Chinese LED Lights

[clownfool]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Everyone:

As Debi tried to patiently explain, we have done everything to try to keep this thread open. However, there has been a constant stream of posts from people with commercial interests whose "advice" is geared to promote certain businesses. That is a tremendous disservice to those users who are seeking honest advice.

I understand the concern some have about limiting the mentioning of vendors/etc. However, when many of those recommendations aren't from actual experience, but are instead from people trying to profit from the advice, the information can do more harm than good.

We ask that you help police this thread, and report any posts that are attempting to promote a business. Remember, even sponsors aren't allowed to do that. Advice that is given with the expectation of profiting from it is never allowed on RC.

I totally agree with everything you said. It might be helpful if you could could post or explain what the basic rules of what is allowed and not allowed without posting the whole forum rules.


Is it not allowed to post links that go to a LED sellers website/ or auction page?

[clownfool]

Originally Posted by skyrne_isk

If you read Debi's post, it was pretty clear that it was collective purchasing and shilling that was going on. My post is none of that - just not sure which to buy and the SD light I have not seen talked about anywhere - else I would not have posted at all.


On with the thread.

I was not trying to offend you or anything, I just didn't know exactly what she was talking about.

[skyrne_isk]

Originally Posted by clownfool

I was not trying to offend you or anything, I just didn't know exactly what she was talking about.

No worries. From the user agreement:

" ....are deemed to be commercial in nature are a violation of this user agreement and will be removed. As it pertains to the User Agreement, Reef Central defines “commercial post” as knowing and willful posts made by private individuals or businesses, directly or indirectly seeking commerce. Additionally, posts made by individuals or businesses in regard to other commercial activities, in anticipation of direct or indirect economic benefit or relief from the subject activity, will generally be regarded as “commercial.”"


"Recognizing that it is impossible to construct a definition which will satisfy every situation or circumstance, Reef Central reserves the right to determine whether or not a post violates the “intent” of the “commercial post” policy or definition. Violation of this policy will be grounds for removal from our community."

As I read it, members were trying to get together and order in quantity to get a discount or were posting "questions" that were really advertising. Since many of these companies do not have good links to their home pages or even English sites at all, I am not sure how we can otherwise reference which lights we are speaking of without using some of these merchant sites.

[cmac23]

They wasn't talking about your post. They were talking about other post

[skyrne_isk]

Originally Posted by skyrne_isk

Folks, I am trying to make a decision between these two:

Two of these SD Intelligent LED Aquarium Lights:
http://www.ledaquagrow.com/en-view-cp403.html

or

Four of these D120s:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/prod...587678783.html

All on a 60 x 30 x 24 (l x w x d).

To me, it appears that the SD has a little better spread, more robust and programmable dimming, built-in timers, a remote control (and fewer wires since it is only 2 units). But it appears to be less light overall and if I read correctly, runs the LEDs at 3 watts each (at their capacity) where the D120 only runs the 3W LEDs at 2W each (below their capacity and thus prolonging life). So if money is close to a wash (and it is) does anyone from this or the previous thread have any opinion on which is the better option? Also, for the SD light, there is an option to upgrade to CREEs from BLs for an extra $70 - but you only can use 10K, 460nm, and 453nm. With BLs, you can use 10K, 14K, 18K, 460nm, 453nm, and 420nm. Are CREEs going to put out more light and is the more light worth the fewer spectrum choices? My intuition is that the additional spectrum control would not be worth forgoing for a better LED....

Another question (or two):

The first light (the SD) having fewer lights, does not appear to use any active cooling - only the aluminum heat sink. The D120 uses two fans and has manual knobs to control the blue and white channels. How much of a risk is it to rely on an active cooling system?

From what I understand, the SD has a remote that more or less allows to independently control the different color LEDs - of which each color of LED is on their own channel. So it isn't just a "blue" and "white" channel, but 10K, 14K, 18K, 460nm, and 453nm channels that can each be turned up or down. I guess the biggest question is about whether or not 96 3W LEDs can replace two 12K 400W metal halides.......really not sure and don't to gamble and find out the hard way.

[livingseas]

How can we discuss led lights and different products without linking or mentioning the manufacturers?
I wouldnt have found the manufacturer I just bought from without advice from others here. While I
Get the no shilling thing... I think its been very limited unless bhazard is chinese:-)

[mlott132]

Well I was hoping to be able to post some pics and review the new grid dimmer layout that twilight is building. Unfortunately, my lights are stuck in customs. I called FedEx this morning and apparently the customs documents were illegible. Supposedly they have received new docs and my lights should be at my door on Wednesday.

I hope that we can all do our part to keep this thread open as there is a ton of useful information in this and the one that was closed. I have learned a great deal about LEDs from both and I am sure that others feel the same.

[cmac23]

You can link sites, you just can't promote group buys or try to sell a product

[clownfool]

Does anyone know of any articles or about all the different Kelvins of Leds there are and how one may go about picking which leds to use together.
I'm totally new to this and all the numbers and brands of leds is confusing to me, but I will follow this thread.


please help

[bhazard451]

Here is a quick summary of info for these lights, and leds in general:

LED types:
Asian Bridgelux/Epistar leds: typically 60-100lm/watt
Cree XT-E/XPG/XPE leds: typically 110-140+lm/watt

You can use less Cree leds and get the same amount of light as a Bridgelux fixture with more leds. Crees are more expensive however. Be careful of listings that say "Cree" but really aren't. Look for specific Cree models like XPG/XPE and bin numbers in the listings. None of them seem to use the newer XT-E's yet.

Color Ratios:
1:1 Royal Blue: Cool White = 10-12k look
2:1/3:2 Royal Blue: Neutral White/Warm White = 14k Phoenix look
3:1 Royal Blue: Neutral White/Warm White = 20k Radium look (not tested, unsure of the look)

Led Colors to use:
Cool White (7500k-14000k)
Neutral White (~4500-6500k)
Warm White (~3500k)
Royal Blue (450nm)
Blue (470-480nm)
Violet (420nm)
Cyan (around 490nm). Can use Green if not available
Green (~520nm)

Led coloring is subjective. I have run standard cool white/royal blue and was unhappy with the look. Adding a few Violet and Red to it makes things look much more visually appealing. Cool Blue, Cyan, or Green can also be added for aesthetics, and for other photosynthesis peaks in the case of cool blue/cyan.

Optics:

Optics will focus light into a specified angle, compared to a less focused, wider spread light from a led with no optics.

60 degree optics or lower = more focused, more PAR at a lower depth. Use for deeper than 31"
90 degree optics = still focused but with a wider angle. Good for up to 30"
No optics (120 degrees or more) = wide angle, less focused. Good for a canopy

Companies:
Email them for requests. You can customize the lights how you want via most of the companies. Here are a few, but there are many more:

Evergrow-
Gehl-
Greensun- Luoke
E.Shine Systems
Twilight Group
Houyi
Damai

Reefbreeders- (US company, Evergrow reseller + more)
Pharos Led (Fathom LED, US Distributor)
Apollo Reef Led (US Company, works with Apex)

Warranty:
The US companies will provide a warranty. The chinese ones do also, but YMMV depending on the company. If you ever have to ship the unit back, the cost is astronomical if they choose not to cover it.

[clownfool]

Originally Posted by bhazard451

Here is a quick summary of info for these lights, and leds in general:

LED types:
Asian Bridgelux/Epistar leds: typically 60-100lm/watt
Cree XT-E/XPG/XPE leds: typically 110-140+lm/watt

You can use less Cree leds and get the same amount of light as a Bridgelux fixture with more leds. Crees are more expensive however. Be careful of listings that say "Cree" but really aren't. Look for specific Cree models like XPG/XPE and bin numbers in the listings. None of them seem to use the newer XT-E's yet.

Color Ratios:
1:1 Royal Blue: Cool White = 10-12k look
2:1/3:2 Royal Blue: Neutral White/Warm White = 14k Phoenix look
3:1 Royal Blue: Neutral White/Warm White = 20k Radium look (not tested, unsure of the look)

Led Colors to use:
Cool White (7500k-14000k)
Neutral White (~4500-6500k)
Warm White (~3500k)
Royal Blue (450nm)
Blue (470-480nm)
Violet (420nm)
Cyan (around 490nm). Can use Green if not available
Green (~520nm)

Led coloring is subjective. I have run standard cool white/royal blue and was unhappy with the look. Adding a few Violet and Red to it makes things look much more visually appealing. Cool Blue, Cyan, or Green can also be added for aesthetics, and for other photosynthesis peaks in the case of cool blue/cyan.

Optics:

Optics will focus light into a specified angle, compared to a less focused, wider spread light from a led with no optics.

60 degree optics or lower = more focused, more PAR at a lower depth. Use for deeper than 31"
90 degree optics = still focused but with a wider angle. Good for up to 30"
No optics (120 degrees or more) = wide angle, less focused. Good for a canopy

Companies:
Email them for requests. You can customize the lights how you want via most of the companies. Here are a few, but there are many more:

Evergrow-
Gehl-
Greensun- Luoke
E.Shine Systems
Twilight Group
Houyi
Damai

Reefbreeders- (US company, Evergrow reseller + more)
Pharos Led (Fathom LED, US Distributor)
Apollo Reef Led (US Company, works with Apex)

Warranty:
The US companies will provide a warranty. The chinese ones do also, but YMMV depending on the company. If you ever have to ship the unit back, the cost is astronomical if they choose not to cover it.

How would you go about finding REAL Cree Leds from fake if I buy Chinese?

[bhazard451]

Just to clear things up a little if anyone was wondering, I am in no way affiliated with any of these companies, nor do I get paid for any of this. I try lights out over my tanks from many companies, and test things like color ratios out for not only my benefit, but for anyone else that is interested as well. I sell the ones I don't like or need, and I keep the ones I love. I even made my first DIY Cree light out of the guts of a chinese light, and I love the thing. It puts most fixtures on the market to shame in pure power/output.

My personal favorites of the companies are no secret. I enjoyed my purchases with Evergrow, Reefbreeders, and Apollo the most. I even won a gift card from Hello Lights a few weeks ago that I'll probably use towards a Maxspect Razor too, as that light interests me. If I have nothing but good things to say about a company, I'm positive about them. If an experience isn't as positive, I make that known too.

I've used Odyssea products in the past because of the price, but I was always afraid my house would catch on fire due to its "quality". I can honestly say these lights are built much, much better.

Some of the companies want and use your feedback to make the lights better, which is really cool too. To see some suggestions from criticism of my first light actually go into a newer model was a really cool feeling... like someone is actually listening to what I want. If a company gives me an excellent customer experience, I will express my happiness with them. If it seems like shilling I apologize. Like I said, I pay for all of these, and am only interested in good service, price and quality, regardless of where it comes from.

Leds in general for reefs are interesting to me, and I'm a big value seeker in everything I buy. I would much rather pay $160-299 for a good light or to make one, over paying $500+ for something that looks nice, but may not even give better performance. There is a big possibility that the $500 light will also be obsolete within a year the way things are now. Led fixtures from 2010 are no match compared to some 2012 fixtures. This thread should be used to test, compare, and to provide info on all the led the choices available... not just chinese. I also really enjoy seeing and hearing about other people's experiences too, as it is just as helpful to me.

[clownfool]

Sometimes I see Cree led light fixtures in like 3 leds all together in one cluster and it's like 4 rows of those clusters. Why don't they just spread them (LEDS) out evenly?

[bhazard451]

Originally Posted by clownfool

How would you go about finding REAL Cree Leds from fake if I buy Chinese?

You won't be able to truly tell unfortunately. The best you can do is request the specific BINs they use, and match it up to a Cree datasheet. If it doesn't match up or they wont say, I'd be cautious.

None of them use the newer gen Cree XT-E leds yet anyway that I have in my DIY fixture and think are awesome. Despite Cree XPG/XPE being about 30% more efficient than bridgelux, they are still almost 2 years old and not worth the premium price to me, as the bridgelux fixtures just use more leds (55) over the Cree ones (40) to compensate.

[clownfool]

Originally Posted by bhazard451

You won't be able to truly tell unfortunately. The best you can do is request the specific BINs they use, and match it up to a Cree datasheet. If it doesn't match up or they wont say, I'd be cautious.

None of them use the newer gen Cree XT-E leds yet anyway that I have in my DIY fixture and think are awesome. Despite Cree XPG/XPE being about 30% more efficient than bridgelux, they are still almost 2 years old and not worth the premium price to me, as the bridgelux fixtures just use more leds (55) over the Cree ones (40) to compensate.

I agree. Lots of people use bridgelux and they work fine.

[bhazard451]

Originally Posted by skyrne_isk

Another question (or two):

The first light (the SD) having fewer lights, does not appear to use any active cooling - only the aluminum heat sink. The D120 uses two fans and has manual knobs to control the blue and white channels. How much of a risk is it to rely on an active cooling system?

From what I understand, the SD has a remote that more or less allows to independently control the different color LEDs - of which each color of LED is on their own channel. So it isn't just a "blue" and "white" channel, but 10K, 14K, 18K, 460nm, and 453nm channels that can each be turned up or down. I guess the biggest question is about whether or not 96 3W LEDs can replace two 12K 400W metal halides.......really not sure and don't to gamble and find out the hard way.

I'm actually interested in how the first light is too, but no one has tried it. The price was a bit high when I got a quote, especially for Crees. Like you, I wasn't willing to gamble and didn't see the value. The leds are spread a bit far for my liking too.

96 3W leds will not match up to two 400w halides. You would need nearly 180watts of leds per 36" of length. My DIY is 180watts over 24" and just about compares to 400w MH.

[clownfool]

Reef Aquarium LED Lighting Basics




I am new to LED lighting. I have no idea what the wattage and amps and stuff mean.

I do have LEDS on both of my tanks. I have a 120w LED light like on ebay. I want to replace it because it uses 1 watt leds. It's over my 24g aquapod.

I also have LEDs on my 28g JBJ nanocube. It has 10 bridgelux whitess, 7 blue, and 2 UV or violet I don't know. I'm thinking about changing out some of the LEDs to different ones, but like I said, I have no idea how to change them out because of wattage and stuff. The whites are 10k and the blue are royal blue. I have seen a lot of growth.


Reef Aquarium LED Lighting Basics

Does anyone know of any good articles or websites to learn more from, besides this thread.

[aandfsoccr04]

What is your opinion of the apollo solarblast, bhazard?

[bhazard451]

Originally Posted by aandfsoccr04

What is your opinion of the apollo solarblast, bhazard?

There's a solarblast thread which has a lot of info in it. I did a review on it and took pics.

It is another great light to get if you have an Apex. If you don't, I think adding a DIM4 controller to run it would make the price a little high.

To compare, the IT2040 would have the same features... more actually, for $180 less.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

[bhazard451]

After more swapping of lights between my Cree unit and the IT2040, I've come to the conclusion that you need red and cyan/green leds, even if you use warmer whites, for the best color. I have a watermelon zoa that is my reference, and it just looks better with my Cree unit.

The easiest way to add this, would be to just remove 4 whites from the ratio I used, and use 2 reds, 2 greens instead. This is another reason why I like these lights, if you aren't 100% happy, you can do something about it.

Another thing I found... if you edit the sunrise/sunset schedule and unplug the device... it loses the settings and the clock freezes until it turns back on. You won't be able to use a timer, but luckily you won't need to anyway. Not sure if the final version will be like this. This can get annoying if you need to unplug the device quite a bit like I've been doing.

I also think a lighter blue led would be better for the moonlights. The 450nm royal blues can get very purpleish when dimmed 5% and under.

[livingseas]

I picked up a bunch of extra leds for my 7x IT-120 lights to experiment based on
bhazard's feeback. These should cover the full spectrum beyond what I
already laid out below (I tweaked it before it went to production). Hopefully I
will get everything in another week or so.

42x 10k
28x 520nm
28x 595-600nm
28x 440-445nm
28x 400-410nm
28x 660nm

[bhazard451]

28white to 24blue is a lot of white. When the lights are dimmed to 60% blue to 80% white in my layout, it almost has a power compact type crisp white that overpowers the blue, and mine used more blue. This is where it is most apparent that you need the reds/greens for better color, as some colors look dull instead of crisp like I would have thought. It reminds me of my old Red Sea Max Power compact white bulbs alot.

[jefftse]

bhazard, can you pm me for your email? do you have the tutorial for the driver installation for dimming?

[nasoisking]

Im looking at buying a couple cheap leds for my 120 (4x2x2). I have a mixture of sps,lps, and softies. I am currently running 8 4ft t5s overdriven with icecap 660s. I was wondering what you guys thought of this fixture conpared to aquariumleds or taotronic? http://www.ebay.com/itm/120W-Dimmabl...item43b357181e

I would like to avoid needing to add additional lighting to suppliment if possible, but I dobt want a washed out,look. What do you recommend?
Thanks in advance!

[1mbrews8]

what would the layout for a d120 look like with your specs and the "added" red and green like you were talking about above? thanks!

Mike