guy Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: IN Posts: 5,647	The newer skimmers are an upgrade to the das ex2. I had one of the das as well. they work well. But not as well as some of the newer options available these days. Mojo~ __________________ Mojo~

07/23/2009, 11:39 AM	#28
skimmy T3am Zissou Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha Posts: 1,123	word....

07/23/2009, 01:26 PM	#30
popeye20 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: las vegas nv. Posts: 41	Klaus?..... Klaus?.... Must have hit a nerve there. It strikes me as sorta funny that there was no further discussion from hime after that. I agree with him that the Red Dragon is a better pump than the sicce, but also agree with you that it depends on application of said pump using a body designed for the bigger flow.