starphire tank crack . stop laminated glass crack HELP - Page 2

crooks · 01/13/2010, 06:28 PM

Here is the Chicago land forum if you need help close by.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumd...s=&forumid=180

Chicago · 01/13/2010, 10:12 PM

thanks.. where can i get ge 1200 silicon. i have some but has exp of 7/04
still trying to get camera good photos to up load.

thanks

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 04:57 PM

panes are 5/8.. two of them laminated... looking for 1200 ge silicone.. thought i would look at trim.. it seems to be missing some and maybe.. just maybe water got in and is working the lamanite. who knows.. will try to take some pics tonight again.. it is really hard.. need good macro.. thanks all

BeanAnimal · 01/14/2010, 06:23 PM

Windshields are laminated glass. In most cases, you can not feel a small crack from either side of the window. Most cracks will continue to grow as the glass undergoes normal stress due to temperature and vibration. You just never know when a small crack will turn into a rapidly moving catastrophic failure. Adding bracing is not likely going to help at this point.

Drilling a hole at the end of the crack and filling it with reson MAY help, but IMHO is certainly not worth the risk with that large of a tank.

The only reasonable way to sleep at night is to replace the panel or the whole tank. If you do just the front panel, you will have to worry about seam integrity and old-to-new silicone joints.

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 06:29 PM

according to mitch at bow valley he thinks tank is still very strong as it is only most likely only one pane if it is a crack.. he has never heard of a crack that only is on inside.. if it was a crack should be able to feel it on either side water or front of tank... but perhaps maybe under the black trim plastic cover that runs around the rim would show crack all the way through the width.. just dont know.. i am going to try and add some silicone to under the rim..

iamwrasseman · 01/14/2010, 06:44 PM

i wish you the best ,hope all turns out well .just taggn along

ycrazyy · 01/14/2010, 07:40 PM

Chicago...

I know you want to avoid everything possible to replace the tank, but I deal with glass on a daily basis, and once laminated glass starts to fail, it becomes structurally unsound. If one pane of the 2 is cracked, then you have already cut the strength of the overall pane in half. Resin will not help, neither will adding bracing.

You normally CANNOT feel a crack in laminated glass as I and others have pointed out. If you want to keep it safe, I STRONGLY recommend that you replace the pane or the tank. If you post pics (I know it's hard to get a good one) then at least we will all have a better idea of what is going on. From your description though, it really sounds like you are flirting with disaster.

Just my honest opinion...

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 09:23 PM

i hear you.. when i hold something against the inside of the tank this will help with pic so lets see. i understand what you are saying..thanks

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 09:34 PM

ycrazyy.. not to cross examine you but little more info please.. you cannot feel a crack in laminated glass.. ?? in the past i have felt my crack in windsheild.. i know this is not close to that situation.. so question.
1. i can see the issue in the glass. part looks like a crack as light reflects.then from point of that it is weird like jagged edges.. not like spider crackes but like almost wavey.. hard to say..still trying to get pics.. really hard to do.. there is no crack edge to the inside or outside pannels as i can tell when i put black glass cleaning to tool to each side.. i can see it is inside of glass..
2. resin will not help we all agree windsheild repair would not work..

thanks again all..

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 09:52 PM

cannot feel this from either the inside or outside of the tank..crazy.

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 09:52 PM

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 09:53 PM

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 09:55 PM

this shows the size of it.. about 3/4 inch long..

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 09:56 PM

this is one of the better pics.. you get idea of the wave effect on the bottom of the thing

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 10:04 PM

this is why i really do not want to have to take down and pull trim and move and replace and cry and yell. arggggg..!!!!!

Chicago · 01/14/2010, 10:06 PM

by the way the above pic taken .. before the sps crash or 2009.. bad year for the tank.. currently only a FOWLR.

thoughts on pics.. thanks '

NanoReefWanabe · 01/14/2010, 10:40 PM

wow that certainly was one beautiful tank you had...any up to date pics as a flower?

as for the "issue" the rippling in the one picture certainly makes it look like the glass has cracked from the middle of the lamination, and is working its way outward to the front of the tank... it does it appear to be in the front piece of glass..i dont know glass characteristics well enough to say catastrophic failure is imminent, but it certainly doesnt look promising..

hoffy02 · 01/15/2010, 07:47 AM

that looks like a delamination to me... not a crack... IMO... again IMO... from the pic it appears the the lamination of the glass had a fault that the salt and water has found. A crack would have split to the outside of either pane imediately... that looks as though the delamination is spreading as the water finds the weakest points between the 2 panes. Again IMO a crack wouldnt be oriented that way... As in the flat side wouldnt be facing you as it is in the pictures...

hoffy02 · 01/15/2010, 07:49 AM

have you tried to "sqeeze" the 2 panes together with you hands to see if that is water in there? that may be impossible but if you can see movement or deflection from the water moving, there is your answer... De-lamination.

hoffy02 · 01/15/2010, 07:50 AM

then again that could cause a catastrophic failure!!! dont listen to a word I say!!! LOL!!

Chicago · 01/15/2010, 10:35 AM

no.. squezing is not possible. this is very heavy glass...i am going to try and get some silicone into the rim.. it looks like it is missing or has a lighter amount by the rim where the line follows up to the top.. maybe if lucky got some water in there? then again if so how do i get it out.

ycrazyy · 01/15/2010, 12:59 PM

Chicago,

That looks like a crack to me, although it is tough to tell (some of the pictures look like a crack, others like delamination). As for your questions, when laminated glass cracks it can be tough to feel it, especially if this is the inside pane of glass which is crack because the pressure would be pushing it out, therefore there wouldn't be a "lip" from the crack... plus the lamination helps to hold the glass together.

The first pic looked like delamnation, however the other pictures almost certainly show the glass as broken. The way the light reflects through it and it looks like it goes through the piece of glass is what makes me think that. I have included a picture of laminated glass that is failing to show you the difference. Hopefully this helps and I wish you luck, the tank was absolutely gorgeous!!!

Chicago · 01/15/2010, 06:44 PM

the more i look at it .. the more it looks like a crack.. but absolutely cannot feel it..i think where the edge of the crack meets the laminate is a little of a spike which is the laminate. that is making the wavey look. anyways we will see how long it takes to grow..

than again can make a slow motioin video as it explodes

argggg

Chicago · 01/15/2010, 09:46 PM

took from the inside of tank,, and looks like nice crack. infact some of the perimiter rim is cracked. maybe center brace little lose. and gave way .. who knows. you all think crack.. ideas.. besides destroy and replace.. thanks see below pics.....

here is perimiter bracing shot notice chips where it meets the center brace

Chicago · 01/15/2010, 09:47 PM

notice it looks like starts from two cracks or something..

01/13/2010, 10:12 PM	#27
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	thanks.. where can i get ge 1200 silicon. i have some but has exp of 7/04 still trying to get camera good photos to up load. thanks __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 04:57 PM	#28
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	panes are 5/8.. two of them laminated... looking for 1200 ge silicone.. thought i would look at trim.. it seems to be missing some and maybe.. just maybe water got in and is working the lamanite. who knows.. will try to take some pics tonight again.. it is really hard.. need good macro.. thanks all __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 06:29 PM	#30
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	according to mitch at bow valley he thinks tank is still very strong as it is only most likely only one pane if it is a crack.. he has never heard of a crack that only is on inside.. if it was a crack should be able to feel it on either side water or front of tank... but perhaps maybe under the black trim plastic cover that runs around the rim would show crack all the way through the width.. just dont know.. i am going to try and add some silicone to under the rim.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 06:44 PM	#31
iamwrasseman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: syracuse Posts: 7,003	i wish you the best ,hope all turns out well .just taggn along __________________ This hobby certainly can put you in some weird positions ! Dave Current Tank Info: 40 freshwater,25saltwater 2000 gallons ,enough tanks for an army ?

01/14/2010, 09:23 PM	#33
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	i hear you.. when i hold something against the inside of the tank this will help with pic so lets see. i understand what you are saying..thanks __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/13/2010, 06:28 PM	#26
crooks Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Elgin IL Posts: 1,346	Here is the Chicago land forum if you need help close by. http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumd...s=&forumid=180

01/14/2010, 06:23 PM	#29
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Windshields are laminated glass. In most cases, you can not feel a small crack from either side of the window. Most cracks will continue to grow as the glass undergoes normal stress due to temperature and vibration. You just never know when a small crack will turn into a rapidly moving catastrophic failure. Adding bracing is not likely going to help at this point. Drilling a hole at the end of the crack and filling it with reson MAY help, but IMHO is certainly not worth the risk with that large of a tank. The only reasonable way to sleep at night is to replace the panel or the whole tank. If you do just the front panel, you will have to worry about seam integrity and old-to-new silicone joints.

01/14/2010, 07:40 PM	#32
ycrazyy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 327	Chicago... I know you want to avoid everything possible to replace the tank, but I deal with glass on a daily basis, and once laminated glass starts to fail, it becomes structurally unsound. If one pane of the 2 is cracked, then you have already cut the strength of the overall pane in half. Resin will not help, neither will adding bracing. You normally CANNOT feel a crack in laminated glass as I and others have pointed out. If you want to keep it safe, I STRONGLY recommend that you replace the pane or the tank. If you post pics (I know it's hard to get a good one) then at least we will all have a better idea of what is going on. From your description though, it really sounds like you are flirting with disaster. Just my honest opinion...

01/14/2010, 09:34 PM	#34
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	ycrazyy.. not to cross examine you but little more info please.. you cannot feel a crack in laminated glass.. ?? in the past i have felt my crack in windsheild.. i know this is not close to that situation.. so question. 1. i can see the issue in the glass. part looks like a crack as light reflects.then from point of that it is weird like jagged edges.. not like spider crackes but like almost wavey.. hard to say..still trying to get pics.. really hard to do.. there is no crack edge to the inside or outside pannels as i can tell when i put black glass cleaning to tool to each side.. i can see it is inside of glass.. 2. resin will not help we all agree windsheild repair would not work.. thanks again all.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 09:52 PM	#35
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	cannot feel this from either the inside or outside of the tank..crazy. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator Last edited by Chicago; 01/14/2010 at 10:03 PM.

01/14/2010, 09:52 PM	#36
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 09:53 PM	#37
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	__________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 09:55 PM	#38
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	this shows the size of it.. about 3/4 inch long.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 09:56 PM	#39
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	this is one of the better pics.. you get idea of the wave effect on the bottom of the thing __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 10:04 PM	#40
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	this is why i really do not want to have to take down and pull trim and move and replace and cry and yell. arggggg..!!!!! __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 10:06 PM	#41
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	by the way the above pic taken .. before the sps crash or 2009.. bad year for the tank.. currently only a FOWLR. thoughts on pics.. thanks ' __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/14/2010, 10:40 PM	#42
NanoReefWanabe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada Posts: 6,639	wow that certainly was one beautiful tank you had...any up to date pics as a flower? as for the "issue" the rippling in the one picture certainly makes it look like the glass has cracked from the middle of the lamination, and is working its way outward to the front of the tank... it does it appear to be in the front piece of glass..i dont know glass characteristics well enough to say catastrophic failure is imminent, but it certainly doesnt look promising..

01/15/2010, 07:47 AM	#43
hoffy02 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Crosby, TX. Posts: 399	that looks like a delamination to me... not a crack... IMO... again IMO... from the pic it appears the the lamination of the glass had a fault that the salt and water has found. A crack would have split to the outside of either pane imediately... that looks as though the delamination is spreading as the water finds the weakest points between the 2 panes. Again IMO a crack wouldnt be oriented that way... As in the flat side wouldnt be facing you as it is in the pictures...

01/15/2010, 07:49 AM	#44
hoffy02 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Crosby, TX. Posts: 399	have you tried to "sqeeze" the 2 panes together with you hands to see if that is water in there? that may be impossible but if you can see movement or deflection from the water moving, there is your answer... De-lamination.

01/15/2010, 07:50 AM	#45
hoffy02 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Crosby, TX. Posts: 399	then again that could cause a catastrophic failure!!! dont listen to a word I say!!! LOL!!

01/15/2010, 10:35 AM	#46
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	no.. squezing is not possible. this is very heavy glass...i am going to try and get some silicone into the rim.. it looks like it is missing or has a lighter amount by the rim where the line follows up to the top.. maybe if lucky got some water in there? then again if so how do i get it out. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/15/2010, 12:59 PM	#47
ycrazyy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 327	Chicago, That looks like a crack to me, although it is tough to tell (some of the pictures look like a crack, others like delamination). As for your questions, when laminated glass cracks it can be tough to feel it, especially if this is the inside pane of glass which is crack because the pressure would be pushing it out, therefore there wouldn't be a "lip" from the crack... plus the lamination helps to hold the glass together. The first pic looked like delamnation, however the other pictures almost certainly show the glass as broken. The way the light reflects through it and it looks like it goes through the piece of glass is what makes me think that. I have included a picture of laminated glass that is failing to show you the difference. Hopefully this helps and I wish you luck, the tank was absolutely gorgeous!!!

01/15/2010, 06:44 PM	#48
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	the more i look at it .. the more it looks like a crack.. but absolutely cannot feel it..i think where the edge of the crack meets the laminate is a little of a spike which is the laminate. that is making the wavey look. anyways we will see how long it takes to grow.. than again can make a slow motioin video as it explodesargggg __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/15/2010, 09:46 PM	#49
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	took from the inside of tank,, and looks like nice crack. infact some of the perimiter rim is cracked. maybe center brace little lose. and gave way .. who knows. you all think crack.. ideas.. besides destroy and replace.. thanks see below pics..... here is perimiter bracing shot notice chips where it meets the center brace __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/15/2010, 09:47 PM	#50
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	notice it looks like starts from two cracks or something.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator