A story of flame and beauty...

[Whisperer]

Hmmmm....I think they have learned from experience

[Angel*Fish]

If the CB goes up into a corner at the top of the tank and cowers there, you may have a shot of catching it with a net. Otherwise, I'd say that method won't work.

You can do several things -- one easy thing to do is to use eggcrate to corner off part of the tank. It has to go into the sand a bit. When the CB swims in there, close it up. You can try feeding, to attract either fish, but I'm thinking the CB may go there for a refuge. This method kind of depends on how much time you have (how bad the fighting is).

Rearranging the rocks may help. The separate bommies, I mentioned before (and also the adding of rocks). The flame looks like he has decided that the whole bommie is his. I'm not sure there are enough rocks to do it. Ideally the bommies are each concave, say in the front -- the idea is block them from having to see each other as much.
Sorry for the bad drawing


If there's real damage going on you probably just need to tear down the tank while you have time and get it over with. If not, it's possible they may work it out, but that's not what it's sounding like.

Lights out can help. Heavy feeding putting food at both ends of the tank at once.

Like I said on the other thread, I always worry about CB's and flames together because of those stripes and not knowing what colors they see. The two I had together for a month or so were sort of fine, but were added at the same time. But I was always afraid aggression was going to break out, unlike the other combos.

Good luck - sorry it's not working out.

[srusso]

Thank you angel*fish, for the drawings and the help. I am not sure what to do eggcrate may not work... Anything object that I have put in the tank they both see as a threat... So they stay far away from it. I even tried a piece of glass hoping they wouldnt really see it, in the same cornering method. The aggression is not physically damaging one another. Both try to stand their ground but the flame is the aggressor in 90% for the spats. I am going to try and add some rock but I have little hope of this working. You mentioned cowering... At no point would I say the CB cowers. In fact the CB being the faster of the two, usually flips around and ends up behind the flame to become the aggressor.
I'd say the aggression is all teratorial dominance. I will try to get another video for all.

I know there are a bunch of people saying we told you so...

[JPhan1]

So how are the fish doing? I have a coral beauty and would love to add a flame.

[Whisperer]

I have great success with clear acrylic instead of the eggcrate, same trick. You must get them accustomed to it being there. Place some of their favorite food inside and wait. When your target fish enters, corner him and scoop him out with the net.

[srusso]

Originally Posted by JPhan1

So how are the fish doing? I have a coral beauty and would love to add a flame.

it helps if you actually read the thread...

[Angel*Fish]

Originally Posted by srusso

Thank you angel*fish, for the drawings and the help. I am not sure what to do eggcrate may not work... Anything object that I have put in the tank they both see as a threat... So they stay far away from it. I even tried a piece of glass hoping they wouldnt really see it, in the same cornering method. The aggression is not physically damaging one another. Both try to stand their ground but the flame is the aggressor in 90% for the spats. I am going to try and add some rock but I have little hope of this working. You mentioned cowering... At no point would I say the CB cowers. In fact the CB being the faster of the two, usually flips around and ends up behind the flame to become the aggressor.
I'd say the aggression is all teratorial dominance. I will try to get another video for all.

I know there are a bunch of people saying we told you so...

There was no way for you to predict what would happen for sure. You could have proceeded with more caution as in using a safebox like Todd suggested or listening to me about the rock arrangement. But nobody ever believes me about the rocks And if someone in this hobby hasn't rushed things things sometimes, let them throw the first stone. And btw, I don't mean to imply that rearranging the rocks at this point will fix everything, but I would say that if these fish do work it out, you owe it to them to give them a more comfortable rock arrangement and more rock.

A diatom bloom right now would be a good thing

A video would be great. What one person describes as fighting can sometimes just be them working out dominance. If you've ever mated adult maroon clowns, you'll know what I mean. It's hard to tell from what you describe. But I don't want to give you false encouragement - so please take that with a grain of salt.

I would really be limiting the lights on period right now.

Originally Posted by Whisperer

I have great success with clear acrylic instead of the eggcrate, same trick. You must get them accustomed to it being there. Place some of their favorite food inside and wait. When your target fish enters, corner him and scoop him out with the net.

Yes, the getting them accustomed to it is the key and that can possibly take days.

[srusso]

Now they wanna behave soon as the camera turns on...



Aggression seems highest when the metal halide on and seems to subside as the lights start go out...

[Mike Ordner]

I was able to get a flame angel out by putting a veggie clip in the very front corner way up high. Then I just stood there for a while and netted him when he went for a big bite. Surpised us both that it worked though!

[Angel*Fish]

Haha - looks like the flame is more concerned with that fish on the glass. They are trying to make it look like you're making all this fighting stuff up

[srusso]

Originally Posted by Angel*Fish

A video would be great. What one person describes as fighting can sometimes just be them working out dominance. If you've ever mated adult maroon clowns, you'll know what I mean. It's hard to tell from what you describe. But I don't want to give you false encouragement - so please take that with a grain of salt.

I would really be limiting the lights on period right now.

Yes, the getting them accustomed to it is the key and that can possibly take days.

Thank you for the help angel, a video I took yesterday best explains the aggression I am talking about...

[dzfish17]

I had this combo in a 210g with about 300lbs. of rock and the flame still managed to find and harass the CB. I did read the entire thread and when I first started reading I was checking to see how big your tank is. When I saw the 70g I was thinking oh no. And then a few post later I saw you were having problems. Im not trying to be a jerk by telling you this because you already know that its not a good idea. Sometimes we (present company included) have to find things out the hard way. Although I read the thread I hadnt watched the videos. You may be ok as long as the FA keeps doing what he's doing. He's just letting the CB know that he is in charge and the CB needs to stay out of his way.

Best of luck, Dave

[srusso]

Well looks like things didn't get any better last night. Fins are frayed again on both of them... However the CB has really kicked the aggression up! Claiming all the rock to himself and not letting the flame near his territory. A lot of tail flapping also... I haven't seen aggression this early ever. Wonder if the LFS is open today........ My wife may kill me if I try to leave to a pet store on Christmas eve...

[Angel*Fish]

Originally Posted by srusso

Well looks like things didn't get any better last night. Fins are frayed again on both of them... However the CB has really kicked the aggression up! Claiming all the rock to himself and not letting the flame near his territory. A lot of tail flapping also... I haven't seen aggression this early ever. Wonder if the LFS is open today........ My wife may kill me if I try to leave to a pet store on Christmas eve...

I was just going to post that from the video, it looks like very little aggression. In the video it looks like the flame is trying to work things out - clearly showing submissive displays and if he were bigger than the CB, the CB would have to listen. This certainly all makes more sense than the flame being the dominant fish like it seemed before. I just thought you had some crazy little bulldog flame angel.

But with new fin fraying... that's another story. I'm so sorry to hear that. If I lived nearby, I'd offer to come help.

[carlosR]

Sorry to hhear about the way it turned out, I thought about mixing the two. Hope it works out for you.

[chimmike]

Are you supplementing with pods? Just curious because you have a sixline wrasse as well as a mandarin.

[joeychitwood]

Try placing some food in the net and set it in the tank for awhile. The fish may become less skittish and approach it to eat. It may take some time, but it's certainly worth a try before taking down the tank.

[srusso]

Originally Posted by Angel*Fish

I was just going to post that from the video, it looks like very little aggression. In the video it looks like the flame is trying to work things out - clearly showing submissive displays and if he were bigger than the CB, the CB would have to listen. This certainly all makes more sense than the flame being the dominant fish like it seemed before. I just thought you had some crazy little bulldog flame angel.

But with new fin fraying... that's another story. I'm so sorry to hear that. If I lived nearby, I'd offer to come help.

Well, as soon as the actinic lighting came on rolls reversed again. The flame is the smaller of the two fish but becomes a little devil once the lights come on... I wish you could help... still have my fingers crossed and my prays flowing for this couple to settle down... I am giving myself till sunday. I am having a party today and tomorrow! I love to show off my tank to people (I am sure I am not the only one!) and now for christmas they look like street rats...!! Jerks!! He is a crazy bull dog angel, here all a long I though I should get one that was closest in size to my CB now I wish I got one that was a bit smaller...

[srusso]

Originally Posted by chimmike

Are you supplementing with pods? Just curious because you have a sixline wrasse as well as a mandarin.

not really worried about it... one b/c my mandarin eats frozen food and I only use an ATS.

[srusso]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

Try placing some food in the net and set it in the tank for awhile. The fish may become less skittish and approach it to eat. It may take some time, but it's certainly worth a try before taking down the tank.

With all the flow I have it ends up just floating out... I have tried this with a clear water pitcher once. I am bound to give it another try though. The net however may as well be a shark... I even take the think out of the cabinet and every fish disappears like a freaking magic trick!

[srusso]

Aggression is back to normal... any help is great. thank you all
Please excuse my heavy breathing in the video... just mute it ok? LOL

[RenoR1]

I can't help but to think a rock-change would help. I had a couple really aggressive fish a while ago and I got ticked and re-arranged the rock work. They were confused as hell and ended up settling in different parts of the tank. They rarely even saw each other from that point on.

[Angel*Fish]

Thanks for posting another video - that one was hard to watch. I would not let them go on that like all day - you could easily wind up with a fish that's not healthy enough to go back to the LFS plus another new home. I would put some kind of trap structure in there immediately (eggcrate, plexi, 2 liter bottle trap - something). Yesterday would have been better. And if things don't settle down in the next hour or so, I'd just tear down the tank and get one of them out of there. If you don't have two heaters, I'd go get one at Walmart before the close.

Parties or not.

[NYCBOB]

sorry to hear it didnt work out. with so little rockwork, its very hard for the cb to even hide. just out of curiosity, how do u keep the mandarin fed? do u hv a fuge?

[Crustman]

It looks like the new Flame will win the war. Although the Angels are different colors, they are in the same genus and establish grazing territory. Those of us with smaller tanks can't keep more than one unless they are a pair. Good luck.