How to dim a Meanwell ELN-60-48D... - Page 2

evilc66 · 02/11/2010, 01:10 PM

Not to bad when you paint by numbers. All of these parts can be bought at Radioshack. This will accept 12-32v and still work perfectly.

JaredWaites · 02/11/2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stugray

evilc66,

"While an LM317 isn't the best choice, it's a readily available one for anyone that walks down to the local Radioshack."

Agreed, and I have a LED light running on my QT with two CREE XR-E using just a LM317 as a driver.

However - you need to install at least two Caps and a variable resistor in the circuit.
This is a little beyond most DIYers ability to solder discrete parts together without a PWB. ( although DWZM could easily do a VERY nice LM317 driver PCB for us ).

Anyway, if the variability of wall warts bothers you, lets say:

Get TWO 5k Pots.
Hook high side of POT 1 to Wallwart ( unknown voltage < 24V )
Hook Wiper of POT 1 to High side of POT 2 ( insulate low side of Pot 1 )

Hook Low side of POT 2 to wall wart ground

Turn on wall wart & measure voltage across POT 2
Adjust POT 1 until max Voltage across POT 2 = 10.0 VDC

Hook wiper of POT 2 to Meanwell Dim+
Hook wall wart Ground(RTN) to Dim-

NOW you can get 0-10V by adjusting POT 2 regardless of voltage of wall wart. ( DO NOT adjust POT 1 ever again )

Sorry if that sounds complicated but it's not.

Stu

Heck I don't know why...but I totally understand this compared to the circuit. I just don't understand how to wire a circuit board and have everything done correctly as far as where they connect to the grounds..etc. No one that I know of can build any circuits either or lend a hand for that matter.

So I end up using another pot per driver it seems...no biggie. Another 5 bucks total for the build. I'll just hide the other pot under the hood and leave the 0-10v one accesable thru the hood.

niffer · 02/11/2010, 05:39 PM

this might be a dumb question, but will you have to control this manually, or can it be automated?

evilc66 · 02/11/2010, 05:46 PM

Hook the driver directly to a Reefkeeper with an ALC, Apex, or Profilux, and you don't need any of this stuff, and it will automate everything.

Gomer · 02/12/2010, 01:31 AM

Keep in mind that the Meanwell ELN-60-48D doesn't do well when you exceed 10.6v

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/12/2010, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niffer

this might be a dumb question, but will you have to control this manually, or can it be automated?

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilc66

Hook the driver directly to a Reefkeeper with an ALC, Apex, or Profilux, and you don't need any of this stuff, and it will automate everything.

Or, if you're looking for "cheap" and don't mind a bit of effort (though that's subjective), spend $30 on an Arduino and $5 on some external components to build your own controller.

evilc66 · 02/12/2010, 09:41 AM

That's a great option too if you want to learn how to program. I need to get off my butt and finish mine. Too many other things going on.

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/12/2010, 09:53 AM

If crudely dimming LEDs is the only thing you want to do, it's very easy with an Arduino, especially if you go for a PWM-dimmable driver (buckpucks, P-type ELNs). Two wires, and three of four lines of code modified in the "fade" example sketch included with the Arduino software. More fashionable dimming is easy too, because several people have already written and shared code.

To date, I've used an external RTC with my arduino LED dimmers, but you could use the clock to count time, especially with the new time library.

The only real problem with using an Arduino like this is that it's easy to get carried away. You start out thinking "oh I'll just use it to dim LEDs" and before you know it, you're trying to download weather data from the great barrier reef in realtime so you can match your VFD-controlled closed loop to current wave strengths in nature.

Skeptic_07 · 02/12/2010, 10:30 AM

DWZM.. how much more difficult is it do use an adruino to dim the D type meanwells?

I only ask because my plans was to get my fixture up and dimming with reefkeeper and ALC and then start tinkering with DIY controllers so I needed to go with the D type, not knowing it would be more difficult down the road.

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/12/2010, 10:35 AM

Not much more difficult. You basically need to convert the Arduino's 5v ~500Hz PWM signal to a 0-10v analog signal. This can be a pretty simple circuit, do some googling.

Or, you can make use of the I2C, One Wire, Serial, or SPI busses on the Arduino and use an external IC to generate the signal in response to commands from the Arduino. This is the route I would go, especially on a larger build, since it gives you more flexibility and doesn't tie up the precious PWM pins on the Arduino itself..

vnguyen · 02/12/2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

If crudely dimming LEDs is the only thing you want to do, it's very easy with an Arduino, especially if you go for a PWM-dimmable driver (buckpucks, P-type ELNs). Two wires, and three of four lines of code modified in the "fade" example sketch included with the Arduino software. More fashionable dimming is easy too, because several people have already written and shared code.

To date, I've used an external RTC with my arduino LED dimmers, but you could use the clock to count time, especially with the new time library.

The only real problem with using an Arduino like this is that it's easy to get carried away. You start out thinking "oh I'll just use it to dim LEDs" and before you know it, you're trying to download weather data from the great barrier reef in realtime so you can match your VFD-controlled closed loop to current wave strengths in nature.

Could you post or show me the link to the complete part(s) and software need to do the dimming option for LED using PWM meanwell?
Thanks!

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/12/2010, 10:47 AM

Hardware:

1) An Arduino or compatible microcontroller. There's a list of official hardware here:

http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Hardware

There are also a TON of "unofficial" compatibles. Price ranges from $12 - $60. For these purposes, any of them will work just fine. It's probably best practice to get a Duemilanove (the current reference design) or 100% compatible, since that will give you the most compatibility with other hardware if you want to do other things.

2) Some wire, solder, a project box, etc.

3) Optional - a real time clock. This will improve timekeeping accuracy, and add a failsafe since most RTCs are backed up via battery, so the controller will know what time it is if a power outage occurs. Sparkfun sells one based on the DS1307 but it's rather overpriced.

Software:

1) The Arduino environment. This is downloadable here:

http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Software

That will allow you to write and upload programs (sketches) to the Arduino's processor. You don't strictly need this software, but it makes things vastly easier if you're just getting started.

2) A sketch - Arduino calls programs "sketches." You need to write or find a sketch to dim the lights for you. I mentioned the "fade" example above. This is a simple program that just ramps an output pin up and down. From there, it can get as complicated as your heart desires. Several folks have posted examples of what they've done in different threads, maybe they can repost here. Typically, a sketch will iterate through a loop indefinitely. At the beginning of the loop, it will check what time it is, and perhaps other conditions. Then, it will set the output pins connected to the LED drivers to the appropriate value, and then it just repeats.

vnguyen · 02/12/2010, 10:59 AM

DWZM,
Thanks alot for the info! I'm start looking @ this now as I'm waiting for LED. I've not decide on which driver that I'm going to use yet (either manual or PWM). Is there a thread/link that show step-by-step on how to connect the Duemilanove to the meanwell driver? I saw on the Duemilanove board that has pin label PWM on pin 3,5,6,9,10,11. Do we connect the cable from the meanwell to these pins? Let say I'll have 4 driver to power 48 LEDs. Could you show me how to connect these driver to the board?
Thanks!

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/12/2010, 11:03 AM

Yes, you have the basic ideas - the PWM pins have the ability to provide a PWM signal, so you connect those pin(s) to the driver's dimming circuit, then connect the GND from the dimming circuit to the Arduino's GND.

I don't really want to attempt any more specific discussion than that with meanwell drivers because I've never used them (I build my own drivers.

) - I know others have done this, so maybe they can provide photos or more specific information - but in the end, it's pretty simple.

evilc66 · 02/12/2010, 01:07 PM

It would have to be experimented with, but you could probably just pwm the ELN "D"s. It will all be down to the rise and fall response of the analog input, but with a low frequency pwm, it could work. PWM to 0-10v is a little harder.

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/12/2010, 01:16 PM

Problem is, "on" for the Arduino's PWM pins means 5v, so you'd be dimming against half brightness. Though you could run the PWM pin to a small signal transistor and use that to switch 10v against the DIM circuit, but at that point you might as well just filter it smooth. Or use a P-type ELN.

evilc66 · 02/12/2010, 02:35 PM

The "P" ELN will still require a 10v signal for the pwm, so it's possible that the two drivers could be interchangeable.

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/16/2010, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evilc66

The "P" ELN will still require a 10v signal for the pwm

Somehow I missed that in the datasheet. I too wonder if they're the same, except the "P" model has an R-C filter or something.

This calls for a revision to my statements above about connecting it to an Arduino!

evilc66 · 02/16/2010, 08:38 AM

I have a few "D"s and a simple 555 timer pwm generator. Time for a test I think.

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/16/2010, 10:58 AM

I just started drawing a schematic for an Arduino shield with a 10v reg and some signal transistors to "convert" the PWM signal from the Arduino to 10v. At the least, this would work for a P type. Assuming evilc66's test confirms that the D type can take a 10v PWM signal, this shield would be able to dim either ELN.

But of course I have no ELNs to test on. Volunteers?

Skeptic_07 · 02/16/2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

I just started drawing a schematic for an Arduino shield with a 10v reg and some signal transistors to "convert" the PWM signal from the Arduino to 10v. At the least, this would work for a P type. Assuming evilc66's test confirms that the D type can take a 10v PWM signal, this shield would be able to dim either ELN.

But of course I have no ELNs to test on. Volunteers?

I have 4 of them right now, just waiting to be used. I'm waiting on 2 more before I start building and have still not finalized everything yet so I could probably sacrifice one since I need to order more anyway. should mention again i have D type

evilc66 · 02/16/2010, 11:58 AM

I have "D"s and "P"s so I will be able to test both. I know my little 555 timer pwm circuit works for the "P"s at 1KHz. We shall see if that's too high for the "D"s.

Fortunately, the Arduino's "analog" output is 490Hz, and within the input frequency range (100Hz-3KHz), so dimming should be easy.

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/16/2010, 12:26 PM

Either of you have a Duemilanove-compatible Arduino?

Skeptic_07 · 02/16/2010, 12:38 PM

no... lol.. that is way over my head..

der_wille_zur_macht · 02/16/2010, 12:43 PM

$30 and an hour of reading and you'll be able to use an Arduino. If I can do it, anyone can.

02/11/2010, 01:10 PM	#26
evilc66 Registered Member. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	Not to bad when you paint by numbers. All of these parts can be bought at Radioshack. This will accept 12-32v and still work perfectly. Last edited by evilc66; 02/11/2010 at 01:18 PM.

02/12/2010, 09:53 AM	#33
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	If crudely dimming LEDs is the only thing you want to do, it's very easy with an Arduino, especially if you go for a PWM-dimmable driver (buckpucks, P-type ELNs). Two wires, and three of four lines of code modified in the "fade" example sketch included with the Arduino software. More fashionable dimming is easy too, because several people have already written and shared code. To date, I've used an external RTC with my arduino LED dimmers, but you could use the clock to count time, especially with the new time library. The only real problem with using an Arduino like this is that it's easy to get carried away. You start out thinking "oh I'll just use it to dim LEDs" and before you know it, you're trying to download weather data from the great barrier reef in realtime so you can match your VFD-controlled closed loop to current wave strengths in nature. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/12/2010, 10:35 AM	#35
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Not much more difficult. You basically need to convert the Arduino's 5v ~500Hz PWM signal to a 0-10v analog signal. This can be a pretty simple circuit, do some googling. Or, you can make use of the I2C, One Wire, Serial, or SPI busses on the Arduino and use an external IC to generate the signal in response to commands from the Arduino. This is the route I would go, especially on a larger build, since it gives you more flexibility and doesn't tie up the precious PWM pins on the Arduino itself.. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/12/2010, 10:47 AM	#37
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Hardware: 1) An Arduino or compatible microcontroller. There's a list of official hardware here: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Hardware There are also a TON of "unofficial" compatibles. Price ranges from $12 - $60. For these purposes, any of them will work just fine. It's probably best practice to get a Duemilanove (the current reference design) or 100% compatible, since that will give you the most compatibility with other hardware if you want to do other things. 2) Some wire, solder, a project box, etc. 3) Optional - a real time clock. This will improve timekeeping accuracy, and add a failsafe since most RTCs are backed up via battery, so the controller will know what time it is if a power outage occurs. Sparkfun sells one based on the DS1307 but it's rather overpriced. Software: 1) The Arduino environment. This is downloadable here: http://arduino.cc/en/Main/Software That will allow you to write and upload programs (sketches) to the Arduino's processor. You don't strictly need this software, but it makes things vastly easier if you're just getting started. 2) A sketch - Arduino calls programs "sketches." You need to write or find a sketch to dim the lights for you. I mentioned the "fade" example above. This is a simple program that just ramps an output pin up and down. From there, it can get as complicated as your heart desires. Several folks have posted examples of what they've done in different threads, maybe they can repost here. Typically, a sketch will iterate through a loop indefinitely. At the beginning of the loop, it will check what time it is, and perhaps other conditions. Then, it will set the output pins connected to the LED drivers to the appropriate value, and then it just repeats. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/12/2010, 11:03 AM	#39
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Yes, you have the basic ideas - the PWM pins have the ability to provide a PWM signal, so you connect those pin(s) to the driver's dimming circuit, then connect the GND from the dimming circuit to the Arduino's GND. I don't really want to attempt any more specific discussion than that with meanwell drivers because I've never used them (I build my own drivers. ) - I know others have done this, so maybe they can provide photos or more specific information - but in the end, it's pretty simple. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/11/2010, 05:39 PM	#28
niffer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 14	this might be a dumb question, but will you have to control this manually, or can it be automated?

02/11/2010, 05:46 PM	#29
evilc66 Registered Member. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	Hook the driver directly to a Reefkeeper with an ALC, Apex, or Profilux, and you don't need any of this stuff, and it will automate everything.

02/12/2010, 01:31 AM	#30
Gomer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Posts: 1,049	Keep in mind that the Meanwell ELN-60-48D doesn't do well when you exceed 10.6v

02/12/2010, 09:41 AM	#32
evilc66 Registered Member. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	That's a great option too if you want to learn how to program. I need to get off my butt and finish mine. Too many other things going on.

02/12/2010, 10:30 AM	#34
Skeptic_07 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: lawn guy land Posts: 1,418	DWZM.. how much more difficult is it do use an adruino to dim the D type meanwells? I only ask because my plans was to get my fixture up and dimming with reefkeeper and ALC and then start tinkering with DIY controllers so I needed to go with the D type, not knowing it would be more difficult down the road.

02/12/2010, 10:59 AM	#38
vnguyen Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: milpitas Posts: 74	DWZM, Thanks alot for the info! I'm start looking @ this now as I'm waiting for LED. I've not decide on which driver that I'm going to use yet (either manual or PWM). Is there a thread/link that show step-by-step on how to connect the Duemilanove to the meanwell driver? I saw on the Duemilanove board that has pin label PWM on pin 3,5,6,9,10,11. Do we connect the cable from the meanwell to these pins? Let say I'll have 4 driver to power 48 LEDs. Could you show me how to connect these driver to the board? Thanks!

02/12/2010, 01:07 PM	#40
evilc66 Registered Member. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	It would have to be experimented with, but you could probably just pwm the ELN "D"s. It will all be down to the rise and fall response of the analog input, but with a low frequency pwm, it could work. PWM to 0-10v is a little harder.

02/12/2010, 01:16 PM	#41
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Problem is, "on" for the Arduino's PWM pins means 5v, so you'd be dimming against half brightness. Though you could run the PWM pin to a small signal transistor and use that to switch 10v against the DIM circuit, but at that point you might as well just filter it smooth. Or use a P-type ELN. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/12/2010, 02:35 PM	#42
evilc66 Registered Member. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	The "P" ELN will still require a 10v signal for the pwm, so it's possible that the two drivers could be interchangeable.

02/16/2010, 08:38 AM	#44
evilc66 Registered Member. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	I have a few "D"s and a simple 555 timer pwm generator. Time for a test I think.

02/16/2010, 10:58 AM	#45
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	I just started drawing a schematic for an Arduino shield with a 10v reg and some signal transistors to "convert" the PWM signal from the Arduino to 10v. At the least, this would work for a P type. Assuming evilc66's test confirms that the D type can take a 10v PWM signal, this shield would be able to dim either ELN. But of course I have no ELNs to test on. Volunteers? __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/16/2010, 11:58 AM	#47
evilc66 Registered Member. Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 245	I have "D"s and "P"s so I will be able to test both. I know my little 555 timer pwm circuit works for the "P"s at 1KHz. We shall see if that's too high for the "D"s. Fortunately, the Arduino's "analog" output is 490Hz, and within the input frequency range (100Hz-3KHz), so dimming should be easy.

02/16/2010, 12:26 PM	#48
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Either of you have a Duemilanove-compatible Arduino? __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

02/16/2010, 12:38 PM	#49
Skeptic_07 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: lawn guy land Posts: 1,418	no... lol.. that is way over my head..

02/16/2010, 12:43 PM	#50
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	$30 and an hour of reading and you'll be able to use an Arduino. If I can do it, anyone can. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)