I have a question. How much in percentage is your coral livestock captive bred??? - Page 2

dlmkmm · 02/26/2010, 09:19 AM

3 pieces of sps, 100% captive.
3 pieces of lps , 100% captive.
1 clown fish, 100% captive

From what I understand, captive corals do so much better in our tanks than from the wild. And with all the fragging going on now and buinesses like ORA there really is not much of a need for the wild caught corals.

cdbdis · 02/26/2010, 09:59 AM

1/65 SPS is maricultured / zero wild
1 Frogspawn Wild

98.2% captive

advaquatics · 02/26/2010, 11:05 AM

I'm @ 100% on corals and 35% on fish......Hopefully someday alot more fish will raised in captivity.....

CleveYank · 05/25/2011, 05:54 AM

ttt

Alex T. · 05/25/2011, 06:04 AM

Im over 90% Aquacultured Corals.

NatureNerd · 05/25/2011, 08:22 AM

100% of all my corals are aquaculture. I do not know where my anemone originated from. It may be a captive cloned animal or wild caught.

jc-reef · 05/25/2011, 08:50 AM

I know that at least 70% came from fellow reefers tanks & cuts from my LFS (small frags/polyps)...which came from mother colonies living in the tanks for several years.

I cannot verify the ones that were purchased from frag swaps...although most from the swaps have been aquacultured for a while encrusted on plugs.

I believe my fish are 100% wild caught though.

-----------

M88A2 · 05/25/2011, 09:16 AM

another 100% captive bred. for me the selection of captive bred are more than adequate and are easier on the funds. i like the idea of the thread but u may fine some bias as people who are heavily stocked on wild corals may be less inclined to participate.

Chris Lakies · 05/25/2011, 09:55 AM

100% on corals being frags or from farmed or captive tanks.

The one fish i have (sixline wrasse) is not.

Cuc is not captive bread.

phenom5 · 05/25/2011, 11:03 AM

SPS-100%
LPS-no idea
Zoa-100%
Fish-33%
Crabs/ snails/ etc-no idea
LR-0%

newbie916 · 05/25/2011, 04:03 PM

I'd say my corals are 90-95% captive bred that I got from other reefers. Most are lineaged pieces, so I know they've been in captivity for several generations. I have a maricultured acro colony, a chalice frag, and maybe 5 sps frags that are wild from over 100 different kinds of coral that I have in my 3 tanks. I believe most experienced reefers will buy aquacultured pieces, but some newer to the hobby would rather spend $60 on a colony than $60 on a 3/4" frag. Until they realize that many of those colonies brown out, rtn, stn, and could come with unwanted pests. I will have to admit that if I do see some nice maricultured frags I will try them out. Some are awesome like the Strawberry Shortcakes the recently came in from Australia.

ati70cutlass · 05/25/2011, 04:13 PM

i would rather spend an extra 20.00 on a coral knowing that it is captive and that i am not taking anything from the reef. i think this is totally being responsilbe and i wont have it any other way. i would rather get an ugly coral over a wild specimen that is beautiful. thats just me. i use to be a hunter and killed lots of animals. i havent in over 3 years and it feels good

MammothReefer · 05/25/2011, 04:50 PM

Everything but my frags are wild. (or maricultured)

I would say 70-80% of my tank is wild, but that means nothing to me.

I read years ago 99% of marine animals sold for hobbyist die in the first year. I'm sorry but if you are really conscious about reefs you wouldn't have a reef tank. I don't see the point in sugar coating it and pretending like we care. We don't, we only care that we don't waste our money if our corals die on us. Even if you bought 1 wild piece once, fish, coral ect, or even if you only buy captive the amount of corals that died to pave the way for the one captive piece to thrive and make it into your tank is astronomical. You really can't win this argument if you look at the bigger picture. Now that doesn't mean to say that our actions are having an negative impact on the reefs. Only that you shouldn't try to claim to love cows over a steak dinner conversation.

israel.kendall · 05/25/2011, 05:19 PM

I'm about 85% aquacultered. That being said, buying only aquacultured frags doesn't necessarily lessen the impact on the reefs. With the hype and crazy prices on some corals, it creates a goldrush type of effect. More pressure is put on collectors to try to find the next big thing, the next wammalamadingdong chalice or whatever. They are going to pull thousands of corals out of the ocean in hopes of finding another new moneymaker.

So while buying aquacultured has its plusses for sure, it doesn't really lead to lower collection rates from the ocean IMO. And if the aquacultured corals you're buying are "high end" then you're likely helping to increase the collection of wild corals in a roundabout way.

SPSEMPIRE · 05/25/2011, 07:41 PM

I'm just going to say that I have seen it all and I agree with MammothReefer. The whole industry is fishy, all around.

90% SPS and 10% LPS
50% Imported and 50% Aquacultured (I've cultured all of them myself)

betamed · 05/25/2011, 09:03 PM

90% cultured. plus 100's of frags supplied back to the LFS. I don't know if the OP wanted this to be a debate. my opinion this hobby might not be the best thing for wild reefs, but that doesn't mean I will be irresponsible with my stocking and will provide the best care I can for my corals.

MammothReefer · 05/25/2011, 11:18 PM

There is no way to have a reef tank and be responsible it's like saying. I love to kill but I'm responsible I only kill criminals. Any support of the hobby in ANY manner opens the door for a 99% mortality rate the first year in captivity, but with that said. Imop fish = food source and corals as awesome as they are just barely more complex then plants. When we fumigate our house and kill millions of insects do we say well.. you know if there was a responsible way to evict the termites without killing them I would go that route. No of course not and insect are MUCH higher on the food chain then corals. We don't care about the millions of mysis, krill, or anything else we kill to feed our tanks, or killing any pests that dare threaten our rare expensive corals. Why shouldn't an AEFW have just as much right to live as your acropora? You want to be an environmentalist great! Save the reefs, but don't keep a tank and then claim you are responsible or care. That's a blatant contradiction. oh and don't think give the tables being turned you would see any pity living out on the reef if say you were a little copepod. Corals/Reefs are the most dog-eat-dog cut throat part of our ecosystem I have ever had the pleasure of learning about and observing..

If I can't eat you, I will Smoother you, If i can't smoother you I will sting you, if I can't sting you I will poison you. You think corals feel bad for each other when they kill each other?

thelostrican · 05/26/2011, 04:09 AM

About 95 of my corals come from friends tanks...

sfsuphysics · 05/26/2011, 11:36 AM

Can't remember where most of my stuff came from, I'd be willing to bet it was captive bred (other reefers tanks)... a few pieces from stores that came on frag plugs, not sure if those are captive mariculture from overseas or something that was done here at wholesalers...

however while you can get on your high horse about being captive bred, there is another side to wild caught. If its from places that collect responsibly (i.e. don't go in with a crowbar destroying a bunch of corals just to get one timid fish) you could actually be helping the reefs by buying wild (or maricultured) caught stuff. Simply put they don't see much money where corals are, by injecting your money into their economy (even if it gets split 6 ways to Sunday), which that can use to make sure that their resource stays viable, to protect against poachers, etc... however its their waters, their resources so they need to understand what they have and ultimately they make the decisions.

As it stands the largest issue facing these islands is construction... coral makes a great component to concrete mixtures, it's available, abundant, and cheap as snot (compared to shipping it in), what are you going to tell them? Stop building? If they find out there is a viable economic resource they might be less likely to strip mine all for the components to build on land... if you boycott all wild caught products you're basically telling them that there is no economy in keeping the coral reefs in tact and healthy and your "good" intentions actually have bad consequences. Eco-tourism is great, but you can have both eco-tourism and healthy collection of corals.

While most of my stuff in my tank is from other tanks, it's mostly because I'm a cheap booger

Arguments of fuel cost to fly them ... irrelevant simply put planes don't fly with just corals, planes with people fly out of those regions, corals simply ride in the cargo hold if there's room.

tahiriqbal · 05/26/2011, 04:39 PM

All my SPS and LPS grew from frags, bought from fellow reefers. Got 19 fish in total from which my unicorn tang and copper band are wild caught and rest are captive bread.

markie mark · 05/26/2011, 07:03 PM

about 90% of mine are wild acro colonies just because I dont want the same cultured corals as the everybody else....I'm sure it takes a toll on the reefs but somebody is gonna by them so why not me...of course I do make wholesale ordres so its a bit easier for me to say,well i'm gonna keep this one..but i do prop alot of them and always try to keep 1 frag to grow into a mother colony....

reefmanmatt · 05/29/2011, 06:11 AM

truthfully i dont know . seems like you put a lot of trust in people who are selling you things at a profit .....i have bought many bigger colonies to frag up and kept a few small pieces for my display , does this then then make the frags aquacultured since they have grown ? most pet stores order from other countries .....

droth335 · 05/29/2011, 05:05 PM

SPS - 100% captive (mostly from other local reefers)
LPS - ~50% captive
Fish - 30% captive

SPSEMPIRE · 05/30/2011, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reefmanmatt

truthfully i dont know . seems like you put a lot of trust in people who are selling you things at a profit .....i have bought many bigger colonies to frag up and kept a few small pieces for my display , does this then then make the frags aquacultured since they have grown ? most pet stores order from other countries .....

Not to get too far off subject but a true aquacultured process takes about 1 year from start to finish. Although you do see encrusting 1st generation frags become more hardy than their mother colony, 2nd generations frags are incredibly hardier than than 1st. The coral is usually considered aquacultured when they get to their 3rd generation.

dvanacker · 05/30/2011, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MammothReefer

Everything but my frags are wild. (or maricultured)

I would say 70-80% of my tank is wild, but that means nothing to me.

I read years ago 99% of marine animals sold for hobbyist die in the first year. I'm sorry but if you are really conscious about reefs you wouldn't have a reef tank. I don't see the point in sugar coating it and pretending like we care. We don't, we only care that we don't waste our money if our corals die on us.

Hmmmm....you point has merit but I cant say that I agree 100% to what you are saying.

I care about the environment..... but I still drive a car.

I care about the treatment of animals....but I still eat meat.

Does this make me a hypocrite. Maybe but we all are sometimes.

02/26/2010, 09:19 AM	#26
dlmkmm Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Homestead, Fl Posts: 61	3 pieces of sps, 100% captive. 3 pieces of lps , 100% captive. 1 clown fish, 100% captive From what I understand, captive corals do so much better in our tanks than from the wild. And with all the fragging going on now and buinesses like ORA there really is not much of a need for the wild caught corals. __________________ 29g sps & lps budget build 4 years in the making, 175w Iwasaki 15k, 2 Powerbright actinics, Koralia 1 & 2, 29g sump, Octopus NW-110, phosban reactor, DIY hanging light hood, stand, and sump. Current Tank Info: 29 gallon sps and lps, 175w se 20k XM, Vorteck MP10, 29 gallon sump, octopus nw-110

02/26/2010, 09:59 AM	#27
cdbdis Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: anytown,usa Posts: 42	1/65 SPS is maricultured / zero wild 1 Frogspawn Wild 98.2% captive __________________ Just remember....when things are really bad, 1 billion people in China couldn't care less. Current Tank Info: 155gal reef/lr/ls/sps/lps/softies/halides

05/25/2011, 08:50 AM	#32
jc-reef Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Treasure Coast, Florida Posts: 969	I know that at least 70% came from fellow reefers tanks & cuts from my LFS (small frags/polyps)...which came from mother colonies living in the tanks for several years. I cannot verify the ones that were purchased from frag swaps...although most from the swaps have been aquacultured for a while encrusted on plugs. I believe my fish are 100% wild caught though. ----------- __________________ My Little Hobby FMAS - Member Current Tank Info: 300gal DD upgraded from 90 gal Mixed Reef Powered by T5 / LED

05/25/2011, 09:55 AM	#34
Chris Lakies Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grand Blanc Michigan Posts: 1,446	100% on corals being frags or from farmed or captive tanks. The one fish i have (sixline wrasse) is not. Cuc is not captive bread. __________________ CL Current Tank Info: 50 breeder, 2 x XR15w pro (G4), 1 x MP40wQD, Apex JR, Ehiem-Jager 200 watt heater, Jabao DC6000 return, Reef Octo 150 elite SSS skimmer

05/25/2011, 11:03 AM	#35
phenom5 Unregistered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,096	SPS-100% LPS-no idea Zoa-100% Fish-33% Crabs/ snails/ etc-no idea LR-0% __________________ Rob Current Tank Info: DSA 155 Pro \| ATI Sunpower \| ATB 840 v2 \| Apex \| Wav

02/26/2010, 11:05 AM	#28
advaquatics Moved On Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 60	I'm @ 100% on corals and 35% on fish......Hopefully someday alot more fish will raised in captivity.....

05/25/2011, 05:54 AM	#29
CleveYank 20 Years and Over Join Date: Feb 2000 Posts: 3,052	ttt

05/25/2011, 06:04 AM	#30
Alex T. Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,803	Im over 90% Aquacultured Corals.

05/25/2011, 08:22 AM	#31
NatureNerd Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 877	100% of all my corals are aquaculture. I do not know where my anemone originated from. It may be a captive cloned animal or wild caught.

05/25/2011, 09:16 AM	#33
M88A2 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Chesapeake, VA Posts: 682	another 100% captive bred. for me the selection of captive bred are more than adequate and are easier on the funds. i like the idea of the thread but u may fine some bias as people who are heavily stocked on wild corals may be less inclined to participate.

05/25/2011, 04:03 PM	#36
newbie916 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 768	I'd say my corals are 90-95% captive bred that I got from other reefers. Most are lineaged pieces, so I know they've been in captivity for several generations. I have a maricultured acro colony, a chalice frag, and maybe 5 sps frags that are wild from over 100 different kinds of coral that I have in my 3 tanks. I believe most experienced reefers will buy aquacultured pieces, but some newer to the hobby would rather spend $60 on a colony than $60 on a 3/4" frag. Until they realize that many of those colonies brown out, rtn, stn, and could come with unwanted pests. I will have to admit that if I do see some nice maricultured frags I will try them out. Some are awesome like the Strawberry Shortcakes the recently came in from Australia.

05/25/2011, 04:13 PM	#37
ati70cutlass Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: mo Posts: 425	i would rather spend an extra 20.00 on a coral knowing that it is captive and that i am not taking anything from the reef. i think this is totally being responsilbe and i wont have it any other way. i would rather get an ugly coral over a wild specimen that is beautiful. thats just me. i use to be a hunter and killed lots of animals. i havent in over 3 years and it feels good

05/25/2011, 04:50 PM	#38
MammothReefer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA Posts: 3,442	Everything but my frags are wild. (or maricultured) I would say 70-80% of my tank is wild, but that means nothing to me. I read years ago 99% of marine animals sold for hobbyist die in the first year. I'm sorry but if you are really conscious about reefs you wouldn't have a reef tank. I don't see the point in sugar coating it and pretending like we care. We don't, we only care that we don't waste our money if our corals die on us. Even if you bought 1 wild piece once, fish, coral ect, or even if you only buy captive the amount of corals that died to pave the way for the one captive piece to thrive and make it into your tank is astronomical. You really can't win this argument if you look at the bigger picture. Now that doesn't mean to say that our actions are having an negative impact on the reefs. Only that you shouldn't try to claim to love cows over a steak dinner conversation. __________________ Reefin @ 8298' Current Tank Info: 105 Peninsula

05/25/2011, 05:19 PM	#39
israel.kendall Padawan Reefer Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Land O Lakes Posts: 922	I'm about 85% aquacultered. That being said, buying only aquacultured frags doesn't necessarily lessen the impact on the reefs. With the hype and crazy prices on some corals, it creates a goldrush type of effect. More pressure is put on collectors to try to find the next big thing, the next wammalamadingdong chalice or whatever. They are going to pull thousands of corals out of the ocean in hopes of finding another new moneymaker. So while buying aquacultured has its plusses for sure, it doesn't really lead to lower collection rates from the ocean IMO. And if the aquacultured corals you're buying are "high end" then you're likely helping to increase the collection of wild corals in a roundabout way.

05/25/2011, 07:41 PM	#40
SPSEMPIRE Moved On Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 491	I'm just going to say that I have seen it all and I agree with MammothReefer. The whole industry is fishy, all around. 90% SPS and 10% LPS 50% Imported and 50% Aquacultured (I've cultured all of them myself)

05/25/2011, 09:03 PM	#41
betamed Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Cooper city fl Posts: 1,383	90% cultured. plus 100's of frags supplied back to the LFS. I don't know if the OP wanted this to be a debate. my opinion this hobby might not be the best thing for wild reefs, but that doesn't mean I will be irresponsible with my stocking and will provide the best care I can for my corals.

05/25/2011, 11:18 PM	#42
MammothReefer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA Posts: 3,442	There is no way to have a reef tank and be responsible it's like saying. I love to kill but I'm responsible I only kill criminals. Any support of the hobby in ANY manner opens the door for a 99% mortality rate the first year in captivity, but with that said. Imop fish = food source and corals as awesome as they are just barely more complex then plants. When we fumigate our house and kill millions of insects do we say well.. you know if there was a responsible way to evict the termites without killing them I would go that route. No of course not and insect are MUCH higher on the food chain then corals. We don't care about the millions of mysis, krill, or anything else we kill to feed our tanks, or killing any pests that dare threaten our rare expensive corals. Why shouldn't an AEFW have just as much right to live as your acropora? You want to be an environmentalist great! Save the reefs, but don't keep a tank and then claim you are responsible or care. That's a blatant contradiction. oh and don't think give the tables being turned you would see any pity living out on the reef if say you were a little copepod. Corals/Reefs are the most dog-eat-dog cut throat part of our ecosystem I have ever had the pleasure of learning about and observing.. If I can't eat you, I will Smoother you, If i can't smoother you I will sting you, if I can't sting you I will poison you. You think corals feel bad for each other when they kill each other? __________________ Reefin @ 8298' Current Tank Info: 105 Peninsula Last edited by MammothReefer; 05/25/2011 at 11:32 PM.

05/26/2011, 04:09 AM	#43
thelostrican I hate to post Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Borinquen Posts: 222	About 95 of my corals come from friends tanks... __________________ Upgrading!!! 120 to 180.... Current Tank Info: 120 long tank...that looks like an investment bank....

05/26/2011, 11:36 AM	#44
sfsuphysics Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Francisco Posts: 9,103	Can't remember where most of my stuff came from, I'd be willing to bet it was captive bred (other reefers tanks)... a few pieces from stores that came on frag plugs, not sure if those are captive mariculture from overseas or something that was done here at wholesalers... however while you can get on your high horse about being captive bred, there is another side to wild caught. If its from places that collect responsibly (i.e. don't go in with a crowbar destroying a bunch of corals just to get one timid fish) you could actually be helping the reefs by buying wild (or maricultured) caught stuff. Simply put they don't see much money where corals are, by injecting your money into their economy (even if it gets split 6 ways to Sunday), which that can use to make sure that their resource stays viable, to protect against poachers, etc... however its their waters, their resources so they need to understand what they have and ultimately they make the decisions. As it stands the largest issue facing these islands is construction... coral makes a great component to concrete mixtures, it's available, abundant, and cheap as snot (compared to shipping it in), what are you going to tell them? Stop building? If they find out there is a viable economic resource they might be less likely to strip mine all for the components to build on land... if you boycott all wild caught products you're basically telling them that there is no economy in keeping the coral reefs in tact and healthy and your "good" intentions actually have bad consequences. Eco-tourism is great, but you can have both eco-tourism and healthy collection of corals. While most of my stuff in my tank is from other tanks, it's mostly because I'm a cheap booger Arguments of fuel cost to fly them ... irrelevant simply put planes don't fly with just corals, planes with people fly out of those regions, corals simply ride in the cargo hold if there's room. __________________ Mike

05/26/2011, 04:39 PM	#45
tahiriqbal Sialkot Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Manchester England UK Posts: 684	All my SPS and LPS grew from frags, bought from fellow reefers. Got 19 fish in total from which my unicorn tang and copper band are wild caught and rest are captive bread. __________________ Tahir Iqbal Manchester UK Current Tank Info: 56cm x 56cm x 56cm

05/26/2011, 07:03 PM	#46
markie mark Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: trussville,al Posts: 184	about 90% of mine are wild acro colonies just because I dont want the same cultured corals as the everybody else....I'm sure it takes a toll on the reefs but somebody is gonna by them so why not me...of course I do make wholesale ordres so its a bit easier for me to say,well i'm gonna keep this one..but i do prop alot of them and always try to keep 1 frag to grow into a mother colony....

05/29/2011, 06:11 AM	#47
reefmanmatt Registered Member. Join Date: May 2011 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 396	truthfully i dont know . seems like you put a lot of trust in people who are selling you things at a profit .....i have bought many bigger colonies to frag up and kept a few small pieces for my display , does this then then make the frags aquacultured since they have grown ? most pet stores order from other countries .....

05/29/2011, 05:05 PM	#48
droth335 Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Iowa Posts: 794	SPS - 100% captive (mostly from other local reefers) LPS - ~50% captive Fish - 30% captive __________________ Dave Current Tank Info: 210 sps dominant reef: 40g sump, kalk,4 reefbreeder photon 32's ; 300DD mixed reef with 180 gallon sump, 4 Reefbreeder Photon 32's.