Tank looking crummy please help! - Page 2

Gamepro_inc · 11/10/2010, 08:53 AM

have you thought about testing copper. It seems you are trying everything else so maybe its some sort of odd contamination. Also what is your lighting schedule and how is your temp at midday and mid night, i.e how much of a temp swing does the tank get. Are you heavily stocked with corals or just a few? Also have you tested your Iodine. Sorry for the onslaught of questions I just figure it could be something you dont test. Got any pics of the tank and or unhappy corals. Good luck

reefgeezer · 11/10/2010, 09:19 AM

If I understand the science, there is a ratio of nitrate to phosphate present in organic compounds. Some theorize that if there is not enough phosphate present in the water column that nitrate binding (or vice versa) to organic compounds is limited. The organic carbon is actually what is consumed by the bacteria and the nutrients go along for the ride. I'm not smart enough to know if this is valid theory or not. However, I would not think the GFO is your problem. The algae on the other hand may be an issue as it binds both nitrate and phosphate before it can bind with organic compounds. The bacteria still grow, and consume the organic compounds from the water column and the pellets, there is just no N&P present.

ccLansman · 11/10/2010, 10:14 AM

I have lights on from 930am to 9pm, i have 48leds so i have 24 blues come on for two hours then the whites for 8 then the blues again for the remaining two at night.

Temp is 78.8 at night and goes up to 79.4 most of the day.

I dont have an iodine test, i was adding iodine from brightwell per the bottles instructions every few days. I have since stopped this.

The tank is not heavily stocked with corals, ill try and get some pics update.

Meggie2409 · 11/10/2010, 10:19 AM

Hmmm.... Well here are my thoughts and this is just because I also have a 55gal mixed reef and its doing great... What kind of water are you using for the water changes? has anything changed with the quality of the water you are using... I mean your tank is still kinda new so you are going to experience mini spikes when you do anything to the water... And from my experience with some of the same corals they are going to react to change. I also 2nd and 3rd you to stop dosing, I do not dose at all and my corals have awesome growth. I used to dose however and noticed I would have pH and phos. issues all the time so I stopped and just did more frequent 10% water changes and everything seems waaay happier. Oh and I wld maybe decrease the amt of light I run my actinic for abt 10 hrs and my halides for 6 hrs JMO

ccLansman · 11/10/2010, 10:35 AM

Thanks for the heads up, i use RODI water i make myself, i just checked and the TDS are 0. I think it may have been an issue of too much dosing with too many diifernent things, i was trying the Zeolites about a month ago and started dosing to keep up with the supposed drop in minerals and what not from using them. I have been dosing Potassium even after stopping zeolite which may also be a cause. So i stopped all dosing 3 days ago and plan on sticking with just water changes for a while.

Meggie2409 · 11/10/2010, 10:54 AM

I think that sounds like an awesome plan... I might do more frequent for a min just cuz of all the dosing... Maybe do a 20-30% chng and see if that helps... I wld also maybe just run actinic until the corals are reacting...

ccLansman · 11/10/2010, 02:43 PM

I should have followed the age old model.. KISS.. Keep is simple stupid....doh!

joemelo · 11/12/2010, 07:10 PM

good nutrients that are harvested in your bacteria water column, aswell as trace elements.
you probably hear people mention over skimming, this is the same idea.
the water essentially could be too clean for some corals, compared to the way they might like it.

most biopellet reactors have stirrers to prevent too much of a bacteria buildup. normally these are supposed to be shaken up daily to put some nutrients back into the water. I think it's called mulming. do you do that?

I think part of the problem with your phosphates could be dosing your trace elements and other stuff. especially if you dose anything to feed corals, that will definitely fuel the fire to nuisance algae. best not to dose until every thing is under control.

how new are those lights, do you think by any chance you have too much light?

these are just suggestions
hopefully things work out

ccLansman · 11/15/2010, 10:47 AM

I was thinking light to but i have a par meter and have matched the par numbers with my old 250W halied, should leds be run at less par since they are on a more focused spectrum? Or is par just par? I do not stir my reactor as it tumbles a lot and i dont see any build up. I guess i could have too clean water but then why all the nuisance algae? Im running a NAC7 skimmer. Never heard of over-skimming can anyone else chime in on that?

So little update aside from that, really bumming a lot of my sps have RTNed and are now white

ccLansman · 11/15/2010, 10:49 PM

So everything is continuing to die and algae is running rampant. I hardly feed, im doing 15gal water changes bi-weekly.. Feels like there is an issue that is not being fixed. I recently installed a grounding probe due to a stray voltage of about 37 volts. I removed a faulty heater and it went to about 20V from there was not able to get it any lower without the grounding probe. Any thoughts? I Tried unplugging every item one by one and none of them fixed it. I checked for a current any could not find any.

strike2867 · 11/16/2010, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccLansman

So everything is continuing to die and algae is running rampant. I hardly feed, im doing 15gal water changes bi-weekly.. Feels like there is an issue that is not being fixed. I recently installed a grounding probe due to a stray voltage of about 37 volts. I removed a faulty heater and it went to about 20V from there was not able to get it any lower without the grounding probe. Any thoughts? I Tried unplugging every item one by one and none of them fixed it. I checked for a current any could not find any.

Have you taken the water into an LFS?

ccLansman · 11/16/2010, 11:12 AM

what for? I have better test kits than they do, better refractometer ect...

Pallobi · 11/16/2010, 11:21 AM

RC is far more helpful than any LFS imo... hope things start looking up for u!

ccLansman · 11/18/2010, 08:47 AM

So little update, things are still going down hill. Should i assume i have some other issue? If i have overdosed something like iodine, or vitamin C, or potassium is there any way to get things back to normal? I have done a 15gal water change every week for the last three weeks and have seen little to no improvement. I doubled checked stray voltages and that seems fine, i have a ground probe installed, no current detected. I looked around for anything metal in the tank nothing there. I put a polyfilter pad and it just changed to a light brown shade so im assuming no heavy metals present. Any ideas im really starting to bum out thinking i need to start everything over which would be a total disaster.

andyk187 · 11/18/2010, 09:27 AM

Dont get too bummed out man.... i ran through a similar issue (or so in my mind) about 4-5 months back... still dealing with some of the aftermath from it... i could be way off here, but after skimming through and seeing how in depth people are looking and we're not finding answers i'm just gonna through this out there.... If you have corals in the tank that are RTN'ing and zoas that aren't opening etc. these are putting off a lot of nasty stuff that may/may not show up on a test. I had perfect water params, fed less and less each day and change 25-30% water every week on my tank.. it's only 39g.... no matter what i did the corals just kept looking worse.... i went in and started cutting off dead limbs of corals and any piece of tissue that looked like it was dying... i had a clam that i sacrificed because it was dying as well... i had to get rid of 2 acros that were about the size of half a baseball together.... some of my corals had RTN, some had STN, but i got rid of as much dead/dying stuff as i could... i noticed initially that the tank water started smelling WAY better in the fuge and within a month the other corals started extending there polyps back out to original size and was even able to save one of the corals that was RTN'ing. superglue works miracles on the tissue necrosis as well.... idk if this will help but i feel for you after going through similar situation and just want to help!

A.G · 11/18/2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joemelo

how long has this been going on
2 weeks?
less.
just about enough time for the bio pellets to start working since you've been using them for a month.
most biopellets say that you should stop using your gfo for a bit because that absorbs the phosphates. if you're still running gfo the biopellets could have nothing to consume and start consuming good nutrients starving your corals?

just an idea

also your low ph might be a result from the biopellets reducing oxygen.

+1 I had the same thing happned when I had the pelletes . Give it a try and remove them for now , do a water change and let the tank for a couple of weeks.

angel125 · 11/18/2010, 05:12 PM

How old are the bulbs.. Algea problem and bleaching of corals ...sounds like old bulbs! Good luck!

ccLansman · 11/18/2010, 11:50 PM

No old bulbs im running led's

11/10/2010, 08:53 AM	#26
Gamepro_inc Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 425	have you thought about testing copper. It seems you are trying everything else so maybe its some sort of odd contamination. Also what is your lighting schedule and how is your temp at midday and mid night, i.e how much of a temp swing does the tank get. Are you heavily stocked with corals or just a few? Also have you tested your Iodine. Sorry for the onslaught of questions I just figure it could be something you dont test. Got any pics of the tank and or unhappy corals. Good luck __________________ -Paul Current Tank Info: 65g rimless, and 34g starfire rimless Solana

11/10/2010, 10:14 AM	#28
ccLansman Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vista, Ca Posts: 146	I have lights on from 930am to 9pm, i have 48leds so i have 24 blues come on for two hours then the whites for 8 then the blues again for the remaining two at night. Temp is 78.8 at night and goes up to 79.4 most of the day. I dont have an iodine test, i was adding iodine from brightwell per the bottles instructions every few days. I have since stopped this. The tank is not heavily stocked with corals, ill try and get some pics update. __________________ Tank: 55gal, 20gal sump, Bubble Magus NAC7, 2 x mp40's, 6x24W T5

11/10/2010, 10:35 AM	#30
ccLansman Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vista, Ca Posts: 146	Thanks for the heads up, i use RODI water i make myself, i just checked and the TDS are 0. I think it may have been an issue of too much dosing with too many diifernent things, i was trying the Zeolites about a month ago and started dosing to keep up with the supposed drop in minerals and what not from using them. I have been dosing Potassium even after stopping zeolite which may also be a cause. So i stopped all dosing 3 days ago and plan on sticking with just water changes for a while. __________________ Tank: 55gal, 20gal sump, Bubble Magus NAC7, 2 x mp40's, 6x24W T5

11/10/2010, 02:43 PM	#32
ccLansman Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vista, Ca Posts: 146	I should have followed the age old model.. KISS.. Keep is simple stupid....doh! __________________ Tank: 55gal, 20gal sump, Bubble Magus NAC7, 2 x mp40's, 6x24W T5

11/12/2010, 07:10 PM	#33
joemelo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada Posts: 229	good nutrients that are harvested in your bacteria water column, aswell as trace elements. you probably hear people mention over skimming, this is the same idea. the water essentially could be too clean for some corals, compared to the way they might like it. most biopellet reactors have stirrers to prevent too much of a bacteria buildup. normally these are supposed to be shaken up daily to put some nutrients back into the water. I think it's called mulming. do you do that? I think part of the problem with your phosphates could be dosing your trace elements and other stuff. especially if you dose anything to feed corals, that will definitely fuel the fire to nuisance algae. best not to dose until every thing is under control. how new are those lights, do you think by any chance you have too much light? these are just suggestions hopefully things work out __________________ I have no vampire experience, but I have hunted werewolves. I shot one once, but by the time I got there, it had turned back into my neighbour's dog. Current Tank Info: 250 gallon display (60x36x27) 70g sump, AI SOL BLUE, N/P biopellets, GAC, Skimz sm201 skimmer

11/10/2010, 09:19 AM	#27
reefgeezer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 2,621	If I understand the science, there is a ratio of nitrate to phosphate present in organic compounds. Some theorize that if there is not enough phosphate present in the water column that nitrate binding (or vice versa) to organic compounds is limited. The organic carbon is actually what is consumed by the bacteria and the nutrients go along for the ride. I'm not smart enough to know if this is valid theory or not. However, I would not think the GFO is your problem. The algae on the other hand may be an issue as it binds both nitrate and phosphate before it can bind with organic compounds. The bacteria still grow, and consume the organic compounds from the water column and the pellets, there is just no N&P present.

11/10/2010, 10:19 AM	#29
Meggie2409 Moved On Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 195	Hmmm.... Well here are my thoughts and this is just because I also have a 55gal mixed reef and its doing great... What kind of water are you using for the water changes? has anything changed with the quality of the water you are using... I mean your tank is still kinda new so you are going to experience mini spikes when you do anything to the water... And from my experience with some of the same corals they are going to react to change. I also 2nd and 3rd you to stop dosing, I do not dose at all and my corals have awesome growth. I used to dose however and noticed I would have pH and phos. issues all the time so I stopped and just did more frequent 10% water changes and everything seems waaay happier. Oh and I wld maybe decrease the amt of light I run my actinic for abt 10 hrs and my halides for 6 hrs JMO

11/10/2010, 10:54 AM	#31
Meggie2409 Moved On Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 195	I think that sounds like an awesome plan... I might do more frequent for a min just cuz of all the dosing... Maybe do a 20-30% chng and see if that helps... I wld also maybe just run actinic until the corals are reacting...

11/15/2010, 10:47 AM	#34
ccLansman Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vista, Ca Posts: 146	I was thinking light to but i have a par meter and have matched the par numbers with my old 250W halied, should leds be run at less par since they are on a more focused spectrum? Or is par just par? I do not stir my reactor as it tumbles a lot and i dont see any build up. I guess i could have too clean water but then why all the nuisance algae? Im running a NAC7 skimmer. Never heard of over-skimming can anyone else chime in on that? So little update aside from that, really bumming a lot of my sps have RTNed and are now white __________________ Tank: 55gal, 20gal sump, Bubble Magus NAC7, 2 x mp40's, 6x24W T5

11/15/2010, 10:49 PM	#35
ccLansman Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vista, Ca Posts: 146	So everything is continuing to die and algae is running rampant. I hardly feed, im doing 15gal water changes bi-weekly.. Feels like there is an issue that is not being fixed. I recently installed a grounding probe due to a stray voltage of about 37 volts. I removed a faulty heater and it went to about 20V from there was not able to get it any lower without the grounding probe. Any thoughts? I Tried unplugging every item one by one and none of them fixed it. I checked for a current any could not find any. __________________ Tank: 55gal, 20gal sump, Bubble Magus NAC7, 2 x mp40's, 6x24W T5

11/16/2010, 11:12 AM	#37
ccLansman Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vista, Ca Posts: 146	what for? I have better test kits than they do, better refractometer ect... __________________ Tank: 55gal, 20gal sump, Bubble Magus NAC7, 2 x mp40's, 6x24W T5

11/16/2010, 11:21 AM	#38
Pallobi CTARS, BRS & OSRAS Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 7,001	RC is far more helpful than any LFS imo... hope things start looking up for u! __________________ Zoas & Palys

11/18/2010, 08:47 AM	#39
ccLansman Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vista, Ca Posts: 146	So little update, things are still going down hill. Should i assume i have some other issue? If i have overdosed something like iodine, or vitamin C, or potassium is there any way to get things back to normal? I have done a 15gal water change every week for the last three weeks and have seen little to no improvement. I doubled checked stray voltages and that seems fine, i have a ground probe installed, no current detected. I looked around for anything metal in the tank nothing there. I put a polyfilter pad and it just changed to a light brown shade so im assuming no heavy metals present. Any ideas im really starting to bum out thinking i need to start everything over which would be a total disaster. __________________ Tank: 55gal, 20gal sump, Bubble Magus NAC7, 2 x mp40's, 6x24W T5

11/18/2010, 09:27 AM	#40
andyk187 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 2	Dont get too bummed out man.... i ran through a similar issue (or so in my mind) about 4-5 months back... still dealing with some of the aftermath from it... i could be way off here, but after skimming through and seeing how in depth people are looking and we're not finding answers i'm just gonna through this out there.... If you have corals in the tank that are RTN'ing and zoas that aren't opening etc. these are putting off a lot of nasty stuff that may/may not show up on a test. I had perfect water params, fed less and less each day and change 25-30% water every week on my tank.. it's only 39g.... no matter what i did the corals just kept looking worse.... i went in and started cutting off dead limbs of corals and any piece of tissue that looked like it was dying... i had a clam that i sacrificed because it was dying as well... i had to get rid of 2 acros that were about the size of half a baseball together.... some of my corals had RTN, some had STN, but i got rid of as much dead/dying stuff as i could... i noticed initially that the tank water started smelling WAY better in the fuge and within a month the other corals started extending there polyps back out to original size and was even able to save one of the corals that was RTN'ing. superglue works miracles on the tissue necrosis as well.... idk if this will help but i feel for you after going through similar situation and just want to help!

11/18/2010, 05:12 PM	#42
angel125 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: bronx,NY Posts: 118	How old are the bulbs.. Algea problem and bleaching of corals ...sounds like old bulbs! Good luck!

11/18/2010, 11:50 PM	#43
ccLansman Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vista, Ca Posts: 146	No old bulbs im running led's __________________ Tank: 55gal, 20gal sump, Bubble Magus NAC7, 2 x mp40's, 6x24W T5

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Still in the market for a large tank	215reefone	Delaware Valley Reef Club (DVRC)	1	02/01/2010 06:39 AM
looking for a frag tank	justjosh	Reef Discussion	2	01/13/2010 11:07 PM
A new 60 gallon tank	opacheso	New to the Hobby	5	01/07/2010 04:43 PM
Looking to Purchase Tank/Set Up	215reefone	Delaware Valley Reef Club (DVRC)	2	12/27/2009 11:33 AM