56 gallon column build (last chance)

[The Escaped Ape]

Hmm. I'm not convinced by the current craze for algae scrubbers. Looks like the latest snake oil to me, but of course, YMMV.

[thetonyage]

lookin good so far man! 2 pieces of advice i can offer would be no turbo snails (i had em in my last tank and they couldnt stop knocking frags over) and maybe go for the t5 lighting instead of mh cuz you might end up needing a chiller (more $). ill be tagging along, keep up the good work.

[reeftanknewbie]

thetonyage,

thanks man, glad your hear. How's your tank coming along? Any pics yet?

Was thinking the same thing about the T5 as I see most with MH have chillers or higher temps to deal with. Hey do you have any suggestions on a nice T5 setup that is reasonable in price? I want to try to find used to save some $. Agreed with the turbo advice, every time I get them they just make a mess of stuff (bull in a china shop affect).

[reeftanknewbie]

Was thinking about looking for a used retro kit. Something like this...any thoughts?


http://www.aquacave.com/icecap-24-4-...ecap-1848.html

[Nebthet]

Sorry for taking a couple of days to get back to you and thanks for responding.

I would defintely use the MH due to the height of the tank of 29.5", even if it is an old unit you have. The PC lighting for a tank of this depth would be only good for supplimental FOWLR lighting.
The T5 option would be better and I would definately suggest a 6 bulb unit for you. This is what I use on my tank as it gives a lot of options for lighting. You can usually find a used set for around $220 or so which isn't too bad.

Since you are thinking of keeping sun corals they like low light area so that would work for keeping them on the bottom, though they may be hard to feed, then you can keep the stronger light corals further up.

I would stay away from tangs in a tank of this width. They like longer tanks for swimming room, and while they are tempting to get when smaller,they grow quickly.

The 4 chromis for a start sounds good. Bengaii cardinals as a suggestion have a lot of character. A goby would be cool. Scissortail gobies are fun to watch and they like being in groups, but they like to jump so you would need a good solid lid on the top because they can get through egg crate.

[reeftanknewbie]

Nebthet,

No problem, just glad to hear back from you. I appreciate the feedback on lighting and stocking. I thought about selling the power compact lighting and MH lighting stuff to help me find a 6 bulb t5 setup (worried about the MH heating the tank too much and having to get a chiller). Do they make them in 30" lengths or would I have to get a 24" unit? I don't have a canopy nor want one so I am thinking about a unit vs. retro kit. Any suggestions on brands? I have only had icecap in the past.

Love the fish Ideas, any suggestions on good starter corals that I might not outgrow but can have to learn to propagate?

[Nebthet]

If you go with the 6 bulb unit, I would suggest for you to get the 36" length set up. It may over hang a bit, but if you choose to upgrade your tank in the future you won't have to buy another light. That, and there are a good number of people downsizing their tanks right now because of the economy and are selling their larger equiptment.

I have the Tek T5 system and I like it.

I don't have a canopy for mine, I actually hung my lights from the ceiling. I went to Walmart and got two packages of their plant holder white chains that hold 50lbs each and connected one to each side of the light. It makes it rather convenient as I am able to move it up and down through the links as needed.

As for making a dark canopy so you don't get a lot of light spillage, I used the poor mans route, and took some insulating vendors use when they send you corals in the mail, and just attached them to the black lip of the tank with velcro. I am sensitive to florescent lighting and it gives me migraines easily, so it helped to block the spillage. One day I will make something nicer looking but for now it works.

Actually, I have found Aussie Duncans to be one of the easiest starter corals available. You can direct feed them if you want, or not. They grow at a really nice rate, and when they fully extend they are mesmerising to watch in the current and when they get large enough they are relatively simple to propogate.

Zoas are fairly simple once you have your system maintenance in control. Took me a year to discover my system needed magnesium dosing. LOL.

I love elegance corals. Many have a hit and miss with them, but I have had mine for over 8 months now and never had an issue with it. When it expands it looks like an anemone that never moves. It is another one I like to watch with it's tentacles waving in the current. My clowns also like to use it as a host.
Others have great success with frogspawn and hammer corals.

If you ever thought of considering any SPS I would suggest MontiCaps and Digis. They grow really fast. I swear you can sit there and watch mine grow and see the differences weekly.

One of the things I like to do when looking for different corals for my system, it to first look at liveaquaria.com and pick out the corals I like by picture.
Then I look up the information they show on the hardiness and level of expertise required

Then with that list I come on forums like these and do specific searches and look through threads looking at pictures other people have of them in their system and read up on any issues they have had and make my final decision that way.

[reeftanknewbie]

Nebthet,

Man can thank you enough for the great information. It's going to take me awhile to digest it all. In the mean time I am going to do some more thinking about the lighting stuff as I don't have a ceiling above my tank (cathedral ceilings of 20') to hang the lights from. May have to get creative.

[reeftanknewbie]

As for the others watching and following thanks and have a question for all of you about the cycle. I will be testing my water again tonight (I do so every other day or so) but am finding that my ammonia is not going over .25ppm which I have never had before in a cycle. Usually for me it would range much higher. To be fair to all of you, I must first start with some background on myself. I am a low-tech reef keeper and try to keep things as simple as possible. I don't usually get involved with gadgets and computer stuff for my tank, just not me. So when I cycle a tank, I usually add live rock, biozyme bacteria, and a piece of uncooked shrimp.

This time, I added my established live rock back into the tank from the holding tank I had them in so they stayed wet and submerged the entire time. I also tried some "live" sand and added the package of "live bacteria" that came with the sand to the tank. I feed the tank flake fish food every other day (usually a pinch or two) and then test for everything. Did I somehow speed up the cycle time of the tank or am I no were ready for the cycle to begin?

Your thoughts and questions are appreciated.

[reeftanknewbie]

capn_hylinur,

you were asking me earlier about some of my mistakes and what went wrong last time. check out this older thread of mine.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1700548

[reeftanknewbie]

Ok so things have slowed a bit on my end as I am waiting for the tank to cycle and for some money to move ahead with the build. Today is day 18 of the cycle and very little has changed with regards to my parameters. Can't really tell if my tank cycled or had a "mini" cycle. Again never added live sand with live bacteria accelerator before. I have been feeding my tank every other day with flake food and a piece of krill.

Any thoughts from the experts as to how to proceed?

Parameters:
Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
nitrate 0ppm
PH 7.8
temp 79
salinity 1.025

[Nebthet]

A lot of times, though not all the time, when you use established actual live rock you are only going to have a mini cycle.

You should be able to start adding some of your clean up crew if you haven't already and you could more than likely start adding a hardy fish. Though I may get flammed for telling you that. But I have seen people who used established live rock and have no cycle when the start as long as they get the rock in their tank within 8 hrs of it being taken out of the other tank. It then basically becomes the same as doing a tank transfer.

If you don't have a celing for the lights, some people have been able to go home depot or lowe's and get these long metal rods that are bent at the top. They have these secured into the back of the tank stand and are able to hang their lights from there over their tank.

[reeftanknewbie]

A lot of times, though not all the time, when you use established actual live rock you are only going to have a mini cycle.

You should be able to start adding some of your clean up crew if you haven't already and you could more than likely start adding a hardy fish. Though I may get flammed for telling you that. But I have seen people who used established live rock and have no cycle when the start as long as they get the rock in their tank within 8 hrs of it being taken out of the other tank. It then basically becomes the same as doing a tank transfer.

If you don't have a celing for the lights, some people have been able to go home depot or lowe's and get these long metal rods that are bent at the top. They have these secured into the back of the tank stand and are able to hang their lights from there over their tank.

Nebthet,

I was thinking the same thing with regards to the mini cycle but wasn't sure. Think I will start slow on the CUC. then maybe add in a week or two some chromis in pairs. great idea on the bent mental rods at HD or Lowe's. I will have to check them out. Sounds like metal conduit or something. I will check the electrical isle. If I may ask, what kind of set up do you have? would love to see pics.

[Nebthet]

Actually, I have a 56g tank myself. It is not a column, but rather different dimensions. a 36x18x22. I have 56lbs live rock in there plus another 30lbs or so of live sand. 4 clownfish, a bengaii cardinal, but gonna get another of those, a starry blenny and blue devil damsel. Lighting is a 6 bulb Tek t5 unit, I have an mp20, koralia3 and koralia 1 for water movement and use an ac70 to hold carbon and finaly an remora pro skimmer.

Here is the link to my thread here. Unlike most people I use regular tap water in my tank, which means more algae, but that has been improving ovr te last few months. But I am less worried about the algae and look more to the health of my fish and corals instead.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...1852918&page=2

Let me know what you think.

[reeftanknewbie]

Quick update for everyone. Seems like my PH is slowly moving towards 8.2. This morning my PH read 8.0. Since I don't have any algae bloom just yet should I start with a very small CUC or maybe two chromis? Again I believe since my rock was from an established tank of two years and my sand was live when I bought it that I really didn't have a full cycle. Correct me if I am wrong folks.

as far as the lighting poll. Looks like most are suggesting MH with T5 which I am sure is the best but may be at this time a bit out of what I can afford. Keep voting folks as I appreciate the feedback and support



Nebthet,

wow tank looks great...just amazed how you can use tap water with only minimal algae bloom. I see the flower pot, did your clowns rear those babies? I would think your tank had to be very established to do such. How do you find a matting pair?

I have used in the past peppermint shrimp to kill Aiptasia in the past. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPd5fHcFpeM

I know I have been thinking about T5 lighting but was a bit interested in this as well due to the price and watts per gallon. (Current Sundial 150w hqi, plus 2x32w PC actinic) found one used for 100.00/needs new bulbs.

Here is the site it's from:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1854485

The Tech T5 6 bulb is still something I kicking around but it's a bit out of what I can afford right now with a baby on the way.

your thoughts?

[Nebthet]

Well I had a medium algae bloom before I started magnesium dosing.. but that has really reduced and it is not as much of an issue right now. The next step is getting some peppermint shrimp in. I got some before when I had my cleaner shrimp, but he was really territorial and attacked and ate them within and hour of them being added to the tank, which sucked.

I am going to get some berghia nudis though. I have enough aiptasia in there for them to last a good long time.

Worry less about watts per gallon when it comes to salt water lighting and more about par ratings. WPG is a rule used with fresh water tanks with different plants that want to grow. The Tek T5 would be sufficient, or your current MH with a couple retrofit T5s on it.

I would definately suggest it is time to add the cuc, then a couple of chromis. A good place to get your CUC from what I have seen from other people is Reef Cleaners. John there is awsome and usually gives you a lot more than you purchase. I just wish we had a company like his up in Canada here.

I am glad you like my tank. I have done it all on a budget. The pot I added in there a few months ago. I am going to actually change it out for a larger one or move it to another area in the tank as I want to add another elegance coral in there eventually.

The baby clowns are actually not their babies, but a pair that I had brought into Canada from Florida. The breeder was ChristosClowns. I got them about the length of a thumbnail last May 20th, so they are just over a year old now, but have remained relatively small. The larger one is just beginning to develop his Onyx coloring and is getting the thicker black bars around his white mid strip. Had I put them in a tank of their own, the coloring would more than likely have developed quicker, but it is interesting watching the slower development happening.

The two larger clowns were purchased at different times. The largest, Big Momma I got back in Febuary or so that year, and then the Picasso I got in July. They took a good six months before they paired up. They are just beginning to go through the motions and practices for breeding right now, so this summer I might be lucky with them laying a clutch of eggs. I don't have ther room or extra set up right now to raise the young, but another hobbiest and breeder just lives around the corner from me, RKELMAN and I told him if they lay I will let him know so he can come and get the eggs and raise them if he wants.

[polyppetey]

I have the same tank as you and love it, I wish you all the best with your build.
One of my issues starting up has been the lighting. I got a catalina aquarium custom fixture which I LOVE. It consists of twin 150 watt HQI's (this way I do not have to deal with the center brace issue) as well as 4 x 24 watt actinics which I can run independently as well as 2 actinics at a time, I can simulate sunrise-sunset etc. The hood also has 8 dimmable moonlights, looks good at night time. This may be something to consider,pm me if you want details, I would be glad to help.

[reeftanknewbie]

Nebthet,

thanks once again for the great feedback. I had been thinking about your suggestion about the lighting. My only worry about MH is heating the tank too much. I have checked out reef cleaners for my CUC and will be ordering soon once I decide on what I need. No algae growth yet in the tank however i haven't been running any lights during the cycle. Your baby clowns are great, is it hard to find a mating pair? I was interested in the misbar clowns.

polyppetey,
thanks for the great suggestion on lighting and would love to know and see more. I was thinking about the center brace and was worried that the MH would melt it. I was thinking about somehow removing it and bracing both sides with clear acrylic and silicone. Other then eurobracing, have you heard of any mods like this? Was trying to get away with only one MH light vs. needing two due to cost of electricity and maintenance such as new bulbs etc....


And for those that are tagging along, I haven't done much since the start of the cycle. Still waiting to find what type of lighting I really need along with a good deal on a used setup. this is the light I am thinking of using due to cost factors. would love to hear comments. Current Sundial 150w hqi, plus 2x32w PC actinic.

http://nersp.osg.ufl.edu/~stiesi/hos...20-09)_002.jpg

[Nebthet]

Instead of looking specifically for a mated pair of clowns, it is better just to buy two clowns that you like. One larger than the other. They will change sex and pair up on their own in time.

For your MH's you can always use a fan near them to keep the tank cool underneath them. Most people usually hang them a foot over their tank so the fan would help to take care of some of the residual heat, though not all.

[reeftanknewbie]

Nebthet,

makes sense...have you had the opportunity to look at the light I was interested in below?

started seeing some life in the tank...got a mild diatom bloom and some small things on my refugium glass....I will tank pics when and if I can get a pic...Kind of looks like a baby limpet or something like it.

[Nebthet]

Do you mean the power companct lighting? 130w? It would suffice only in as something that is regarding for a low light tank. Not a lot of par. I use a 130w PC light when I had my 24g Aquapod.

Or did you mean the Sundial MH with the pc's? Because that would work.

Glad to see that the cycle is happening. The baby limpet could be small chitons too if you are seeing them on the glass in the subtrate.

[Anemonebuff]

Just make sure you use a UV shield on those DE MH. The UV light will burn your critters and you will fry your eye balls.

[STEELERFAN747]

Hey Newbie, while a mh with t5 system would work great, I don't think it would be the most economical for you as not only will you have to possibly add a chiller but mh bulbs should be replaced every 6-8 months.

I would look for a 6 bulb t5 fixture. They are low heat and I have heard great growth results, as for shimmer you could always add leds like I did on my current build.

Good luck and I will check back to see your decision and progress.

[Anemonebuff]

Originally Posted by STEELERFAN747

Hey Newbie, while a mh with t5 system would work great, I don't think it would be the most economical for you as not only will you have to possibly add a chiller but mh bulbs should be replaced every 6-8 months.

I would look for a 6 bulb t5 fixture. They are low heat and I have heard great growth results, as for shimmer you could always add leds like I did on my current build.

Good luck and I will check back to see your decision and progress.

I too would use LEDs on that system.

If you do use the MH, I would just use fans to cause evaporative cooling. It has worked for me. Plus, DE MH's will last 1 year to 18 months(I would switch at a year(9 months max for Radiums)) and SE MH's are 9-12 months.

[reeftanknewbie]

STEELERFAN747 & Anemonebuff,

Thanks for the great suggestions. The lighting I have now (130 watt PC) I don't plan on using at all. I was thinking of buying this light (Current Sundial 150w hqi, plus 2x32w PC actinic) because of the price but had concerns about hanging it over the center brace. I was never a fan of MH because of the wattage use and heat issues I have seen friends experience. I am starting to lean towards the T5 (6bulb) but man are they expensive. My poll I see has most folks who voted leaning towards T5 with MH....

Glad to see that the cycle is happening. The baby limpet could be small chitons too if you are seeing them on the glass in the subtrate.

Nebthet,

interested in hearing more about your thoughts on the Current Sundial 150w hqi, plus 2x32w PC actinic. what do I do about the center brace? Not familar with chitons....any suggested reading?