Introducing male Maroon to female

[tebstan]

Day Two:

same results. The male almost had a good hiding spot, until the six line ratted him out.

I put him back in the box for another night, try again tomorrow.

[Gandolfe]

I guess i was lucky with my marroons. i had a 4 year old ,4" female and introduced a 1.5" male into my tank. I had her in a 90 gallon for the 4 years and then switched to a 125. She was in the 125 for about a month when i added a BTA,she hardly noticed it and i never saw her in it. I added the male about 2 weeks after the BTA. The first day he stayed at the top of the tank. The next morning i saw him cheking out the BTA and then a few hours later so was she. About 6 hours later they were both in the BTA together and have been together since. About 3 months now. I lost one clone and the original BTA but the one i have now has been in the tank for 3 weeks and stays where i first placed it and has grown wider by about an inch so far

[davocean]

Even if the male had a good hiding place that is not what you want anyway.
Sometimes they just won't accept the male or your first attempts to pair up.
I'd give maybe 3 tries w/ a couple days between attempts, and if not I would probably give a little time and try w/ another male.

[tebstan]

Many of the quick and easy success stories I hear involve an anemone. Could be a factor?

I don't have one, and won't be getting one. They pose too much of a risk for me, when there are alternatives the clowns can host in.


davocean, are you saying after all this time in QT the female could just decide she doesn't like him, and that's it? No getting to know each other over cocktails and a movie? He's a handsome little guy, she just needs to give him a chance.

[davocean]

An anemone usually makes the female even more territorial/aggressive IME, and can add to the difficulty, however I would not let that stop me.
IME once they refuse a male so aggressively that there is excessive fin tearing the chances of her accepting him are pretty darn slim, but I can't say impossible.
Mine killed her first two males even using the container intro, and that was w/ multiple tries and even having a net ready to rescue as fast as I could.

[tebstan]

I caught her! I caught the female!

Without her chasing the male around, the other fish aren't harassing him quite so much. The six line is still being a brat, but not as bad as when they had a mob mentality against him. I'm going to give him a few hours to scope the place out, then let the girl go.

[tebstan]

Wow. He gets a chance at freedom, and what does he do? He doesn't explore. He hangs out by her side, on the outside of the container. I don't know if that's sweet or stupid. Clearly he knows his place... know it's just up to her to accept him.

I'll let them sit with the roles reversed for a while longer. The female still seems pretty irked with me, she needs some time to calm down.

[Psirex]

even is fish world we know who rules the nest.....

[davocean]

Well, they are both just showing their true nature, him wanting to mate w/ her, her making sure he is an acceptable mate.
I've seen the role reversal intro work, hope you get lucky, post results.

[tebstan]

The female seemed to have calmed down, and the male stayed right by the box.



After a few hours, I opened the container. The female didn't seem to realize and stayed in the box.

A few moments later, the male swam into the box to be with her!

She nipped him, and he fluttered his bum like a crazy fish. They're both still in the box - the lid is open. The male is hiding under the rock, but the female isn't attacking him relentlessly. She occasionally opens her mouth wide, and he flutters again.



Too soon to call this success? They're both still in the box!

[davocean]

I wouldn't pop the champagne cork just yet, but that is a good sign, but keep an eye on it.

[tebstan]

The male and female hung out together, inside the box, for hours. No aggression, no drama. At one point the blenny and tang went in there to see what was going on. I wish I could have gotten a picture of that. All those times I tried a fish trap and caught nothing...

I tried to remove the box. As soon as the pair were in open terrain, the female went ballistic again. She beat the snot out of him in moments. She kept grabbing him by his tiny fin

I went in with the net, and caught the girl first. The offending culprit got tossed in the box. The male didn't go hover by the box this time, he must be holding a grudge. He looked awful, weak and stressed. He wouldn't even eat. I put him back in the box and released the female. He probably feels safer there. The female inspects him regularly, but doesn't rush at the container.

I don't know if I'll want to try again tomorrow. The little guy had a rough day, he needs some rest.

[joejoe1055]

might just give him a day to rest

[davocean]

Too bad you tried to remove that box, if they were chilling, and you just left them alone she could have gotten used to him enough to be cool.
I would have left them alone at least a day or maybe two if you can still feed them easily.
I would try at least one more time the way you did, and leave them alone as much as possible for a fair length of time, you might get lucky, but I would wait a day or two, let the male heal a bit.

[tebstan]

Originally Posted by davocean

Too bad you tried to remove that box, if they were chilling, and you just left them alone she could have gotten used to him enough to be cool.
I would have left them alone at least a day or maybe two if you can still feed them easily.
I would try at least one more time the way you did, and leave them alone as much as possible for a fair length of time, you might get lucky, but I would wait a day or two, let the male heal a bit.

I wish I had. When I saw a starry blenny, a yellow tang, and two clowns in the tiny box I figured it was time to remove it. They were a little crowded in there. The box seemed to be a neutral ground for the female.

I will wait a few days, the boy is looking rough. When he looks a bit better, I'll open the box and see what happens.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I haven't given up yet.

[00Warpig00]

I wonder if waiting for him to regroup and then going back to the box like they were and just leaving the box in until one or both abandon the box might work. Let them decide when to leave the box don't force it on them.

Nick

[tebstan]

that's what I want to try tomorrow. I let him rest today.

I'll catch the female, stick her in the box. Let her calm down, and the male will probably stay at her side outside of the box. After she's settled, I'll put the male in the box and cross my fingers. After they get their tussling worked out, I'll open the lid and let them come out on their own terms.

All of this depends on me being able to catch the female. Her obsession with the box makes it possible, but she's smart, and may have learned from my sneak attack the other day.

[davocean]

IME maroon clowns are like a lot of people I know, smart, but their stuborn nature tends to be a road block for logical thinking!LOL
I'd bet you swoop her a second time no problem.
If it goes smooth, stay far away and don't touch or move anything, at least a couple/few days or even more if you can.
Just moving that box could be a major disruption that could set her off, they're weird like that.

[Reefing Newbie]

Glad to see that you are still trying. Sorry that it hasn't worked out quite yet.

How close to the tank are you when they are together? I know instinct tells you to stay close if it goes wrong, but you may need to back away from the tank a little bit more ((just outside of their vision)). I am trying to get two pylei fairy wrasses to pair up ((two females)) while they are in QT with a pair of B&W ocellaris. I noticed while I am within their vision the dominant female ((who is going male now)) will be more aggressive to the submissive female, as in chasing and a little nipping. When I step 10ft back they calm down and it is an occasional flash from the dominant female to the lower ranking female. I think it is a correlation between me and food that gets them going. May or may not help, just thought I would throw it out there.

[tebstan]

I'll admit... I hover.

I opened the box today, and the male swam right out and went to the female's side. She grabbed him by his fin and slammed him into the box. He retreated to the other side of the box, and in her confusion to chase him she ended up inside. I closed the lid on her, and left the male out for a bit to catch his breath. Then, I netted him and stuck him in the box with her.

They were fine in the box together, again. After a while, I opened the lid without touching anything else. The female has swam in and out freely, the boy stays inside.

The tang keeps going in the tiny box. He spends at least 50% of his time in there. There's 100lb of live rock for him to graze on, but he keeps going in the box he can barely turn around in.



I am worried about leaving the box open over night. Think I should close it to protect the male?

[Reefing Newbie]

I would leave it open over night... That is just me though. I think he will probably stay in the box by himself and if the female stays up in the night she may go in the box. Who knows. The box seems to be neutral ground for some reason. If it doesn't work this time get another male and while the next male is in QT try and introduce her towards the end of it, say the last week add her to his tank. May make it easier and hey, it is a week away from home so she would probably be "new" to the territory and have to find somewhere else to go.

[tebstan]

Think trying that out with this male would still work?

I could set the QT tank back up and toss them both in for a few weeks. I was afraid to do it with a bare bottom QT tank, but now that I know he's not coming down with any illness I could pull some rubble from the sump to create a few safe spots for him, for when the girl gets a little too rough.

[tebstan]

I left the box open, but I woke up in the middle of the night and ended up shutting it. I know I know, I hover.

I went to spy on the tank with a red flashlight, and I saw the male laying on the sand bed. I thought he might have died, but he was just sleeping. I thought it was weird that he was out in the open like that, but he's pretty weak and doesn't know the terrain. I scooped him into the box and went back to bed.

When I looked in on him this morning, there were two emeralds, two hermits, and a snail in the box! I should have checked the box before dumping him in there in the dark. Luckily he's okay, but the emeralds fought among themselves and lost some limbs.

I opened the box today, and the male hasn't really left it. The female seems to be trying to entice him! She goes in the box, and when he goes to her side she starts to swim out of the box. He stops just past the lid and retreats, and she tries again. I haven't seen her grab him at all. She's started fanning the sand around the edge of the box, and tries to grab the open lid.

She's playing nice today, but he hasn't forgotten the beat-down he got yesterday.

[Reefing Newbie]

Keep the lid open I guess and see if she continues playing nice. She may have gotten over the territory invasion phase now. Could be the start of a great relationship...

[00Warpig00]

Shes trying to lure him out of the box so she can have her way with him... lol

Nick