LFS Confusing ME! need dvise!!!

[Spyderturbo007]

As others have pointed out, the easiest thing to do right now is add food on a daily basis. I would recommend what you think you would feed to your first fish. If that decomposes into Nitrates (bypassing a positive Ammonia test) then your biological filter is established enough to handle a fish. If you see Ammonia or Nitrite in your testing, then there isn't enough bacteria yet and you need to wait longer.

[Bearkat1234]

so do not add anymore ammonia, but keep ghost feeding, that's what you are saying?

[Bearkat1234]

I don't just wait for nitrite to go down?

[jminick2]

u r getting way too much info here.....I have no idea why ppl are telling you to add food. If you add food the bacteria are going to keep converting to nitrites and then nitrates. They have already accomplished this part of the cycle for the most part based on your test results at this point you are wanting your nitrites to come down, by adding food you are essentially adding more nitrites to the cycle this is why you do not want to add any food.

Your cycle is clearly under way otherwise it would be impossible for you to have nitrites. Just sit and wait till you nitrites are gone. that's all you need to do at this point. Your nitrifying bacteria do not need fed right now. Just wait that's it.

[FraggledRock]

Originally Posted by Bearkat1234

so do not add anymore ammonia, but keep ghost feeding, that's what you are saying?

yes

[g0rilla]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

your lfs does not know what they are talking about. You have not contaminated anything. They probably wanted to sell you a damsel or two for the cycle or some bacteria in a bottle.

+1

[Bearkat1234]

ok I will sit and wait it out.

thanks everyone.

[jminick2]

Originally Posted by FraggledRock

yes

you are telling him not to add ammonia but to add food its one in the same? what is the point? why are you telling him to prolong his cycle?

[FraggledRock]

Originally Posted by jminick2

you are telling him not to add ammonia but to add food its one in the same? what is the point? why are you telling him to prolong his cycle?

ghost feeding a tank is not the same as dosing pure ammonia.

feeding a tank will not prolong a cycle.

[jminick2]

Originally Posted by FraggledRock

ghost feeding a tank is not the same as dosing pure ammonia.

feeding a tank will not prolong a cycle.

you do realize food produces ammonia right? So essentially it is the same.


What is the point of ghost feeding at this point? The bacteria is not going anywhere is take several months for it to starve out.

The nitrifying bacteria have already converted the initial amount ammonia he already added. Why do you want it to keep adding all you are doing is producing MORE nitrites and MORE nitrates. Which absolutely prolongs the cycle whether its by an hour or a day it does.

At this point in the cycle ALL he has to do is wait for the nitrites to come down to 0.

[FraggledRock]

Originally Posted by jminick2

you do realize food produces ammonia right? So essentially it is the same.


What is the point of ghost feeding at this point? The bacteria is not going anywhere is take several months for it to starve out.

The nitrifying bacteria have already converted the initial amount ammonia he already added. Why do you want it to keep adding all you are doing is producing MORE nitrites and MORE nitrates. Which absolutely prolongs the cycle whether its by an hour or a day it does.

At this point in the cycle ALL he has to do is wait for the nitrites to come down to 0.

you need to keep a continuous source of nutrients for the bacteria to stay alive.

if you stop feeding and let the bacteria die, you will cause a possible situation where he will need to restart a cycle.

yes if he stops feeding he will undoubtedly get to a point of 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites and all nitrates.

but then bacteria will begin to die off.. cause ammonia spikes without a way for the ammonia to be consumed without restarting a cycle.

plus it "trains" the new tank owner how to maintain a healthy tank with the basics of feeding schedules and maintenance.

for inexperienced reef or aquarium owners thats a first step in gaining experience.

telling him to stop assessing tank health daily will cause a "bad husbandry" habit of neglect.

where we need to all practice the best possible "husbandry" we can for successful reef tanks in our homes.

and this all starts from day 1.

[jminick2]

Originally Posted by FraggledRock

you need to keep a continuous source of nutrients for the bacteria to stay alive.

if you stop feeding and let the bacteria die, you will cause a possible situation where he will need to restart a cycle.

yes if he stops feeding he will undoubtedly get to a point of 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites and all nitrates.

but then bacteria will begin to die off.. cause ammonia spikes without a way for the ammonia to be consumed without restarting a cycle.

It takes many months for bacteria to die off there have been studies where bacteria has lasted over a year with out any source of ammonia.

So as I said you DO NOT need to waste fish food feeding bacteria at this point. you bacteria is not going anywhere. You are in fact prolonging your cycle.

[FraggledRock]

Originally Posted by jminick2

It takes many months for bacteria to die off there have been studies where bacteria has lasted over a year with out any source of ammonia.

So as I said you DO NOT need to waste fish food feeding bacteria at this point. you bacteria is not going anywhere. You are in fact prolonging your cycle.

with that logic, once fish are in the tank, the cycle is prolonged?

this is not a situation of arguing technicalities, someone is asking advice for getting their tank going in the right direction,

he doesn't need to know the taxonomy of bacteria.

also if you're worried about wasting a bit of fish food then you're overlooking the other more expensive stuff.

you're also missing the point of developing husbandry habits.

[jminick2]

Originally Posted by FraggledRock

with that logic, once fish are in the tank, the cycle is prolonged?

WHAT? once the cycle is complete (ammonia 0 nitrites 0) which is when you add fish......There is no cycle, the nitrifying bacteria are established. They do their "thing" to support your bioload, IF added slowly.

NOW that being said if you were to cycle a tank with lets say 1ppm ammonia and that's as high as it went. Then you threw a giant bioload all at once YES your cycle is essentially prolonged or it will restart because your ESTABLISHED bacteria couldn't handle the bioload.

[FraggledRock]

Originally Posted by jminick2

WHAT? once the cycle is complete (ammonia 0 nitrites 0) which is when you add fish......There is no cycle, the nitrifying bacteria are established. They do their "thing" to support your bioload, IF added slowly.

NOW that being said if you were to cycle a tank with lets say 1ppm ammonia and that's as high as it went. Then you threw a giant bioload all at once YES your cycle is essentially prolonged or it will restart because your ESTABLISHED bacteria couldn't handle the bioload.

smh.

stop huffing and puffing and read from the top again and analyze my responses a bit deeper.

[jminick2]

I'm done arguing about it.

Listen, to the OP you can ghost feed if you want its just going to take longer. Or you can not, its gonna matter either way eventually your tank will cycle. I was just trying to save you a little time cause I know starting out you are excited to get things going.

[FraggledRock]

Originally Posted by jminick2

I'm done arguing about it.

Listen, to the OP you can ghost feed if you want its just going to take longer. Or you can not, its gonna matter either way eventually your tank will cycle. I was just trying to save you a little time cause I know starting out you are excited to get things going.

Do you work at the LFS he went to? lolol

[jminick2]

Originally Posted by FraggledRock

Do you work at the LFS he went to? lolol

hmm. I guess my information I contributed didn't make sense. I don't know how it couldn't of. Since we are going to start with the insults. I'll be on my way. Happy Reefing.

[FraggledRock]

Originally Posted by jminick2

hmm. I guess my information I contributed didn't make sense. I don't know how it couldn't of. Since we are going to start with the insults. I'll be on my way. Happy Reefing.

I am not insulting you , however, the info being given is still the same confusing information that the LFS told him, and everyone is saying they are wrong or rather not 100% right...

but you still feel the need to defend it after that...

I am up for healthy debate. you have to remember this is a somewhat public forum, so not everyone will have the same thing to say or agree on the same things.

[jminick2]

[QUOTE=Bearkat1234;23570493]ok, my LFS is confusing me!

at the 2 week mark, I dosed pure ammonia from Ace Hardware, no additives in the ammonia. 90% water, 10% ammonia hydroxide.

I during the 2nd week i had a ammonia spike around 2ppm. ammonia has went to 0 now on the 3rd week. Nitrite has spiked and nitrates are around 40ppm.

I have not seen an algae bloom yet!

My LFS told me I should have not used the Pure ammonia to kickstart the cycle...my lights have been off for the entire 3 weeks...they said i should turn my lights on 8-12hrs a day from here on out....they said i probably contaminated the water by adding the pure ammonia if i do not get an algae bloom with the lights being on from this point forward...and if I dont see a bloom I should probably drain the tank and put new saltwater in and start over. I have turned my heater now from 78deg to low 80's.

QUOTE]

Felt like an insult to me.

where did I say it was a bad idea to kick start a cycle?With pure ammonia that is great way to start a cycle.

[FraggledRock]

[QUOTE=jminick2;23572782]

Originally Posted by Bearkat1234

ok, my LFS is confusing me!

at the 2 week mark, I dosed pure ammonia from Ace Hardware, no additives in the ammonia. 90% water, 10% ammonia hydroxide.

I during the 2nd week i had a ammonia spike around 2ppm. ammonia has went to 0 now on the 3rd week. Nitrite has spiked and nitrates are around 40ppm.

I have not seen an algae bloom yet!

My LFS told me I should have not used the Pure ammonia to kickstart the cycle...my lights have been off for the entire 3 weeks...they said i should turn my lights on 8-12hrs a day from here on out....they said i probably contaminated the water by adding the pure ammonia if i do not get an algae bloom with the lights being on from this point forward...and if I dont see a bloom I should probably drain the tank and put new saltwater in and start over. I have turned my heater now from 78deg to low 80's.

QUOTE]

Felt like an insult to me.

where did I say it was a bad idea to kick start a cycle?With pure ammonia that is great way to start a cycle.

I am talking about how he doesn't need to add pure ammonia anymore. I mentioned to specifically use fish food.

I simply stated he /she could use fish food as a replacement source.

thats when you went for the throat lol

[jminick2]

If you would like I quote every post the OP has made.

No where does it say the local fish store told him he didn't need to keep adding food through out the cycle.

[FraggledRock]

Originally Posted by jminick2

If you would like I quote every post the OP has made.

No where does it say the local fish store told him he didn't need to keep adding food through out the cycle.

dude, you're all types of confused.

i recommend you back track a little bit.

you're starting to confuse the heck outta me lol

i'm talking about moving forward past his ammonia dosing.

look at the last post on page 1....

[tmz]

I think the snarky ad hominem comments are not helpful and unneccesary.
No need to insult people or the LFS with honest disagreement or an alternative perspective. It's a fine thing to challenge the information without making it personal.

For the OP, if your tank has zero ammonia for a week or more it's cycled . The ammonia oxidizing bacteria are using up the ammonia in the tank generated by the decay of organic matter including die off .
The amount of bacterial activity depends on the amount of nutrients they have available. So, it's not a bad idea to add food or even ammonia after the cyclr is complete to increase the processing limit of the bacteria if you plan to add a lot of fish at once. There may be a lag otherwise resulting in an ammonia spike after you add livestock.
There is a difference between food and ammonia. Food adds nitrogen, phosphate ,iron. potassium etc , nutrients bacteria need. With ammonia you just get the nitrogen and rely on the amounts of other nutrients in the tank. I prefer ghost feeding to ammonia for that reason.

Regarding the light issue, ammonia oxidizing bacteria don't need light. They are somewhat pototrophic. It is likely better to run without lights for at least the first few days,IMO.

[jminick2]

I cant make this anymore clear........

I said you do not need to ghost feed during a cycle AFTER the initial ammonia source has already been added.

You are saying that's what the local fish told him

Heres where it seems to be getting confusing for you......The OP has never stated anywhere that the local fish store has told him that he does not need to ghost feed once the initial ammonia source has been added (that's what I said see above).

HE has only said the local fish store said it was a bad idea to use pure ammonia as an initial ammonia source which is wrong it is a great idea to use pure ammonia (so to make things clear I DISAGREE with the LFS)

That's the best I can do for you.