Help!!! Worm Infestation Problem.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by shrimphead

I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing you but I would say your grain size of sand looks way too large for a deep sand bed and therefore maybe the detritus isn't getting processed.

It's Okay shrimphead, criticism is a good way to improvement. Please note from the attached photo that it is fine sand compared to the dime and about 1" to 2" deep only. Also, note the detritus a worm had pulled down inside the sand bed for later consumption.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by lagatbezan

Maybe increase the water flow at the bottom of the tank so that there is more water movement and less waste collected on the sand. The best way to reduce their population is by reducing their food source. Also reduce feedings for your fish for a little while. Your fish would be fine and it will starve most of the worms.
Lastly I know prazipro has a effect of some tube worms. I don't know if it have any effect on the type you are dealing with. But you can always setup a bucket and do a little experiment.

You are right about the water movement. Problem is, detritus sticks to their tentacles as soon as it touches it so increasing water movement would help but not eradicate the problem. Please note the previous photo. I thought about Prazi many times, but I am afraid to get an Ammonia spike if all their population get killed at the same time.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by bills tank

Get a sand sifting starfish and they will all b gone.

Thanks Bills tank. I think this is worth a shot.

Originally Posted by bills tank

Sorry to disagree with the worms being the cause and you could b right about it but I just have never heard of it before or seen it myself hope my suggestions help.

Originally Posted by cloak

I disagree. I highly doubt these worms are responsible for the detritus buildup.

Its OK to disagree. Please refer to the previous photo of a worm pulling detritus inside the sand bed. Of course, all the worms are doing the same thing. I just think I got a different specie of worms! They are probably from another planet!LOL.

[shrimphead]

Originally Posted by ReeFreak1

It's Okay shrimphead, criticism is a good way to improvement. Please note from the attached photo that it is fine sand compared to the dime and about 1" to 2" deep only. Also, note the detritus a worm had pulled down inside the sand bed for later consumption.

looking at the reference of the coin it is still very course sand for a deep sand bed. To try and explain this simply also if you want I will i'll try and dig up some articles on deep sand beds and grain size if your interested. a deep sand bed is about creating an area that is very low oxygen so a type of bacteria can colonise there and process nitrate into nitrongen gas, so the grain size of the sand is very important. it needs to be very fine sand and at least a certain depth before it can create a low enough oxygen area before it can create an area for the right type of bacteria to grow,
looking at your sand bed its just not fine enough sand, nothing to do with your worm

[Betta132]

That's a fairly impressive amount of gunk. You must have squirrel worms or something.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by shrimphead

looking at the reference of the coin it is still very course sand for a deep sand bed. To try and explain this simply also if you want I will i'll try and dig up some articles on deep sand beds and grain size if your interested. a deep sand bed is about creating an area that is very low oxygen so a type of bacteria can colonise there and process nitrate into nitrongen gas, so the grain size of the sand is very important. it needs to be very fine sand and at least a certain depth before it can create a low enough oxygen area before it can create an area for the right type of bacteria to grow,
looking at your sand bed its just not fine enough sand, nothing to do with your worm

Sure, your articles are welcome. Even though grain size subject is under a lot of debate, the grain size I have is 0.5 to 1mm, which is acceptable to many aquarists for a deep sand bed setup. I do have a 5" deep sand bed in my refugium, but my display tank sand is not deep 1 to 2". I do not have worms in my refugium, since I filter the gunk before it gets there.

[shrimphead]

I found this a useful article on deep sand beds. http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html.

and a chart on recommended grain sizes http://www.ronshimek.com/images/sedi...ibution_bw.jpg

[ReeFreak1]

I ran an experiment today to prove that the worms actually pull organic matter inside the sand bed.

Setup:
I fed the fish the normal dose of palettes then I started adding pieces of clams slowly until no fish was interested in anymore food. Then I put 3 pieces of clam on the sand bed. The pieces were approximately .5"x .2"x.2" in size.

Results:
Immediately all nearby worms stuck their tentacles covering the pieces and within three minutes, all disappeared under the sand. I quickly dug and tossed the pieces out.

Conclusion:
These worms are nothing good to my tank even though many thinks else wise. They do the same for fish feces. I can disturb an area to get all detritus out and within two days, the same spot will be loaded again.

[ReeFreak1]

Does anyone have other ideas for getting rid of these worms?

[Betta132]

Ways to kill/remove things that live in dirt:
Constantly uproot (digging thing?)
Poison (yeeeah, no)
Starve (maybe?)
Manually attack (nope, too many. Could be satisfying, though)
Add predator (what eats worms? Blue crab?)
Remove dirt (probably not)
Sift dirt (doubt that's doable)
Strangle/smother (not sure how to accomplish that, probably bad idea anyway)
Constantly annoy (maybe)
Nuke (nope)

Got another idea. You'll need some kind of plastic mesh that's large enough for the worms to crawl up through, but small enough that a worm crawling around on top will stay on top if you pick the mesh up. Place the mesh over an area of the sandbed and aim a powerhead or similar at the middle of the mesh. I doubt they'll like that. Theoretically, they'll crawl up out of the sandbed in order to go somewhere else. I doubt they can move fast, so you'll have lots of them on the mesh after a bit. You could then just pull the mesh out, dump the worms, and put it back in.
Ooh- arrow crab would most likely eat them. Arrow crabs are known to eat tubeworms and similar. You'd have to get a large arrow, though, and they eat small fish...
Perhaps a combination? Remove the fish and don't feed the tank, plus add a couple of large crabs? The lack of food should make them crawl out to look for more, and the large hungry crabs should finish them off pretty quickly.

For manual removal, what about a kitty litter scoop?
Or, hmm... get a powerhead and set it up so that it blows across the sand to keep gunk from settling at all. Also add some filter-feeders, or maybe just a good mechanical filter, to get the gunk out of the tank before the worms get it. Get some long tweezers to pick them out if they start crawling out to look for food.
Or give in and just plumb a sump full of chaeto in there to deal with the extra nitrates.

Just realized we're all just sitting here plotting genocide.
We have lots of ideas.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by Betta132

Ways to kill/remove things that live in dirt:
Constantly uproot (digging thing?)
Poison (yeeeah, no)
Starve (maybe?)
Manually attack (nope, too many. Could be satisfying, though)
Add predator (what eats worms? Blue crab?)
Remove dirt (probably not)
Sift dirt (doubt that's doable)
Strangle/smother (not sure how to accomplish that, probably bad idea anyway)
Constantly annoy (maybe)
Nuke (nope)

Got another idea. You'll need some kind of plastic mesh that's large enough for the worms to crawl up through, but small enough that a worm crawling around on top will stay on top if you pick the mesh up. Place the mesh over an area of the sandbed and aim a powerhead or similar at the middle of the mesh. I doubt they'll like that. Theoretically, they'll crawl up out of the sandbed in order to go somewhere else. I doubt they can move fast, so you'll have lots of them on the mesh after a bit. You could then just pull the mesh out, dump the worms, and put it back in.
Ooh- arrow crab would most likely eat them. Arrow crabs are known to eat tubeworms and similar. You'd have to get a large arrow, though, and they eat small fish...
Perhaps a combination? Remove the fish and don't feed the tank, plus add a couple of large crabs? The lack of food should make them crawl out to look for more, and the large hungry crabs should finish them off pretty quickly.

For manual removal, what about a kitty litter scoop?
Or, hmm... get a powerhead and set it up so that it blows across the sand to keep gunk from settling at all. Also add some filter-feeders, or maybe just a good mechanical filter, to get the gunk out of the tank before the worms get it. Get some long tweezers to pick them out if they start crawling out to look for food.
Or give in and just plumb a sump full of chaeto in there to deal with the extra nitrates.

Just realized we're all just sitting here plotting genocide.
We have lots of ideas.

Wow. You have amazing ideas Betta and I really appreciate your effort! I like the plastic mesh idea as it is probably the least stressful or risky. I think it would be good for limiting their number in open areas. I also like the strangle idea as I'm so tempted now lol! I'm considering using a sperate container to put the fish in as you suggested earlier in this thread. I'm going to supply it with tank water through an overflow box to keep the bio filter going. I will run the return through mechanical filter to starve the worms. I just purchased a brittle star fish and a sand sifting one hopping this would make a difference. I have been trying cualerpa in my sump but it keeps melting away probably due to strong lighting. I will adjust that and try again.

With all these ideas on hand and the ambition I have, I'm sure I'm going to nail the little suckers. I will update accordingly...

[ReeFreak1]

Hey everyone. I finally solved the worm infestation problem and here's what I did:

I added a Rubbermaid container and put a circulation pump to pull DT water into the container and overflows it back into the DT. I pulled all the sand from the DT and put into the Rubbermaid container slowly over a few days. At the end all the sand was moved into the Rubbermaid container and no sand remained in the DT. The water circulation is necessary to keep the bio filter up and running. After a few weeks, I got rid of all the worms in the sandbed. My tank looks pretty ugly now (no sandbed and a Rubbermaid hanging out), but I'm OK with the result.

Please note that some worms have populated the live rock so if I put the sand back in the DT, they will multiply again.

My next task would be to remove all the live rock from DT, move the sand into the DT, and put all the live rock into the Rubbermaid container. After a few weeks, I will clear the live rock from the worm infestation as well due to starvation. Then it would be safe to return the live rock back into the DT and get rid of the Rubbermaid.

Do you think my next task would work as well?