To Chill-er or not to Chill-er, that is the question - Page 2

bassking16 · 01/10/2010, 02:24 PM

I think you are right about being made by Jebo. I couldn't remember aff the top of my head. Like I said earlier, they aren't very loud, but you can hear when they are running. I also have an open top tank, so the sound and evaporation are both multiplied a little bit.

If I were to do it over, I would have bought ONE 5-fan unit instead of two 4-fan units. I think the one bigger one would have been plenty for my 75g. You know how it goes. You live and learn.

ANyway, good luck in your cooling quest.
Bassking

fishybudguy · 01/10/2010, 05:25 PM

well fans are nice but i dont think they are very efficient and the tank temp swings to much which could cause a algae bloom........yuk.........i dont have a chiller right now and currently use fans but i have to turn on my a/c in april which costs more in the long run so with my current new build im trying to save enough to get a chiller cause i to run 2 250 hqis and VHOs but heat has always been an isue i have had and i am not going to skimp and i will sell my kidney if need be to get a chiller for my new tank....most importantly set the chiller outside the stand or away from sump so the heat can escape like someone said earlier, if you put it inside your stand the heat will just recirculate and never escape the area

good luck and happy reefing

lordofthereef · 01/10/2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishybudguy

well fans are nice but i dont think they are very efficient and the tank temp swings to much which could cause a algae bloom........yuk.........

That is the reason to put it on a controller. If it is on a controller, your temp should not fluctuate more than a degree or two. As for the algae issues, it takes more than temp to raise algae

marnol · 01/10/2010, 07:58 PM

would it be possible to pump some water through a radiator with a fan blowing through it? This might help with the evaporation problem. Kind of like the water cooled computers. It would pump the heat into the room, but if your room is ac'd it should be a problem....

might be a stupid idea....

theyammieguy · 01/10/2010, 07:59 PM

Not sure how good aluminum or brass is for reef tanks.

marnol · 01/10/2010, 08:01 PM

like this....

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/40...?tl=g30c95s160

ahhhh, didnt think of the corrosion.

theyammieguy · 01/10/2010, 08:03 PM

That one has copper in it, so thats a definete no.

marnol · 01/10/2010, 08:09 PM

did a quick google search...

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f7...tor-37908.html

theyammieguy · 01/10/2010, 08:14 PM

Like it says in there, you would have to have fans big enough to push or pull enough air to cool the water.

Plus, it's more plumbing, room needed and more water.

I've seen lots of tanks with fans clamped to the DT or sump and they cool very well. I plan on using fans because I can't afford a chiller big enough for 80g total volume.

jdthomas24 · 01/10/2010, 11:49 PM

ya the chillers are not cheap and when you break down to buy one you want to spend the money to get one that will last. A friend of mien got a jbj abotu a year ago. Before that he had issueswith fish and algae. Some fish would die and alage would grow and nwo he has the chiller he is happy and says that his issues have completely went away. He must have had heat spiikes during the day. He use to have fans on the tank btu they sounded like jet plans taking off!!i was like dude. those thigns suck!!!! so he took them out and got a chiller. lol

soonerfan12 · 01/11/2010, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdthomas24

ya the chillers are not cheap and when you break down to buy one you want to spend the money to get one that will last. A friend of mien got a jbj abotu a year ago. Before that he had issueswith fish and algae. Some fish would die and alage would grow and nwo he has the chiller he is happy and says that his issues have completely went away. He must have had heat spiikes during the day. He use to have fans on the tank btu they sounded like jet plans taking off!!i was like dude. those thigns suck!!!! so he took them out and got a chiller. lol

agreed, i have 4 of those bakers fans and when all 4 of them are on it sounds like a 737 is landing in the house, my wife gladly handed over the cash for a chiller.

MrsHaggis · 01/11/2010, 05:30 AM

Last year our summer temp got to 57oC (135 F) in the direct sun and 42oC (108 F) in the the shade. We got a big fan and sat it over the DT (we didn't have a sump with the old setup). It worked really well although evaporation did increase by about 50%!!

For the new 95 gallon tank we looked into chillers but to be honest I just don't think we can justify the cost. Our tank is totally open with a 250 Watt MH set about 8 inches (or thereabouts) above the tank. This summer we will put a fan over the sump to keep it cool. Although I am worried about the increase in evaporation, it's hard enough keeping up with making RO/DI water right now......it takes about 1 hour to produce 2 gallons of the stuff. At least in summer we can put the waste water into the pool and use it in the garden for the veggie patch. In winter (we are currently at about 14 F) there is nothing we can do with the waste water, other than watering the indoor plants. So we waste quite a bit, which is really annoying!!

Anyway, in our case Not To Chiller.

wooden_reefer · 01/11/2010, 01:48 PM

I think whether a chiller is needed depends on the region you live in and also your temp preference.

If you are comfy at 85 F and you have to lower the thermostat for the whole house to 70F just for the tank, you can really spend a lot on energy due to the tank.

If you have to be at 70F to be comfy yourself, you may not need a chiller. You pay for your own comfort, for the most part, more part.

Some people are comfy at 85F, many do not understand.

jdthomas24 · 01/11/2010, 03:21 PM

Well right now im running a small fan over the sump and 2 80mm ones laying on the center support of the tank facing the MH bulbs. this has actually decreased the temp about 5 degress overall maybe 6 but we will see in the summer time how it goes. one good thing is my room with the tank in it does nto get direct sunlight, bad thing is it has 3 10 foot windows in it! so im nto sure if i will have to break down or not. plumbing is done for a chiller and it will go on the opposite side of the wall in the pantry on a milk crate to help air get in and around it. I guess time will tell... im nto even sure what we keep the AC on during the summer but im nto one to be in a a house thats above 80 so time will tell.

jmatt · 01/11/2010, 04:23 PM

Here's an idea, albeit perhaps off the wall: How about purchasing a used mini fridge on CL for $30. Drill out inlet and outlet holes and pvc plumb them.

Then in the interior have some kind of plastic water bladder (like the kind you use for camping that you affix to the plumbed outlets. Hook the fridge up to a temperature controller board so it goes on and off as necessary.

Or perhaps just use a large coil of flexible tubing in the interior rather than a bladder, probably better that way.

Only problem might be that once the controller turns off the fridge, the interior will still remain cold for some time. Perhaps the controller could be set to turn off at a slightly higher temperature so that it would "coast" for the last few degrees, thus not lowering the temp more than you intended.

Hmm, perhaps have the contoller also attached to a solenoid valve that simply bypasses the fridge when the correct temp is reached. Then the coil in the fridge gravity drains back to the sump. Or something.

The upside is you could cheaply cool the water with little noise and no evaporation as you have with a fan.

I dunno, sounds kookier now than when I first thought of it...

kameleon23 · 01/11/2010, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soonerfan12

agreed, i have 4 of those bakers fans and when all 4 of them are on it sounds like a 737 is landing in the house, my wife gladly handed over the cash for a chiller.

Is your chiller any quieter when it kicks on???? My 1/4hp JBJ is supposedly "surprisingly quiet" compared to the others....i guess it is quiet though, i can't hear it when i step outside my house.

jdthomas24 · 01/11/2010, 07:40 PM

lol, chillers are like small AC units, they can not be silent but JBJ is the most quite one on the market. if yours is loud i would call and see if there may be an issue. My friends 1/3 does not seem to be running when it is. very low tones. I may get the 1/3 HP, but im not sure i need one that big on my 150. was thinking on the 1/4.

jdthomas24 · 01/11/2010, 07:43 PM

ooo, Matt ... i seen a plan for using a small fridge as a chiller.... its pretty much on point with what you said. coiled up copper lines in the unit, the bad thing is that if those min fridges were actually mini freezers then it may work better. with the flow rate of water it would not freeze and the icebox side would take longer..you would have to cut a hole to join both compartments together and then unhook the icebox side thermostate. PITA! to me... but if i had one sitting around and a lot of time on my hands then i may make an exception...

jmatt · 01/12/2010, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdthomas24

ooo, Matt ... i seen a plan for using a small fridge as a chiller.... its pretty much on point with what you said.

Copper would prolly be bad for the tank, no? That's why I thought just a large coil of rubber hose.

The 2 mini fridges I have don't have separate freezer compartments but when you crank down the temperature they get pretty darn cold, just the same.

It's Jmatt, btw. I gotta get a new screen name, people have been making that mistake on every forum I visit for the last 10 years.

Joce · 01/12/2010, 10:56 AM

with a chiller, temperature will be more stable..that's for sure. Cost is just the initial cost..having already spent so much on your system, the cost of a chiller is not that significant in the long run.

I'm planning to run a chiller in my tank coz of where i live it's hot and humid in the summer.

lordofthereef · 01/12/2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marnol

would it be possible to pump some water through a radiator with a fan blowing through it? This might help with the evaporation problem. Kind of like the water cooled computers. It would pump the heat into the room, but if your room is ac'd it should be a problem....

might be a stupid idea....

That is basically what a chiller is, just on a beefier scale. It might work the way you are suggesting, the question is whether it can withstand salt and whether it has the potential to leech anything into or otherwise contaminate the tank.

NirvanaFan · 01/12/2010, 11:40 AM

If I'm not mistaken a small refrigerator/freezer is terribly inefficient. You will be surprised at how efficient fan cooling is. I've got an 8 bulb tek t5 unit over my 75g tank. If I turn the fans on when the lights come on, the temperature will drop, not go up. Unless the relative humidity in your house is extremely high, fans will probably do just fine. I would wait to buy a chiller until you know you need it.

crvz · 01/12/2010, 02:56 PM

so I live down in Houston, considerably further south and typically much more humid, and I didnt need a chiller on my 150 gallon tank. A pair of 6" clip on fans (like pictured by flipper62) were mounted in my canopy and that's all it took. I bought the air king fans (found on marinedepot.com) and they were dead silent at the lower setting, and barely noticeable on high (and even then, I couldnt hear them over the other sounds of my tanks, such as the water flow or the skimmer). And my tank was in the main living area with considerable thought put into the sound level of the set up. Point is, a well thought out tank can easily eliminate the need for a chiller.

01/10/2010, 02:24 PM	#26
bassking16 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 336	Hello I think you are right about being made by Jebo. I couldn't remember aff the top of my head. Like I said earlier, they aren't very loud, but you can hear when they are running. I also have an open top tank, so the sound and evaporation are both multiplied a little bit. If I were to do it over, I would have bought ONE 5-fan unit instead of two 4-fan units. I think the one bigger one would have been plenty for my 75g. You know how it goes. You live and learn. ANyway, good luck in your cooling quest. Bassking __________________ If you don't want to stand behind our troops, then feel free to stand in front of them! Current Tank Info: 150g SPS 55g Sump/Fuge/Frag Tank

01/10/2010, 05:25 PM	#27
fishybudguy Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: boonville IN Posts: 157	well fans are nice but i dont think they are very efficient and the tank temp swings to much which could cause a algae bloom........yuk.........i dont have a chiller right now and currently use fans but i have to turn on my a/c in april which costs more in the long run so with my current new build im trying to save enough to get a chiller cause i to run 2 250 hqis and VHOs but heat has always been an isue i have had and i am not going to skimp and i will sell my kidney if need be to get a chiller for my new tank....most importantly set the chiller outside the stand or away from sump so the heat can escape like someone said earlier, if you put it inside your stand the heat will just recirculate and never escape the area good luck and happy reefing __________________ love the earth, love the sea,ride a bike, scuba dive, and always drink budweiser Current Tank Info: 110 reef

01/10/2010, 07:59 PM	#30
theyammieguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 1,691	Not sure how good aluminum or brass is for reef tanks. __________________ "Ya'll can go to hell, I'm going to Texas". David Crockett. 12g JBJ deluxe JBJ viper 70w, maxi jet 900, Koralia nano, two false percs, softies, LPS, and SPS, about 25# LR and 2"-3" SB. Running since 3/22/07. Soon to add sump with skimmer Click my home page for pictures. 40g breeder upgrade in progress. Planning a 60g cube FOWLR.

01/10/2010, 08:03 PM	#32
theyammieguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 1,691	That one has copper in it, so thats a definete no. __________________ "Ya'll can go to hell, I'm going to Texas". David Crockett. 12g JBJ deluxe JBJ viper 70w, maxi jet 900, Koralia nano, two false percs, softies, LPS, and SPS, about 25# LR and 2"-3" SB. Running since 3/22/07. Soon to add sump with skimmer Click my home page for pictures. 40g breeder upgrade in progress. Planning a 60g cube FOWLR.

01/10/2010, 08:14 PM	#34
theyammieguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 1,691	Like it says in there, you would have to have fans big enough to push or pull enough air to cool the water. Plus, it's more plumbing, room needed and more water. I've seen lots of tanks with fans clamped to the DT or sump and they cool very well. I plan on using fans because I can't afford a chiller big enough for 80g total volume. __________________ "Ya'll can go to hell, I'm going to Texas". David Crockett. 12g JBJ deluxe JBJ viper 70w, maxi jet 900, Koralia nano, two false percs, softies, LPS, and SPS, about 25# LR and 2"-3" SB. Running since 3/22/07. Soon to add sump with skimmer Click my home page for pictures. 40g breeder upgrade in progress. Planning a 60g cube FOWLR.

01/10/2010, 07:58 PM	#29
marnol Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 51	would it be possible to pump some water through a radiator with a fan blowing through it? This might help with the evaporation problem. Kind of like the water cooled computers. It would pump the heat into the room, but if your room is ac'd it should be a problem.... might be a stupid idea....

01/10/2010, 08:01 PM	#31
marnol Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 51	like this.... http://www.frozencpu.com/products/40...?tl=g30c95s160 ahhhh, didnt think of the corrosion.

01/10/2010, 08:09 PM	#33
marnol Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: College Station, Texas Posts: 51	did a quick google search... http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f7...tor-37908.html

01/10/2010, 11:49 PM	#35
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	ya the chillers are not cheap and when you break down to buy one you want to spend the money to get one that will last. A friend of mien got a jbj abotu a year ago. Before that he had issueswith fish and algae. Some fish would die and alage would grow and nwo he has the chiller he is happy and says that his issues have completely went away. He must have had heat spiikes during the day. He use to have fans on the tank btu they sounded like jet plans taking off!!i was like dude. those thigns suck!!!! so he took them out and got a chiller. lol

01/11/2010, 05:30 AM	#37
MrsHaggis Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: St Louis, France Posts: 675	Last year our summer temp got to 57oC (135 F) in the direct sun and 42oC (108 F) in the the shade. We got a big fan and sat it over the DT (we didn't have a sump with the old setup). It worked really well although evaporation did increase by about 50%!! For the new 95 gallon tank we looked into chillers but to be honest I just don't think we can justify the cost. Our tank is totally open with a 250 Watt MH set about 8 inches (or thereabouts) above the tank. This summer we will put a fan over the sump to keep it cool. Although I am worried about the increase in evaporation, it's hard enough keeping up with making RO/DI water right now......it takes about 1 hour to produce 2 gallons of the stuff. At least in summer we can put the waste water into the pool and use it in the garden for the veggie patch. In winter (we are currently at about 14 F) there is nothing we can do with the waste water, other than watering the indoor plants. So we waste quite a bit, which is really annoying!! Anyway, in our case Not To Chiller. __________________ Nothing scarier than a clown!! ----------------------------- 1 ClownFish 1 SixLine Wrasse 1 Foxface Rabbitfish Mushrooms Long Polyp Leather Green Anchor Coral Zoanthids Trumpet Coral Goniopora Current Tank Info: 360 litre (95 US Gallons), Tunze DOC Skimmer 9010, Lights: Metal Halide 250 Watt and 2x24 Watt Moon Lights, Tunze MultiController 7095

01/11/2010, 01:48 PM	#38
wooden_reefer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,670	I think whether a chiller is needed depends on the region you live in and also your temp preference. If you are comfy at 85 F and you have to lower the thermostat for the whole house to 70F just for the tank, you can really spend a lot on energy due to the tank. If you have to be at 70F to be comfy yourself, you may not need a chiller. You pay for your own comfort, for the most part, more part. Some people are comfy at 85F, many do not understand.

01/11/2010, 03:21 PM	#39
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	Well right now im running a small fan over the sump and 2 80mm ones laying on the center support of the tank facing the MH bulbs. this has actually decreased the temp about 5 degress overall maybe 6 but we will see in the summer time how it goes. one good thing is my room with the tank in it does nto get direct sunlight, bad thing is it has 3 10 foot windows in it! so im nto sure if i will have to break down or not. plumbing is done for a chiller and it will go on the opposite side of the wall in the pantry on a milk crate to help air get in and around it. I guess time will tell... im nto even sure what we keep the AC on during the summer but im nto one to be in a a house thats above 80 so time will tell.

01/11/2010, 04:23 PM	#40
jmatt Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Northampton, PA Posts: 43	How about a mini fridge? Here's an idea, albeit perhaps off the wall: How about purchasing a used mini fridge on CL for $30. Drill out inlet and outlet holes and pvc plumb them. Then in the interior have some kind of plastic water bladder (like the kind you use for camping that you affix to the plumbed outlets. Hook the fridge up to a temperature controller board so it goes on and off as necessary. Or perhaps just use a large coil of flexible tubing in the interior rather than a bladder, probably better that way. Only problem might be that once the controller turns off the fridge, the interior will still remain cold for some time. Perhaps the controller could be set to turn off at a slightly higher temperature so that it would "coast" for the last few degrees, thus not lowering the temp more than you intended. Hmm, perhaps have the contoller also attached to a solenoid valve that simply bypasses the fridge when the correct temp is reached. Then the coil in the fridge gravity drains back to the sump. Or something. The upside is you could cheaply cool the water with little noise and no evaporation as you have with a fan. I dunno, sounds kookier now than when I first thought of it... Last edited by jmatt; 01/11/2010 at 04:39 PM. Reason: better idea!

01/11/2010, 07:40 PM	#42
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	lol, chillers are like small AC units, they can not be silent but JBJ is the most quite one on the market. if yours is loud i would call and see if there may be an issue. My friends 1/3 does not seem to be running when it is. very low tones. I may get the 1/3 HP, but im not sure i need one that big on my 150. was thinking on the 1/4.

01/11/2010, 07:43 PM	#43
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	ooo, Matt ... i seen a plan for using a small fridge as a chiller.... its pretty much on point with what you said. coiled up copper lines in the unit, the bad thing is that if those min fridges were actually mini freezers then it may work better. with the flow rate of water it would not freeze and the icebox side would take longer..you would have to cut a hole to join both compartments together and then unhook the icebox side thermostate. PITA! to me... but if i had one sitting around and a lot of time on my hands then i may make an exception...

01/12/2010, 10:56 AM	#45
Joce Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Hong Kong/Toronto, Ont Posts: 107	with a chiller, temperature will be more stable..that's for sure. Cost is just the initial cost..having already spent so much on your system, the cost of a chiller is not that significant in the long run. I'm planning to run a chiller in my tank coz of where i live it's hot and humid in the summer.

01/12/2010, 11:40 AM	#47
NirvanaFan Reef Ninja Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,280	If I'm not mistaken a small refrigerator/freezer is terribly inefficient. You will be surprised at how efficient fan cooling is. I've got an 8 bulb tek t5 unit over my 75g tank. If I turn the fans on when the lights come on, the temperature will drop, not go up. Unless the relative humidity in your house is extremely high, fans will probably do just fine. I would wait to buy a chiller until you know you need it.

01/12/2010, 02:56 PM	#48
crvz Team RC Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: houstonia Posts: 7,989	so I live down in Houston, considerably further south and typically much more humid, and I didnt need a chiller on my 150 gallon tank. A pair of 6" clip on fans (like pictured by flipper62) were mounted in my canopy and that's all it took. I bought the air king fans (found on marinedepot.com) and they were dead silent at the lower setting, and barely noticeable on high (and even then, I couldnt hear them over the other sounds of my tanks, such as the water flow or the skimmer). And my tank was in the main living area with considerable thought put into the sound level of the set up. Point is, a well thought out tank can easily eliminate the need for a chiller. __________________ -Chris- You don't win friends with salad. "Look! They're trying to learn for free!" ... "Use your phony guns as clubs!" Current Tank Info: rectangluar? wet?