Inventronics LED Drivers -- Yes or No?

[zachts]

Originally Posted by beolson25

That being said the one thing people didn't address when using the Meanwell drivers is that you have to have a separate 10V source for dimming. I understand that is not a huge deal but as we all know in the aquarium world those extra outlet spaces are at a premium without a large number of splitters.
.

LPF and others don't need reference voltage for manual dimming and are apex etc compatible..

[zachts]

Originally Posted by jedimasterben

Why do people still want analog drivers is my question.

Simplicity! that is if you don't want or need a controller or already have an APEX, etc........otherwise.......LDD!

[zachts]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

While yes it is the current that kills BUT
in this situation the danger is the increased voltage level being able to overcome the resistance of human skin and allow the shock to transfer around the human body..

I work in an industry where physical contact with 48V bus bars carrying high current (thousands of amps) happens all the time with no real danger.
Making contact with your hand is drastically different from making that same contact with a metallic object.
I've seen wrenches,etc.. completely vaporized.. yet have no problem grabbing energized bus bars with my hand.

Above SELV voltages shock danger increases drastically.
Moisture also reduces the resistance.. (think 9V battery and touching your tongue to it vs putting a dry finger across the contacts)

eventually someone will chime in with the equasions but I don't recall them. the danger of over ~50v DC is that the skin has a very high resitance (as does human tissue in general) higher voltages make it much easier for that leathal dose of current (only a few mA) to reach your heart and kill you!

Momentary contact with high voltage DC (at least if you are wet and somewhat grounded, or if you are grounded from one hand to the other) WILL KILL YOU. in an aquarium setting it is very dangerous. (those popular CREE led bulbs operate at 120 volt DC and is why they coated in plastic so that even if the glass breaks the bulb dosn't shatter allowing you to thouch a high voltage contact when powered....)

[mussel and hate]

I own four inventronics drivers. One EUC-025S070DS, two EUC-040S045DS and one EUC-075S070DT. All of them running for about two years of continuous daily 12 hour cycles. No problems, excellent reliability(so far) and superb efficiency(especially the 75w).

If you really want to use a PWM controller inventronics does make a PWM to 0-10V converter. I can't be bothered personally. A pot and adjustable height seems to do the trick. I never needed to dim my MH or fluorescents. Maybe this programmable dimming is some sort of millennial fad that old school reefers like me just don't understand. Regardless they are excellent drivers and control options are plentiful.

Regarding safety I'm pretty sure you can electrocute yourself with a PAR38, MH, T5 or any other 120v light. That risk never seemed to stop anyone. I understand most of the people on this board employ submerged 120v conductors on a variety of aquarium components(I don't) so what's the big deal?

[ghellin]

I always love the "it hasn't happened to me" response....

[perkint]

Originally Posted by mussel and hate

Regarding safety I'm pretty sure you can electrocute yourself with a PAR38, MH, T5 or any other 120v light. That risk never seemed to stop anyone

But not so many people DIY all of the wiring for those

Tim

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by mussel and hate

Regarding safety I'm pretty sure you can electrocute yourself with a PAR38, MH, T5 or any other 120v light. That risk never seemed to stop anyone. I understand most of the people on this board employ submerged 120v conductors on a variety of aquarium components(I don't) so what's the big deal?

The devices we buy (heaters/pumps,etc...) already have the protection required for safety (double insulation,etc...) and people aren't opening them up and being exposed to the dangers. And we still recommend GFCI devices for that chance that the protection fails on them..
When building/wiring your own light with high voltage supplies you may be exposed to those voltages.. People just need to be aware..

Thankfully many newbies seem to have lots of luck on their side.. I can't tell you all the STUPID things I've seen "beginners" doing over the years that could have easily killed them..

[ghellin]

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

The devices we buy (heaters/pumps,etc...) already have the protection required for safety (double insulation,etc...) and people aren't opening them up and being exposed to the dangers. And we still recommend GFCI devices for that chance that the protection fails on them..
When building/wiring your own light with high voltage supplies you may be exposed to those voltages.. People just need to be aware..

Thankfully many newbies seem to have lots of luck on their side.. I can't tell you all the STUPID things I've seen "beginners" doing over the years that could have easily killed them..

Well said. "Like"

[beolson25]

Well ... looks like I may be using a product which is not the safest possible option. I was going to use terminal strips to connect the wires between drivers and LEDs but now I think that would be too open so I'll solder them and use shrink tubing to make sure they are well sealed.

I'll get it done and possibly post some pictures ... I don't plan on it being too pretty so we'll see. But ... you will know if you don't hear from me in several months that is was a bad idea.

I'm glad this thread was created though because it certainly made me stop and think ... unfortunately I am on a budget and already paid for the drivers. I really think I'll be fine since I will be extra careful.

[beolson25]

Oh ... and here is my own little silly comment ...

This is my first post to reach 2 pages ... YAY!


I know ... not that exciting but I'm glad I could ask a question that triggered some debate and intelligent discussion.

[mussel and hate]

People DIY all sorts of things electrical and otherwise. Back in the '80s DIY wired fluorescent aquarium lights were common, later DIY MH became so. Aquarists currently DIY all manner of electrical equipment and connections both high and low voltage ac and dc. This is nothing different or new. Caution is always prudent when engaging in pursuits that could end one's life. GFCI use is mandatory with the aquarium as it is in the bathroom regardless of what sort of lighting is chosen or who assembled said lighting.

I've experienced failure of submerged 120V power cords. I don't submerge power cords any more. I do DIY aquarium gear with 120v. I'm much more confident in my abilities than those of some anonymous factory worker in some foreign nation, and so far my track record supports my confidence.

DIY isn't for everyone. If you're not certain you can do a thing safely and properly perhaps it's best to leave that thing to "the pros". If on the other hand you are competent then don't fret the voltage of an Inventronics constant current driver.

[mussel and hate]

Oh ya regarding built in safeties, I recall the melting Marineland aquarium heater than nearly caused a fire in my house. So much for the protection of commercial goods.

To add insult to injury Marineland was willing to replace the faulty heater if I mailed it in with proof of purchase. Never mind the dead marine life in my tank or the fact that postage exceeded the value of the heater. Good times.

[mcgyvr]

Originally Posted by mussel and hate

Oh ya regarding built in safeties, I recall the melting Marineland aquarium heater than nearly caused a fire in my house. So much for the protection of commercial goods.

To add insult to injury Marineland was willing to replace the faulty heater if I mailed it in with proof of purchase. Never mind the dead marine life in my tank or the fact that postage exceeded the value of the heater. Good times.

even "professional" products fail sometimes... it just happens..
mostly because a human is putting them together..

[sleepydoc]

Originally Posted by mussel and hate

Oh ya regarding built in safeties, I recall the melting Marineland aquarium heater than nearly caused a fire in my house. So much for the protection of commercial goods.

To add insult to injury Marineland was willing to replace the faulty heater if I mailed it in with proof of purchase. Never mind the dead marine life in my tank or the fact that postage exceeded the value of the heater. Good times.

Yeah - that's pretty much standard for warranties. They will pay for the device itself, nothing more - no postage, no 'loaner heater' to keep your tank warm while you get the new one, no coverage for the $500 in livestock that died. Warranties are good, but reliability is better.

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

even "professional" products fail sometimes... it just happens..
mostly because a human is putting them together..

The one thing that a commercial product theoretically buys you is quality control and a design done by someone with more experience and education. Having something that works is one thing, having a robust design that won't flake out is another. Not that all DIY designs are poor or all commercial products are well designed & built...