3yr old Tank Crashing

[reefmanmatt]

first question i have is why is your salt level sooooo low ? thats almost brackish water ....

[frnkynlop]

what you mean salinity is at .27

[kurt_n]

Originally Posted by frnkynlop

I used do water changes about 3 to 4 weeks apart. with doing a heavier cleaning every three months and doing a complete overhual every six months.

A couple questions...

1. What exactly is a "complete overhaul" and did you do one just before you noticed things going bad?

2. How long have you had the corals that you're losing? Are they the most recent acquisitions? How long have you had the leather in there?

[frnkynlop]

Originally Posted by kurt_n

A couple questions...

1. What exactly is a "complete overhaul" and did you do one just before you noticed things going bad?

2. How long have you had the corals that you're losing? Are they the most recent acquisitions? How long have you had the leather in there?

Hey Kurt,

The complete overhual consist of cleaning out the skimmers, pumps, lights, overflow, tubing and when I had the bio balls slushing them around in old tank water to get the grim out. And yes I did one when I noticed my nitrates up and this time instead of slushing the bio balls around I took them out.
The coral that I'm loosing have been in my system for 2yr if not more.
The leathers have been in there for about 3yrs. they where one of my first corals in there.

[bertoni]

I think that you might be using a freshwater-only phosphate remover. If you could post the product name, we might be able to check it. I'd limit the water changes to 10% per week, or maybe 5% a day if your corals are having a lot of trouble. Larger water changes can be an issue on their own. If the nitrate level remains high, I'd get the test kit verified. Measuring some 0 TDS RO/DI water is a good sanity test. I'd also stop feeding for at least a few days.

[reefmanmatt]

Originally Posted by frnkynlop

what you mean salinity is at .27

do you mean 1.027 sg , or 27 ppt ? theres a massive difference and either way its out of the realm of normal ...

[mahogue]

I experienced something similar with frogspawn and hammer when my Ca went a bit low in combination with old lights. Your 510 ppm Ca reading should not be causing that but I would take a sample of your water into the LFS for testing and double check all of your test kit results.

[jimmy frag]

how is your temperature, also seeing as you switched salt, does it mix the same. do you mix it the night before.

[tmz]

Phosphate is very high at 1ppm. It will inhibit calcification in corals at much over 0.10ppm. It can be reduced.via granular ferric oxide or another form of remover.
Frequent small water changes(5 to 10%) offer less chance for shocks or inadvertent swings in parameters.Personally, I do 1% daily with mixed water that is aged and aerated at least overnight.
Old sand bed if it's no longer live with sand critters could be leaching back some accumulated nutrients and/or toxins.
Buildup of a toxic metal is a possibility, running poly filter or cuprisorb may help.
If you are not doing so, I'd run granulated activated carbon too.

[websiteworld]

Originally Posted by reefmanmatt

do you mean 1.027 sg , or 27 ppt ? theres a massive difference and either way its out of the realm of normal ...

Nit picking obviously he meant 1.027. FYI adding fritz zyme #9 nitryfying bacteria couldn't hurt The stuff really works.

Sent from my EVO 3d using tapatalk

[tmz]

1.027 specific gravity is fine. The average for natural seawater is 1.0264. Red sea specimens live in even higher sg ranging upwards of 1.029.
The euphylia may be infected with a pathogen ,like brown jelly a protozoan /protist infestation that often starts with a wound . Removing dying specimens is prudent. Cutting off dying heads can sometimes save the rest. Lugol's dips may have some effect but are not usually effective , ime.

[kurt_n]

Originally Posted by frnkynlop

Hey Kurt,

The complete overhual consist of cleaning out the skimmers, pumps, lights, overflow, tubing and when I had the bio balls slushing them around in old tank water to get the grim out. And yes I did one when I noticed my nitrates up and this time instead of slushing the bio balls around I took them out.
The coral that I'm loosing have been in my system for 2yr if not more.
The leathers have been in there for about 3yrs. they where one of my first corals in there.

Hmm... that rules out some of the things I was thinking.

When you say the corals are dieing off, how are they dieing? I mean, are they just not expanding anymore, or are they receding, or is the tissue sloughing off? Someone mentioned brown jelly disease, which is a definite possibility with Euphyllia type corals, but that should be pretty obvious to determine.

Someone else mentioned accumulated heavy metals, and with the long term use of tap water, that's kind of what I'm leaning towards also. Could be heavy metals, or just something else that is not used by the system that has finally built up to not-so-nice levels. Might be worth getting a copper test kit and seeing what the results are. But running a Poly-Filter and some Cuprisorb for a few months will definitely not hurt and could resolve the problem. Poly-Filters are great in that they'll change color depending on what element is being adsorbed. Great things to have onhand.

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by websiteworld

Nit picking obviously he meant 1.027. FYI adding fritz zyme #9 nitryfying bacteria couldn't hurt The stuff really works.

Sent from my EVO 3d using tapatalk

It really isn't nit picking. When something is going this wrong, need to make sure that one has all the facts, and not guess at what the OP meant.

[reefmanmatt]

Originally Posted by tmz

1.027 specific gravity is fine. The average for natural seawater is 1.0264. Red sea specimens live in even higher sg ranging upwards of 1.029.
The euphylia may be infected with a pathogen ,like brown jelly a protozoan /protist infestation that often starts with a wound . Removing dying specimens is prudent. Cutting off dying heads can sometimes save the rest. Lugol's dips may have some effect but are not usually effective , ime.

i do realize and understand the levels of natural seawater . i also realize most hobbyists who keep them this high and dont take the time to type correct responses have a tenancy to over look other areas too , i was looking at .27 ....not clear at all ( +1 toddrtrex) no "nit picking" and should have worded my response differently . thanks guys - good luck , i give *edit* got off subject , my bad .

[jimmy frag]

++++100 on the build up of tap water over time. it will take its toll over time. he,s very fortunate to have gone three years with tap water

[frnkynlop]

Hey Guys,

again thanks for all the feed back and sorry for the delay responce. To answer some of the questions. Salinity is 1.027, the froggy's are just receeding and they slougthing off. Not browm jelly I've dealt with that once before and I don't see any brown jelly on it. The phosphate media pad that I'm using is the green Aquazone media Pad. Thinking of going with a gfo reactor. Done several water changes and no reduction with the phosphate. I usually let the salt mix for about 2 to 4 hours before putting into dt. The esv salt actually mixes very well and quickly. It usually mixes within minutes, but as a precuation I let it sit for longer. The Temp Averages around 82 deg. I don't think I have cooper in the system because I have snail, Hermit crabs and nems, and I think I would see some deaths with any little trace of cooper, but I'll take a samples of my water to my lfs, just to be sure.

Quick question, Should I keep up with the water changes, I was thinking of doing the water changes every week opposed to the every three days. Also thinking of getting brs GFO reactor.

[frnkynlop]

Another question should I go with the phosban or bio pellets?

[tmz]

Once a week at 10% is fine. Letting the water age a while is not only for the mixing but alows allows time for some of the amines and other stuff to settle out a bit.

The Brs reactor is fine ; I prefer the Two Little Fishes mostly because I can view the media. I have both.
Personally , I'd start with gfo; you will likely need it even if organic carbon(vodka, vinegar, pellets,etc ) dosing is used. Nitrates at 20ppm aren't much of an issue for the corals you are keeping in any case. PO4 is a major issue and it may take frequent changes with gfo to get them down ,particularly since the rock and substrate have been exposed to high levels and may leach some back for several months. Getting things settled down and reducing the PO4 before undertaking organic carbon dosing and some of the issues it can bring is the course I would follow.

[bertoni]

I agree that a GFO like PhosBan is probably an easier place to start than bio-pellets.

[frnkynlop]

ok great. any major difference between 2 little fishy and the brs brand. Because I actually could get brs brand for less than 40 bucks.

[kurt_n]

Pretty much agree with 100% of what tmz said. You'll probably never know with 100% certainty what is going on, but it seems safe to assume it's a tap water issue. Even with the tap water removed, you're going to be fighting the leaching aspect of things for a while.

I've used the pelletized GFO from BRS and will never use anything else. Can't really say any of the GFO works better than others, but the pelletized stuff seems quicker to rinse clean before putting it in. Easier to use, in my opinion.

I don't think the water changes every 3 days is necessarily a bad thing, but if I was in your shoes I'd probably be doing 20% every 5-7 days, along with carbon, GFO, and Poly-Filters. If the Poly-Filters don't change color after a couple weeks, I'd probably stop using those. But I sure wouldn't start any type of carbon dosing at this point. Too many changes all at once are normally not a good thing and make things even harder to troubleshoot as you move forward.

[bertoni]

I don't know of any publicly available data that shows how well the various products work. The BRS products seem to get very good reviews, and PhosBan worked well enough for me. My tanks never had any significantly measurable phosphate when I was running GFO, though. I ran it just as a safety net.

[frnkynlop]

Guys Thanks for the advice. I'm actually picking up a brs reactor tonight. I got a great deal on it.

Just wanted to double check, but with the brs reactor I could use the phosban or gfo for media, right?

And thanks everyone for the help

[bertoni]

The reactor will be fine with either media. The flow rate might need to change a bit, if one media breaks up more easily than the other.

[frnkynlop]

great thanks for the feedback.