Skimmer upgrade on 350ish gallon system

[ksed]

That's one heck of a skimmer! How tall is that unit?

Originally Posted by bernie lyons

Here is a pic of the dual mazzei counter current (recirculating) MTC skimmer:90 - 350 gallon rating.This design allows for air/water adjustments to a variety of tank sizes.
I have actually set one up on a friends 90 gallon tank and his tank has never looked better !

[Drae]

Originally Posted by bernie lyons

I'm sure it will put 2000l of air per hour with 4000l water circulating through it,and 100 cups of clear sea water but no skimming ,umm, good concept, at least you can brag about the number of times you emptied your cup..lol !

The mazzei venturi skimmers do look nice but they're not the only skimmers that pull dark nasty skim out for sure. Needle wheels work well when balanced and there's plenty needle wheel skimmers on TOTM's. Show me 2 tanks running mazzei's that look good and I'll show you 3 running needle wheels that look just as good. There's more than one way to skin the proverbial cat when it comes to skimmers. This has been argued back and forth for years so i'll leave it at that. I will be buying a life reef skimmer next though.

[swcc]

Originally Posted by Drae

The mazzei venturi skimmers do look nice but they're not the only skimmers that pull dark nasty skim out for sure. Needle wheels work well when balanced and there's plenty needle wheel skimmers on TOTM's. Show me 2 tanks running mazzei's that look good and I'll show you 3 running needle wheels that look just as good. There's more than one way to skin the proverbial cat when it comes to skimmers. This has been argued back and forth for years so i'll leave it at that. I will be buying a life reef skimmer next though.

exactly... to further this... aspirated skimmers have an advantage in size and consistency of bubbles produced... efficiency..

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by Drae

I will be buying a life reef skimmer next though.

X2... I like the volume that is run through the skimmer. Using a Laguna, Sicce, or the DC pumps (after they prove themselves for longevity) will be the hot ticket.

[tallreefguy]

Looking at the Life Reef C/C Venturi skimmers, at first glace it would appear that they can process quite a bit of water, but how fine are the bubbles that it produces vs a needle wheel?
Would you say the foam head from a C/C Venturi is closer to a Needle Wheel skimmer, or is it more like a beckett skimmer?

If I were considering a Life Reef C/C Venturi, I'd probably get the 4' one for increased contact time. Does the swirling pattern of a C/C affect the foam head?

I also think that part of my problem with my Beckett is that the Injector housings leak air. They do not have thumb screws / o-rings. They simply slide into place & I can shut the air gate valve totally off and it will still pull in a decent amount of air. That makes it hard to really tune it in. I've found it produces foam best when the air valves are about 90% closed...

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by tallreefguy

Looking at the Life Reef C/C Venturi skimmers, at first glace it would appear that they can process quite a bit of water, but how fine are the bubbles that it produces vs a needle wheel?
Would you say the foam head from a C/C Venturi is closer to a Needle Wheel skimmer, or is it more like a beckett skimmer?

If I were considering a Life Reef C/C Venturi, I'd probably get the 4' one for increased contact time. Does the swirling pattern of a C/C affect the foam head?

I also think that part of my problem with my Beckett is that the Injector housings leak air. They do not have thumb screws / o-rings. They simply slide into place & I can shut the air gate valve totally off and it will still pull in a decent amount of air. That makes it hard to really tune it in. I've found it produces foam best when the air valves are about 90% closed...

Lots of youtube videos of these skimmers in action. There is also threads here that members give pics of. Just do a search of this forum of Lifereef.

[wildman926]

Here is a video of a Lifereef SVS2-24 in action. Not recommended for your size, but just an idea of how the contact and scrubbing time are in these skimmers.

[kris101]

This is my old skimmer from several years ago. I just plugged it in on a sump full of cycling live rock. I just turned the pump on and you can see what it pulled immediately. It had the Mazzi injector and it had the re-circ option. (I didn't feel the need to use it) Also note the water level, I didn't even set it yet and it was pulling gunk

I now run an external VS-3 30" on a 180 with a 75 gallon sump. about 210-215 total gallons. I love these skimmers. I bought my first one in 1994 and it is truly set and forget.
I have tried the Needle wheels (Alpha 170) and it worked well but it seemed like I was always adjusting it

Jeff at Lifereef is a great Guy to work with, but His stuff is in demand. I just got my VS-3 30 last week and I believe he said he only had 36" in stock

[tallreefguy]

I found a thread on RC about LifeReef's - mostly what I read was becketts and NW's outperform the Lifereef's Venturi method.
Kris - Do you find yourself having to constantly adjust these skimmers, or are they pretty turn key to dial in? In your opinion, how does the foam production compare to a beckett / needlewheel? (I've found becketts don't make a nice foam head, but just gobs of large air bubbles in the tower that move a lot, and Needle wheels are very consistent, nice froth foam)
That's something I HATE about my beckett. I did contact MRC about getting a new Injection Manifold, but they referred me to http://www.seaatlanta.com/ for parts, and they still have not got back to me. They do not seem like a reliable source for MRC parts...

[kris101]

[QUOTE Kris - Do you find yourself having to constantly adjust these skimmers, or are they pretty turn key to dial in? In your opinion, how does the foam production compare to a beckett / needle wheel? QUOTE]


Very much turnkey! The only adjustment that is made is with the gate valve on the return side. It sets the water level in the skimmer. No real adjustments required. In general, I don't touch my skimmer until I have to empty the cup or clean it every once and a great while. The foam is very consistent and typically seems like it is always producing gunk. Wet or dry

I have no experience with becketts.

With the Alpha 170 I had, it used a Red Dragon pump and it moved a lot of water mixed with a ton of air. The foam production was pretty consistent but there would be days that it didn't produce any gunk- even with consistent foam. In my opinion, Needle wheels move a lot of water very fast through the skimmer and in general have less contact time. The Alpha was a great skimmer that I paid good money for. It did work, but always seemed to need adjustments to get it to function consistently.

I defiantly do not want to add to the which skimmer is best debate
I think there are quite a few us that have lifereef skimmers on Reef central and not much is said about them because they are really a non issue. they are set and forget so there is really nothing to complain, tweak or upgrade to get better performance

[tkeracer619]

I really wish LifeReef would update the body/cup union. It really isn't that hard to make a nice union there. I didn't like the lifereefs I used (3 of them). They did skim well but none of those tanks were really stellar and always had nutrient issues, it didn't have to work hard to skim well. Maybe it was how they were originally setup and the customers tendency to overfeed. Whats important is that those who use them like them and are able to keep nutrients low. I for one though cannot get over the oring wedged between mismatched acrylic tubes as a neck seal and that one thing removes it from my radar. Maybe that was cool back in the 80s but we have cnc machines with freaking lasers attached to them. Jeff is a master at acrylic work so you can't tell me he can't do it with his eyes closed and hands tied behind his back...

Anyways, I think there are a ton of great skimmers out there that will work. A bucket with an air stone will work. Problem is a lot of skimmers work so well out of the box these days that most people toss it in and call it a day. You need to find one that fits your requirements. Confirm it will work adequately and that it has no major flaws. Then pull the trigger.

If you can keep low nutrients it doesn't matter if its a maxijet powered 1 liter bottle skimmer.

Originally Posted by kris101

The foam production was pretty consistent but there would be days that it didn't produce any gunk- even with consistent foam.

This is typical of a skimmer when it brings docs to a low enough level that it really doesn't perform well. Carbon dosing helps in this regard. Some foods can also knock them down for extended periods. That isn't necessarily what was happening with you and clearly it didn't keep nutrients low or you wouldn't have replaced it. Further proof that skimmers function differently on different systems based on a set of factors we haven't completely locked down yet. There are a bunch of people running Vertex skimmer that would think you are crazy just like you probably think I am crazy for not liking the LR skimmers

[tallreefguy]

Originally Posted by jda

My next evolution is going to be the old bodies with better (more reliable) pumps. I hate the reliability of the sedra pumps too. Ehiem, Red Dragon or Askoll next time.

I would not sell the beckett until you are sure that you like the Orca. I have a friend in KC who sold his MRC4 for an Orca and had to buy it back. I have personally never seen a NW skimmer that could outperform a nice Beckett, but I do know from experience that they are no fun if you have to tweak on them a lot.

What was wrong or disappointing about the Orca that your friend did not like?

[bernie lyons]

Originally Posted by swcc

exactly... to further this... aspirated skimmers have an advantage in size and consistency of bubbles produced... efficiency..

Not so I'm afraid ,I've owned some of the largest nw skimmers made for home use eg:H&S A-450 and the bubbles on any of these skimmers are no smaller than a mazzie venturi; To add to that, the production of bubbles is very consistant to any nw skimmer including the bubble king.
Don't forget that little tiny shells that get trapped in these nw pins impedes apone the bubble production...

[bernie lyons]

Originally Posted by tallreefguy

Looking at the Life Reef C/C Venturi skimmers, at first glace it would appear that they can process quite a bit of water, but how fine are the bubbles that it produces vs a needle wheel?
Would you say the foam head from a C/C Venturi is closer to a Needle Wheel skimmer, or is it more like a beckett skimmer?

If I were considering a Life Reef C/C Venturi, I'd probably get the 4' one for increased contact time. Does the swirling pattern of a C/C affect the foam head?

I also think that part of my problem with my Beckett is that the Injector housings leak air. They do not have thumb screws / o-rings. They simply slide into place & I can shut the air gate valve totally off and it will still pull in a decent amount of air. That makes it hard to really tune it in. I've found it produces foam best when the air valves are about 90% closed...

I've run beckett skimmers (MTC) for nearly 15 years and never had this kind of problem you describe with yours ... this to be a manufacturer design flaw , but certainly not a beckett issue.

[bernie lyons]

Originally Posted by desjardinii

Some of the best tanks I've seen have oversized skimmers so which ever way you go don't hold back. I'm running an SRO XP 5000 ext cone on a 150 and though it is massive it's very easy to adjust and quite predictable and I love it being external for ease for cleaning etc.

Agree on the oversized skimmer principle...

[bernie lyons]

Originally Posted by ksed

That's one heck of a skimmer! How tall is that unit?

Thanks , the total height on that skimmer is 48"inches by 6"inch diameter reaction chamber which is 30"inches tall.

[swcc]

Originally Posted by bernie lyons

Not so I'm afraid ,I've owned some of the largest nw skimmers made for home use eg:H&S A-450 and the bubbles on any of these skimmers are no smaller than a mazzie venturi; To add to that, the production of bubbles is very consistant to any nw skimmer including the bubble king.
Don't forget that little tiny shells that get trapped in these nw pins impedes apone the bubble production...

The inconsistent nature of bubble size can be seen clearly in the life reef video posted previously in this thread. Don't know of any quality aspirated skimmer that does that.. there are benefits and drawbacks to different designs.. no big deal. Tiny shells in my pinwheel... Nah... Not happening.

[bernie lyons]

Originally Posted by swcc

The inconsistent nature of bubble size can be seen clearly in the life reef video posted previously in this thread. Don't know of any quality aspirated skimmer that does that.. there are benefits and drawbacks to different designs.. no big deal. Tiny shells in my pinwheel... Nah... Not happening.

I do and have owned several quality asperater design's. As far as the video shown , perhaps this venturi design was tuned differently. I know for fact having owned needle wheels (H&S-Deltec,ect) , asperator (klaes) venturi's , becketts and air driven that anything not tuned optimately will yeild different bubble size .

[AcroporAddict]

I am running an Vertex Alpha 300 on a 450 net gallon SPS system with no complaints. Lots of nice stinky nog. What I have always loved about the alpha series is their consistent skimmate production, along with their low electrical consumption. My 300 uses twin RD 1500 pumps.

[swcc]

Originally Posted by bernie lyons

I do and have owned several quality asperater design's. As far as the video shown , perhaps this venturi design was tuned differently. I know for fact having owned needle wheels (H&S-Deltec,ect) , asperator (klaes) venturi's , becketts and air driven that anything not tuned optimately will yeild different bubble size .

Aspirated skimmers chop the incoming air consistently. It's the purpose of the pinwheel...Non aspirated skimmers simply suck in air. The bubbles enter and are not consistent. Sorry, that is simply the way it is.

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by swcc

The inconsistent nature of bubble size can be seen clearly in the life reef video posted previously in this thread.

You must have superhuman vision...... nahhhhh... I raise the BS flag on this one.

[swcc]

Originally Posted by wildman926

You must have superhuman vision...... nahhhhh... I raise the BS flag on this one.

well...yeah...
whaaa... you can't see it... LOL...
gotta have fun sometimes.

[wildman926]

Originally Posted by swcc

well...yeah...
whaaa... you can't see it... LOL...
gotta have fun sometimes.

LOL... Good one..

[bernie lyons]

Originally Posted by swcc

Aspirated skimmers chop the incoming air consistently. It's the purpose of the pinwheel...Non aspirated skimmers simply suck in air. The bubbles enter and are not consistent. Sorry, that is simply the way it is.

Ok now , all skimmers with the exception of the air driven (wood block /-ceramic) are based on the Bernoulli principle. Whether the venturi through water pressure feed , sucks in the air and through a pressure 'differential' (where the air enters) creates a very fine mist or a needle wheel sucks in the air throught the same pressure but uses a multiple pin arrangement to chop the air , either way there is NO PERFECT bubble created by either of these devices...end of story !

[jda]

Originally Posted by tallreefguy

What was wrong or disappointing about the Orca that your friend did not like?

It didn't perform even half as well as the becket that he had... so he bought it back from the guy that he sold it too.