blue tang and yellow tang together?

[jbird69]

Originally Posted by Chris27

Do not do this huh? Who are you folks to tell me that I'm a fool? Do you tank pride in insulting a fellow reefer? What references can you provide stating that this is a bad idea and detrimental to the fish? The only argument I can see is if you were to be returning the fish to the ocean, and this is a rare occurrence, given that most folks don't reside on a tropical island in the South Pacific?

A tang's defense mechanism is the tang, when it's gone it's only a matter of time until they realize that all that tail slapping is doing nothing....they will stop fighting, and in the event there is a scuffle down the road, they won't be able to inflict damage on each other. This is a method that isn't widely known, however it is very effective. A number of other reefers, as well as myself use this method with great success and I can't imagine that this is localized to VaBeach reefers.

A comparison was made to de-clawing a cat - now you're talking about apples and oranges - folks de-claw cats so they don't destroy furniture and molding, it's not done to cut back on aggression. I will tell you though, that neutering dogs and cats aids in cohabitation by removing the sexual / dominant male factor from the equation. I have a whole house full of animals, and I was able to see a dramatic decrease in fighting and aggression once my animals were fixed, most notable are the female cats, as they get downright viscous to other female cats when they are in heat.

The procedure is very simple:

1. Sterilize a pair of sharp toenail clippers.
2. Hold the tang in your palm, and in one quick motion clip the tang off, turn the fish over and clip the other off. The important part is to clip, and not pull the tang off, so a sharp pair of clippers is necessary.
3. Put the fish into a bucket of tank water that is treated with a product that restores the slime coat such as Stress Guard or Stress Coat for a few min.
4. Return it to the tank.

Since you're only cutting bone and not flesh, there isn't much of a concern of infection, so as long as the water is clean, the fish will heal very quickly.

Im curious, have you done this procedure to your tangs?

[krowleey]

Originally Posted by lilboy88

I have a 6ft long 125g display tank with a blue hippo tang, a powder blue tang, a vlamingi tang, and a yellow tang. They are all about 3 in long and they seem to be happy. there is alot of rock work for them. would you say that it is too small of a tank for them?

4 is pushing it, i have 3. Kole, yellow and blue in my 125. but then again i don't agree with people that try to explain a tang needs at least 8 ft of swimming room, and at least 200 gallons. Like that is a drop in a bucket of any fishes habitat. it's like living your life in your living room. And adding a bonus room on to "thrive". 6 of one half a dozen of another.

[OrionN]

Originally Posted by lilboy88

I have a 6ft long 125g display tank with a blue hippo tang, a powder blue tang, a vlamingi tang, and a yellow tang. They are all about 3 in long and they seem to be happy. there is alot of rock work for them. would you say that it is too small of a tank for them?

It is too small for the Vlamingi tang. They should not be place in tanks. Most of fish with streamers are all open water fish. Won't be happy in tank.

[Chris27]

Originally Posted by jbird69

Im curious, have you done this procedure to your tangs?

Yes - the last one I did was my Clown Tang.

[Chris27]

Originally Posted by OrionN

This is the most stupid thing I have read in a long time. I agree with TampaReefer79.
Remove the spike may make it harder for the fish to spear each other. It does not do anything to the stress of the fish. You will get stressed out and sick tangs.

Why is it stupid? Do you have some scientific data to back it up?

The stupid reply is the "You will get stressed out and sick tangs" really.....are you that naive...or perhaps just an inexperienced fish keeper.....this happens when stupid owners fail to adopt an effective QT practice, and allow parasites to live happily in their display. If the whole stressed and sick tang thing were even remotely true, then simply moving a fish from the store, to your tank would give you "stressed out and sick tangs."

I am definitely open to some suggestions about better ways to do this, or even a compelling reason not to do it, but the "this is stupid" or "are you twisted" reply's are childish and immature.

[Chris27]

Originally Posted by jbird69

Im curious, have you done this procedure to your tangs?

Yes - the last one I did was my Clown Tang.

[lilboy88]

Originally Posted by krowleey

it's the spine that all tangs have at the end of their tail. (surgeonfish)

not all tangs have it most of them do though

[phoenix3717]

I've just recently introduced a Blue Tang to a tank with an existing Yellow Tang. However, I caught my YT, placed him in my sump, aquascaped, and reintroduced the YT after a few days. There was some initial aggression but they've "seem" to mellow out. I leave algae in the tank for them to graze and will probably create another grazing area so they don't fight over the one piece. I keep two Bangaii's (currently with eggs!), two clowns, a firefish, a six line, a springer dottyback and they all get along extremely well except the six line and dottyback. Now a Yellow and Blue Tang as well in a 135, 6 foot tank with plenty of swimming space.

So far this is what I've gathered. As with all individual tanks, something that works for one may not work for the other. I've read yes, I've read no, I've also read do it this way and it works but that isn't 100% but I don't think anything is. I generally follow what the majority of people do.

Tangs of a different species generally tolerate each other. Yellows and Hippos, Yellow and Naso's. Same species (body shape) generally don't like each other.

Yellows should be introduced last because generally they are the most aggressive. If you have a YT already, I've been told to aquascape and/or place the yellow in the sump until the new tang has becomes comfortable then reintroduce the YT.

I've heard if your going to keep Tangs of the same body shape, to keep at least 3. I don't know how true this is because Tangs require room and another would just take up more space but this goes for Arowana's (yea far from a Tang but wth), you can't keep two but you can keep more.

1 Tang needs at least 75+ gallons with 100+ being the reccommendation

120+ for 2 Tangs, ideally larger.

Again what works for someone might not work for others so take everything with a grain of salt. And if you're doing everything the majority of people tell you and it's not working, YOU are not doing something right as much as you think you are. Sorry for the long reply...just my $.02

[sabazerehi]

k i'm gonna try to catch the blue tang and get the yellow tang instead, and find the blue tang a bigger home. thanks for the info guys.

[TampaReefer79]

Originally Posted by lilboy88

not all tangs have it most of them do though

Absolutely true. And some have more than others! lol The Naso for example has 4 (2 on each side), but they are in fixed position as opposed to say an Achilles which has 2 (one on either side) that lays against the body in a little groove. When the fish slaps his tail, the bone/spine will jet out and inflict damage. I've read of a yellow tang getting his stomach opened up by another tang and his intestines fell out. He actually healed and lived according to the owner...I wish I remember where I read that...

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by Chris27

The stupid reply is the "You will get stressed out and sick tangs" really.....are you that naive...or perhaps just an inexperienced fish keeper.....this happens when stupid owners fail to adopt an effective QT practice, and allow parasites to live happily in their display. If the whole stressed and sick tang thing were even remotely true, then simply moving a fish from the store, to your tank would give you "stressed out and sick tangs."

I am definitely open to some suggestions about better ways to do this, or even a compelling reason not to do it, but the "this is stupid" or "are you twisted" reply's are childish and immature.

Let's keep the personal attacks out of this thread.

And as for a better way.... how about not keeping certain fish together instead of doing this "procedure"

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by OrionN

This is the most stupid thing I have read in a long time.

Me too. I don't think anything I have ever read on any website, in any book, or magazine other then Mad Magazine or The Onion even comes close to this.

[TampaReefer79]

Originally Posted by Toddrtrex

And as for a better way.... how about not keeping certain fish together instead of doing this "procedure"

Originally Posted by Jeff

Me too. I don't think anything I have ever read on any website, in any book, or magazine other then Mad Magazine or The Onion even comes close to this.

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Chris27

Why is it stupid? Do you have some scientific data to back it up?

Since when do people need scientific data to know that mutilating animals so that you can keep more of them in a confined space not normal? Sorry, but I really feel that it is horrible advice.

[Chris27]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Since when do people need scientific data to know that mutilating animals so that you can keep more of them in a confined space not normal? Sorry, but I really feel that it is horrible advice.

It's true that they are kept in a confined space, but it's not necessarily done in an effort to keep more, it's to keep them from constantly damaging each other during every scuffle. Some folks may think it's inhumane, but the real problem is how we get these fish to our aquariums...Does a south pacific islander dive onto a reef and gently scoop a fish up in a bucket, or do they net them in quantity or perhaps even use explosives? Is the fish then put into a large bag and insulated box for shipment, or are they carelessly thrown into a large vat, rarely fed, and then mass shipped to LA?

Do it or don't do it, it's up to the individual reefer, but I was personally attacked by folks sticking with the normal way of thinking. This hobby has moved forward by creative thinkers, not followers. Methods like protein skimming, GFO, GAC, Berlin, Jaubert, limewater and carbon dosing came about from creativity and a genuine desire to better the hobby. If it weren't for forward thinking, we surely wouldn't have SPS dominated tanks lit by light bulbs designed to mimic sunlight, and we sure wouldn't be able to keep water perfectly clean for the delicate livestock we all thrive to acquire.

[sdc19982002]

If your worried about how their collected then don't buy them, thats the sollution to that problem. cutting off their defense mechanism is obsurd. If they are fighting they dont need to be in there,there is a reason their not happy. Next time two dog's fight I guess they need thier teeth ripped out instead of being permenently seperated. Or what do we do when kids don't get along.... Point is dont keep them together if there's a problem,dont alter the fish for your gains.

My manderin doesnt swim fast enough to catch the food and it's mouth is too small. Think I'll wire it's mouth open and stap a powerhead to it's --- to fatten him up.

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by Chris27

.............
Do it or don't do it, it's up to the individual reefer, but I was personally attacked by folks sticking with the normal way of thinking. This hobby has moved forward by creative thinkers, not followers. Methods like protein skimming, GFO, GAC, Berlin, Jaubert, limewater and carbon dosing came about from creativity and a genuine desire to better the hobby. If it weren't for forward thinking, we surely wouldn't have SPS dominated tanks lit by light bulbs designed to mimic sunlight, and we sure wouldn't be able to keep water perfectly clean for the delicate livestock we all thrive to acquire.

I don't see how you can compare creative ways of keeping a tank with cutting off the "scalpel" from a tang. To me, that comes no where near bettering the hobby, in fact, IMO, it moves the hobby backwards.

[Navyblue]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Me too. I don't think anything I have ever read on any website, in any book, or magazine other then Mad Magazine or The Onion even comes close to this.

I have. The 7th and 9th mail from the top, there are probably more.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/tangfaqs.htm

Just FYI, not that I endorse one way or the other. Btw the tang will grow back, pretty much like finger nails. The same thing is also being done to puffer's teeth.

[scott26]

Honestly I dont see it being to bad to cut the tang off if the person wishes its there fish and from the sounds of it doesn't sound like it is hurting the fish for more then the time it takes to cut it off and if it is like a "fingernail" then it really shouldn't hurt and we should do it like we do our dogs or cats just think of it as "trimming"

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Chris27

It's true that they are kept in a confined space, but it's not necessarily done in an effort to keep more, it's to keep them from constantly damaging each other during every scuffle. Some folks may think it's inhumane, but the real problem is how we get these fish to our aquariums...Does a south pacific islander dive onto a reef and gently scoop a fish up in a bucket, or do they net them in quantity or perhaps even use explosives? Is the fish then put into a large bag and insulated box for shipment, or are they carelessly thrown into a large vat, rarely fed, and then mass shipped to LA?

Do it or don't do it, it's up to the individual reefer, but I was personally attacked by folks sticking with the normal way of thinking. This hobby has moved forward by creative thinkers, not followers. Methods like protein skimming, GFO, GAC, Berlin, Jaubert, limewater and carbon dosing came about from creativity and a genuine desire to better the hobby. If it weren't for forward thinking, we surely wouldn't have SPS dominated tanks lit by light bulbs designed to mimic sunlight, and we sure wouldn't be able to keep water perfectly clean for the delicate livestock we all thrive to acquire.

Don't confuse yourself with the pioneers of reefkeeping, your statistics state that you have 3 years in the hobby. Your idea of "neutering" a fish by chopping off it's natural, unique feature is absurd. Your "forward" thinking as you put it is not on the same level as anything you listed and don't start back-pedeling now by making it sound like it's ok because you "feel" like it's the same as trimming toenails. Preparing a fish for transport and mutilating it after you buy it for your way of keeping pets are two different things.
Sorry I have become so enraged at your posts and I do understand that you have a unique way of keeping fish and have every right to voice your opinions but what do you think just happened to your reputation in this hobby? Do you really think that others are going to be able to read your posts and give you any benefit of the doubt based on experience or your revolutionary thinking?

[scott26]

Let me grab some popcorn... this is intense.

[timdam]

i'm not condoning anything. but since i haven't done it or seen it done, my question is "does it hurt the fish"? if it is truly like cutting a fingernail, i would assume not so much.

yall's thoughts? (imma grab some popcorn too)

[jaybfresh]

Probably more like cutting off a finger...

[jbird69]

howabout we combine compatible fish and not cut anything off?

[CorkPullerPHL]

JBird69 +1

These absurd and misguided methods are why this site needs tang police.