skimz - searching for a peek at the upgraded impellor

[Reef_Noob]

Originally Posted by Warner Marine

Just wanted to clarify a few things here.

The original SKIMZ that came into the country had generation 1 impellers (Imported prior to 10-2011). See a Gen 1 impeller here:

Yep I learned the lesson the hard way.
But what beats me is why the people who put their faith in this brand in the initial stages (prior to 10-2011) had to go through this so called "Gen 1" impeller which had failed so badly. One can understand initial hiccups in a new brand or design, but rusting of impeller magnet?? Isn't it quite basic that salt water safe materials should be used in the first place even if Gen 1?
This issue wouldv been identified if the company had done long term tests on their pumps before releasing into the market and leave pre 10.2011 customers high and dry.
The company should acknowledge that Gen 1 impellers were faulty and offer a free upgrade to the Gen 1 customers.
This is not a one off issue but almost all initial customers of the Skimz ES5000 equipped skimmers has had this problem. Some within warranty period and some out of it. Now since this is a known issue and design flaw all Gen 1 customers should be given a replacement pump/impeller.

Please don't get me wrong here. I have nothing against Skimz. But iv burned my hand. So I am just sharing my personal experience. The body of the skimmer is good but the most important part of any skimmer - the pump is not well thought out.
It would be very helpful if someone can shed some light into what exactly is the difference between the old and new impeller assembly?
And also how it's holding up long term.
Building customer trust is one of the most important aspect of any brand.

[Warner Marine]

Originally Posted by Reef_Noob

It would be very helpful if someone can shed some light into what exactly is the difference between the old and new impeller assembly?
And also how it's holding up long term.

I think I've just done that above...

We received a couple HUNDRED SKIMMER in mid 2011 with gen. 1 impellers. We immediately started testing some in our facility and distributed a few to beta testers. We rapidly saw flaws with the gen. 1 impeller design. We put the retail release on HOLD until the impeller issue was resolved.

We waited a few MONTHS for Skimz and EDEN to come out with the second generation impeller. We proceeded to swap out every impeller in every skimmer BEFORE they were shipped to dealers and end users.

Like I said above, the second generation ES5000 and ES2800 impellers have been near flawless. I think I've replaced 1-2 ES5000 impellers and 0 ES2800 impellers that were equipped with the second generation design.

The ES2000 first generation impeller had restart issues for 80% of all users. The second generation still had a 10-15% startup problem. The 3rd generation has also been flawless.

[Buganddoug]

Do not get me wrong I like the my MF251 Warner Marine skimmer a lot and Jon Warner has been great dealing with. This is not my first Warner Marine Skimmer. I have loved them all! I just wish the pump was quite.
I took the pumps out again and I think I found what might be going on with mine. It looks like the rear bearing might be part of the problem. The little nipple on the back of the magnet is in bad shape. Looks like the Bearing is cutting into it.

[Buganddoug]

My MF251 has two eden ES5000 pumps and only one pump that makes noise and one that is pretty quite.

[Buganddoug]

Skimz debuting DC skimmer pump soon
I wounder if they will fit the skimmers that we have from Skimz?

This is from Reef Builders and you can watch them on Reef builder or you tube.

DC motor pumps are starting to make a splash in the industry and the pool of DC pumps is getting a little bit bigger with the upcoming Skimz DC skimmer pump the company is debuting this month. While details are still pretty scarce, the Skimz DC skimmer pump looks very similar to the Waveline DC pumps we saw with the RLSS skimmer earlier this year. Click through for more images and video of the skimmer in action.

The Skimz DC skimmer pumps will come in three models: Skimz DC 3000, Skimz DC 5000 and Skimz DC 10,000. The nomenclature for this line of pumps is the same at the Waveline DC pumps and most likely are sourced from the same manufacturer. The new Skimz DC pumps feature controllable flow rate and a feeding mode, plus they run more energy efficient than their AC brethren and are super quiet.

We were also looking forward to seeing Skimz pair up these motors with a few of the company’s popular skimmers with the cone and inverted cone design and it looks like they recently shot and uploaded a couple of videos already. The videos below show the larger Skimz SL200 protein skimmer with the inverted cone design, using the speed-controllable DC 5000 pump pulling 1800 l/h of air intake. The other video shows the smaller Skimz SM161 protein skimmer using the speed-controllable DC 3000 pumps. With the Skimz DC 3000 pump, the air intake is 960 l/h while only consuming 18W of power.

[cbonito]

Can anyone tell me what generation pump I have here and if it may be one of the suspects? I bought it from aquacave maybe a little over a month ago.



It's an sm122 monzter external unit.
The reason I ask is that yesterday it stopped, but restarted no problem and has been running fine ever since. I'm wondering if it may just be the fact I am running it on my reefkeeper and maybe a power dip screwed with it. I've had a few of those recently here.

I'm going to take it apart and look at the impeller this weekend and I'll post back here.

I dont think skimz is a joke like stated earlier as the skimmer quality itself is on par with anything costing many hundreds more, but if they screwed up on the pump what can you do? it's not like you can't retrofit a better pump to it. Some may want their pump or impellers replaced for free and justly so if under warranty....but to me that's just more trouble than it's worth.

I am nothing but happy with it myself.

[moondoggy4]

I looked at a couple of sites and it seems that the Warner Marine is on back order I am not sure if this is a old issue or something new, but when are they coming out?

[Reef_Noob]

When a company makes a product and the design flaw is straight forward ...a magnet that rusts, it should own up to it. The 1st generation impellers of the ES5000 was faulty a known fact and a ticking time bomb. For some it failed within the warranty period and for some if failed few days after...but it did fail. The company shouldv replaced the 1st generation impeller assembly since it is a known issue no matter if within warranty or out of warranty. It's like a car company recalling cars when a flaw is discovered.*
As a 1st generation customer who put their belief in a new product and gave the initial support to the company it is a let down and made me feel like a lab test animal the company used to learn a design flaw and nothing was done about it.*
The pump and impeller doesn't come cheap.
Retro fitting is an option but what is the point, then one might as well DIY a whole skimmer. I prefer to buy something that's specific and meant for use with that particular brand. Retro fitting with something other than recommended automatically voids warranty. And usually getting a skimmer with the pump works out cheaper than getting a good quality skimmer pump separately.

I'm not trying to bad mouth a company but sharing my and many other first generation customers opinion/experience. I hear the new generation impellers are working okay. The Skimz skimmer body is good but the 1st gen pumps/impeller aren't.*
Imagine a fully fledged SPS tank cared for many years and hobbyist sees a promising new skimmer on the market and he buys this and installs this as an "upgrade" and the magnet rusts. One can only imagine the stress involved. Going skimmerless and talking back and forth with customer care and bargaining warranty and pricing. And as we all know SPS corals it's all gonna perish. Years of hard work and huge money invested gone!! What do you tell these hobbyists? Wait for our 2nd generation impeller?*
A product has to be extensively tested before being offered for sale. And if a genuine design flaw is identified it should be dealt with promptly and compassionately.*

I want to make it clear i am not talking about Warner Marine. I have heard Warner marine has given good customer care support to their buyers. And thats great. But me and many 1st gen. customers I know have got the skimmer direct from Skimz and suffered the same fate. Anyone who bought the 1st generation skimmer with ES5000 pump knows the pumps were loud out of the box.

I have gone for a bubble king to replace my 252 external and getting an ATB for my new build. I like supporting new brands and equipment, thats why i went with Skimz, but as Elvis sings "wise men say.....only fools rush in"
Makes me feel like a grumpy old grand pa here ...which I am not so iv moved on.*

Good luck to the 2nd generation Skimz holders and but do keep an eye on that impellers.*

Happy Reefing!!

[ErikS]

Originally Posted by cbonito

Can anyone tell me what generation pump I have here and if it may be one of the suspects? I bought it from aquacave maybe a little over a month ago.

Can't say for certain but given it's recent purchase? The 2000's use a ferrite impeller = no rust issues. According to Jon (who know WAY more than I do) re-start is there only issue. I have a WM from the spring, same pump - starts & stops 2x a day.............no issues, works great.

[Buganddoug]

Originally Posted by Reef_Noob

I want to make it clear i am not talking about Warner Marine. I have heard Warner marine has given good customer care support to their buyers. And thats great. But me and many 1st gen. customers I know have got the skimmer direct from Skimz and suffered the same fate. Anyone who bought the 1st generation skimmer with ES5000 pump knows the pumps were loud out of the box.

Yes Warner Marine has to be one of the best customer service in the hobby.

[gcarroll]

I know Jon of Warner Marine and he is very concerned about these pump issues. Unlike the Skimz owners, Warner Marine owners have been taken care of. Not sure who is to blame for the Skimz customer service in the US. I would have expected you would have gone to the distributor for these impellor issues. I was one of the Warner Marine beta testers and have yet to have an issue with the beta nor the production model. Lucky I guess. In talking with Jon I have felt his frustration dealing with Skimz regarding this issue to the point of looking into alternate ways to bring in a more reliable product. It looks like Aquadigital has already looked into having the skimmers built using Sicce pumps. Skimz seems to be moving away from the Eden and going to a DC pump. I actually think that the Eden is a very strong performer in the market and if Gen 2 and Gen 3 impellors continue to hold up, the problems seen in the Gen 1 will be forgotten. I know that Jon, knows how to fix the startup issues in the ES2000, however it really does not seem like Skimz is looking for that type of advice. They seem to know it all!

I really hope Warner Marine will find a way to continue bringing in these skimmers and offering the exceptional customer service he provides!

[cbonito]

Originally Posted by ErikS

Can't say for certain but given it's recent purchase? The 2000's use a ferrite impeller = no rust issues. According to Jon (who know WAY more than I do) re-start is there only issue. I have a WM from the spring, same pump - starts & stops 2x a day.............no issues, works great.

Thanks for the info.
Yeah, I had a power dip and it stopped, but it restarted instantly when I unplugged and plugged it back into my reefkeeper. I'm not sure if it was even the pump. I was thinking it may have been the outlet since I think they say the 3 amp outlets use a different switching mechanism and dont like to work right with a small load on them...something like that.

Either way, I am really happy with the skimmer. It works excellent, was super easy to dial in and is built 10x better than any skimmer for 350 bucks needs to be.

[Buganddoug]

Jon Warner is GREAT!! Just like I said in post above. Today in the mail I got a new impeller and rear bearing. As of right now my loud pump # 1 is super quite. Funny part is the pump #2 I thought that was quite you can hear that pump now. No ware near as loud as the the old impeller and bearing. I think some of the problems with pumps being loud might be the rear bearing not getting enough water to them to keep lubed and cool. That might be one reason why Gen 2 and Gen 3 impellers have bigger holes in the middle of the impeller shaft,

[mchud]

I also have one of Jon's Skimmers a Mf 251. And it has been flawless. I did check when i got mine to make sure it had the updated parts in it. And i clean my pumps once a month so i could catch anything happening with any of my pumps. Plus with Jon if there was ever a issue it would be taken care of. He is one of the best i have ever dealt with.

[Buganddoug]

Has any one seen CSC Protein Skimmer maid by Skimz's ? They are using Sicce's pumps in them and I have they look just like my skimmer the MF251 skimmer and they show my model with 2 Sicce's PSK1200 pumps in them. I do wonder if they will drop right in or will need some kind of DIY. I also wonder if they performe better than the Edan pumps.

[Buganddoug]

Here's the blog I read.
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2012/06/aqu...mmer-line.html

[FishGuy5]

Is there an upgraded pump I can get for my Skimz SK181 protein skimmer? Is there a DC pump that can be switched out? Or upgraded to a larger pump? Thx for the help! Also looking for a replacement lid for the protein skimmer as I chipped mine. Where can I get one?

[Noamurmac]

Hey there can anyone pm me about where I could order a new impeller?

[dacaptain78]

Well this is not good news. My ES 5000 pump just seized on Saturday. Would' not turn on after I unplugged my SM 201 during a water change. Pulled it out of sump and found this. My skimmer is definitley out of warranty and I found a replacement impeller to cost about $100. What a joke.

Has anyone been able to get a replacement impeller on a skimmer out of warranty without having to argue with someone from Singapore, or has the ship sailed on manufacturer replacement of the faulty parts? Any leads appreciated.

Is there any way to determine if the pump itself was damaged from the impeller failure?

[dlondono]

oh darn it, such a nice skimmer such a nice design.

This thread helps me understand why I have been unsuccessful at procuring a Warner Marine skimmer. Twice I purchased a used 251 and twice I had to return it because the pumps were not in operational condition.

I have to agree, the owner of Warner Marine provides excellent if not superior customer service. From my experience he tried very hard to help me a few months ago despite the fact that the WM skimmers were discontinued some time ago.

Skimz on the other hand, told me they would try to assist me and to this day I am waiting for their final response, they completely stopped communicating with me.

Originally Posted by Buganddoug

That is what I am thinking of doing. Replacing the skimmer.