Hey newbie !!! Stop and read this !!!

[JimSWreef]

Great post. I am new myself. Very new in fact. But I am doing a ton of research...my wife gives me crap for watching fish YouTube videos all day. I am a firm believer of "do it right, do it light, do it wrong, do it long." I ask a ton of questions and troll forums like crazy. I want to thank all the experienced reefers for taking the time to help out us newbies on the pole to do it the right way. I am on day one of my cycle and started my own YouTube channel if anyone is interested in following or commenting on my journey. It's james Crawshaw. Thanks again for the great post. It is inspiring.

Cheers

[CuzzA]

Originally Posted by JimSWreef

Great post. I am new myself. Very new in fact. But I am doing a ton of research...my wife gives me crap for watching fish YouTube videos all day. I am a firm believer of "do it right, do it light, do it wrong, do it long." I ask a ton of questions and troll forums like crazy. I want to thank all the experienced reefers for taking the time to help out us newbies on the pole to do it the right way. I am on day one of my cycle and started my own YouTube channel if anyone is interested in following or commenting on my journey. It's james Crawshaw. Thanks again for the great post. It is inspiring.

Cheers

Welcome Jim! Yes, do it right! Or at least try your best. Words to live your life by.

[Bruce51]

Love this post. I'm a noob to SW tanks. Haven't started one yet, still doing the research. Have around 50 pages of notes, lists, things to do and not to do, fish I want and others that I don't. Probably will be 6 more months of research before I even begin to put together a system. Have plenty of time. Patience is a virtue in this hobby.

[ZeeSparrow]

I'm a newbie to SW having kept a 55 gallon FW tank for ~10 years. When my husband and I discussed the possibility of starting up a reef tank, I started researching. It will be probably another month before I have all of the equipment I need to start setting up and in that time, I will continue to read, research and ask questions. I'm certain I will continue to do so for some time after... as long as I have a tank running.

I agree with this brutally honest post 100%. These 5 questions were ones I asked myself before I bought anything.

Originally Posted by CuzzA

There's some questions you need to ask yourself.

1) Do I have the money to partake in an expensive hobby like this?

Yes. I even went so far as to discuss it with my husband and make sure we both understood how much of our disposable income would be spent. And he encouraged me, and continues to do so, to make sure that I get what I NEED and don't try to save money, take shortcuts or make costly mistakes by being cheap. (Not that you can't DIY or find alternative ways to accomplish the same thing, but I don't have to do something JUST to save money. It's about doing the BEST thing for the animals.)

2) Do I have the time to commit to a hobby like this?

Yes. Our kids are grown and I have multiple hours available every day to do what needs to be done (be that reading, researching, planning, maintaining, fixing, water changes, feeding, cleaning, or just sitting and watching the tank---someday).

3) Am I willing to do the research required to start and maintain a ornamental marine system?

Yes. I love learning new things, and it seems that every new thing I learn about this hobby leads to more questions, more research, and more new things to learn! I love it!

4) Am I willing to learn from others and accept the information I have gathered?

Yes. I never understand why anyone would not be willing to do that. HOWEVER, I also recognize the need to "consider the source" and verify the information I am provided with more research. Otherwise, I would believe everything I read on the internet and heard from my LFS, which would lead to complete and utter confusion.

5) Last but not least. Do I understand the consequences of my actions in this hobby?

Yes. My dogs, cat and current fish (FW tank) are my responsibility, just as much as my children when they were growing up (and sometimes still are). I look forward to growing my family with SW fish, inverts and corals... slowly, cautiously, with plenty of research and patience.

When I have questions, because I know I will, I will research more. Sometimes that research will include posting on here, asking questions of all of you more experienced folks, to help me succeed at caring for my new family, calming my nerves, reminding me to have patience and boosting my confidence.

[CuzzA]

Originally Posted by Bruce51

Love this post. I'm a noob to SW tanks. Haven't started one yet, still doing the research. Have around 50 pages of notes, lists, things to do and not to do, fish I want and others that I don't. Probably will be 6 more months of research before I even begin to put together a system. Have plenty of time. Patience is a virtue in this hobby.

Bruce, that is the key to success! There is so much information and it's hard to take it all in. Taking notes and bookmarking is a big help. I found once I felt confident enough to start building my system I would go back and read the information I saved. And because I learned more since the first time reading it, it made a lot more sense the second time around.

Plus you are just flat out prepared. For example, I cataloged every hitchhiker out there and classified them as good and bad. Most of the time I knew what it was, but when I didn't I had the info right there for quick access. Which is great when you need to act fast to get something out of your tank.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll have great success.

[CHSUB]

Many of your points are discussed in Tony Vargas’ book, “The Coral Reef Aquarium. However, your deliver is poor at best. This is a hobby and it is intended to be fun; your diatribe about money comes across as elitist and the thread as a whole is very negitive. (i.e. if you’re not rich, do something else!!!) Housing marine life is serious and should not be taken lightly, but lets not be hypocritical; what is best for these animals is leaving them in the oceans. If I were a newbie reading this thread, I would think this is a great hobby, but the people in it are not so great.

[CuzzA]

Originally Posted by ZeeSparrow

4) Am I willing to learn from others and accept the information I have gathered?

Yes. I never understand why anyone would not be willing to do that. HOWEVER, I also recognize the need to "consider the source" and verify the information I am provided with more research. Otherwise, I would believe everything I read on the internet and heard from my LFS, which would lead to complete and utter confusion.

Zee, this is very true. Whenever I got answers to questions I would always trust, yet verify.

[CuzzA]

Originally Posted by CHSUB

Many of your points are discussed in Tony Vargas’ book, “The Coral Reef Aquarium. However, your deliver is poor at best. This is a hobby and it is intended to be fun; your diatribe about money comes across as elitist and the thread as a whole is very negitive. (i.e. if you’re not rich, do something else!!!) Housing marine life is serious and should not be taken lightly, but lets not be hypocritical; what is best for these animals is leaving them in the oceans. If I were a newbie reading this thread, I would think this is a great hobby, but the people in it are not so great.

CHSUB, I'm sorry you feel that way. I think the response of some of the posters here contradicts your assessment of my post. Recall the first thing I said was "brutally honest". I've engaged in "The New to the Hobby" forum for over 2 years. (One year before I became a member here at RC). And I've read countless threads of unnecessary death of marine life due to the lack of understanding of the marine environment. Most recently, I've found an utter disregard for the advice being given on here. Which I find frustrating.

Absolutely, this is a fun hobby. For the most part the people are fun. But you made my point for me. "Housing marine life is serious and should not be taken lightly." If that were the case why do we see so many "all my fish died" threads? Ask yourself this, "Maybe his approach will put a sense of urgency into taking this hobby seriously." Furthermore, I do not like the term hobby. It's really not a hobby. Is owning a dog a hobby? No. Neither is owning fish. I expect my hippo tang to live another 20 years. He is my pet. Plain and simple.

As far as the money, my intentions were not to come across as elitist. It's just a fact about being in this hobby, err... owing these pets. It is what it is. I would love to be in the yachting hobby too, but guess what? I recognize I can't afford a yacht.

[mmittlesteadt]

My feelings about this are pretty strong. I value ALL life, even that of a little snail. I don't think of anything alive as disposable. If coming across as negative or elitist (on a reef forum on the internet) can turn someone off this hobby, then they were never that into it to begin with.

I'm not too interested sparing someone's feelings at the expense of a creature's life. Perception being what it is, if someone kept a pet dog for the first time, they would be a "newbie". Letting countless numbers of dogs die while learning how to care for one would be considered an outrage. But a snail? A crab? Who cares, right? Where is that line drawn in the ocean sand?

I see posts about CUC's as if they are just there to do the dirty work until something worthwhile comes along and then if they kick the bucket, well...no loss, just get more. If I put even a snail in my tank, I want to know everything about it's needs, lifespan, enemies, food source and do my best to ensure it thrives in my tank. That snail is fascinating enough to warrant my attention and diligence.

But that's me. I agree entirely with the OP (even the presentation).

[richieii]

I second a lot of what CHSUB said. Education is essential, remember everyone started out as a newbie. Ive seen this hobby evolve from cycling a tank with damsels to adding ammonia. Without newbies our hobby would fold very quickly. I get your point but find it offensive.

[Scoted]

As a new tank owner I see all sides of this issue. One problem I see is that between posts and searching old posts it is rather difficult to know the experience level of the people responding. For example CuzzA has a join date of 2014 as compared to someone else with a join date of 2006. If you search Qt here you will run across threads that say more fish die in the Qt process than from ick. Things have changed since my last SW tank 10 years ago. From also reading threads I can see your angst and over all I strongly agree with your post. Just my 2 cents

[CuzzA]

Originally Posted by richieii

I second a lot of what CHSUB said. Education is essential, remember everyone started out as a newbie. Ive seen this hobby evolve from cycling a tank with damsels to adding ammonia. Without newbies our hobby would fold very quickly. I get your point but find it offensive.

richieii, I'm sorry you took offense. However, you're twisting my post. I'm not suggesting people shouldn't become new owners of these pets.

Have you asked yourself what some other people think about owning these animals. How about a popular TV show and organization that you probably support, yet unknowingly to you they are against everything about us. While you're researching about your new tank, do a little research about those who want to see it end. I think you'll find the questions I posed in this thread are the very reasons why some people want to see owning these animals come to an end.

[cakemanPA]

I do agree with most of what you are saying by the way. Whether you care or not, the sanctimonious tone (and yes tone can be intended and delivered online) is a major negative. I don't think your intended audience will read long enough to learn. The more flies with honey technique is more useful imo if you are really trying to teach as opposed to preach.

[CuzzA]

Originally Posted by Scoted

As a new tank owner I see all sides of this issue. One problem I see is that between posts and searching old posts it is rather difficult to know the experience level of the people responding. For example CuzzA has a join date of 2014 as compared to someone else with a join date of 2006. If you search Qt here you will run across threads that say more fish die in the Qt process than from ick. Things have changed since my last SW tank 10 years ago. From also reading threads I can see your angst and over all I strongly agree with your post. Just my 2 cents

Indeed Scoted. Unfortunately, post counts or join dates don't guarantee you're getting the best information. I've read posts from 5 year members and flat out knew they were wrong. Conversely, I've read new members posts and thought, wow, this guy knows what he's talking about.

And due to the nature of reef keeping there are a lot of different ways to get to to where you want to be. And every single tank is different, both chemically and biologically. So, while some things work for some people, it may not work for you. Often times you'll see the term "Best Practices". And qting all new arrivals, IMO, is a best practice. If done properly you can have minimal loses in qt.

Thanks for the support.

[rlm2005]

Originally Posted by cakemanpa

i do agree with most of what you are saying by the way. Whether you care or not, the sanctimonious tone (and yes tone can be intended and delivered online) is a major negative. I don't think your intended audience will read long enough to learn. The more flies with honey technique is more useful imo if you are really trying to teach as opposed to preach.

+1

[OrQidz]

Definitely a rant but I have to agree 100% with you!

I don't think newbies should get jumped on necessarily, but if they are argumentative and offended with the information they receive they need to adjust their attitude.

It's human nature to be doing things "right" so it can be hard to hear that you've made a poor decision. But face up to it and make it right.

[CuzzA]

I'll just add, I'm not trying to insult anyone personally. I'm not talking to anyone directly. I want everyone to be successful. The more we succeed, the more we are aquaculturing, the more we can share information and the more we can share these animals and take pressure off the reefs.

And I'm definitely not encouraging jumping on a newbie. Just "ranting" that "some" newbies need to understand the big picture.

[gone fishin]

I agree with what you have said Cuzza.

Quite awhile ago I would respond to people and tell them to look at the top of the forum for the "set up" Sticky it will answer your question and more. A few more posts about the same thing. It must be to hard to find the sticky.

I start linking the sticky in the reply surely this will help. More posts I need help here.

I think well there is a lot of "stuff" in that sticky. So I link the specific topic surely that will do the trick. More posts of help needed.

Now I think surely they have read the link. I reply what part of the sticky link did you not understand. The response, I don't have time to read that I got problems help me.

At that point I cut my time loss and move on.

[bundybear1981]

IMO one thing you have overlooked is a lot of people start off solely relying on advise from their LFS. I did when I first started, from a smaller less experienced store (they are no longer in business)

It was some time in before I got on to this forum. When I wanted to go further than I was getting success at this time. I think many people are in the same situation, they come looking after they have already started. This post I feel belittles them (no offence)

Yes, it does contain good advise. But for someone who has come here after issues it may intimidate them from seeking help. Those who don't care about losing the fish won't take the time to come here and find out where they went wrong. They would just keep replacing their fish.

Do you need a huge budget with mass spare cash? No, not at all. You can run these tanks on a shoestring budget, depending on how you are stocked. For me on salt and food it costs about $20 a month to run my tanks. That's less then I spend on dog food in a month.

[CuzzA]

Perhaps, but in the age of the Internet I'd like to believe the first place people go for information is the web. When I started to entertain having a marine system the first thing I did was Google "Saltwater Aquarium". Guess what I found? And here I am, on RC and a member of the Tampa Bay Reef Club.

[mmittlesteadt]

Originally Posted by CuzzA

Perhaps, but in the age of the Internet I'd like to believe the first place people go for information is the web. When I started to entertain having a marine system the first thing I did was Google "Saltwater Aquarium". Guess what I found? And here I am, on RC and a member of the Tampa Bay Reef Club.

Books are so old school. LOL. I'm 54 and I lived at the library when I was younger, or bought books and magazines or got subscriptions. Thank God for the internet!

[CuzzA]

Originally Posted by gone fishin

I agree with what you have said Cuzza.

Quite awhile ago I would respond to people and tell them to look at the top of the forum for the "set up" Sticky it will answer your question and more. A few more posts about the same thing. It must be to hard to find the sticky.

I start linking the sticky in the reply surely this will help. More posts I need help here.

I think well there is a lot of "stuff" in that sticky. So I link the specific topic surely that will do the trick. More posts of help needed.

Now I think surely they have read the link. I reply what part of the sticky link did you not understand. The response, I don't have time to read that I got problems help me.

At that point I cut my time loss and move on.

I hear ya. And I know you are always trying to help people out. I'm always looking for that unanswered thread just to help. Sometimes it feels like a slap in the face. Is it the self entitlement brat syndrome carrying over to fish forums? The mentality you owe me something? I don't know. But like you said, "at some point you just have to move on".

[Salty Cracker]

I have owned saltwater fish only tanks for years. When I went down with a stroke that left me unable to work I needed a hobby. I always loved reef tanks. I said what the hell and did some research. I was a victim of petco. I bought my liverock from an online dealer. Had a crappy skimmer from amazon, a hob filter, two weak powerheads, and T5 lights. I agree you really need a ton of research! Through this forum and books I now have to of the line equipment, and have learned a ton. My wife tells me I treat my tank better than or two little girls. I enjoy going to my LFS with my four year old, she know as much as I do. We both spend hours just watching the tank and learning.

[mmn]

If I waited until I was reasonably sure I knew enough to to choose and care for live things in my aquarium it would probably be at least 18 months before I did it. Which is about where I'm at!

And before anything live goes in there will be a god parent who is both able and committed to take care of things in the event that I become unable to.

[stingeragent]

To the op and the deterrents. I 100% agree with the op's points. I'm new to marine keeping myself (year and half or so), I think your points were blunt and to the point as you stated they were going to be from the beginning. I wouldn't consider anyone that keeps marine life an elitist, but you can't go into this hobby with the mindset that you had maintaining a gold fish tank. Whether your rich or poor is irrelevant. There are necessities to keep marine life alive and I'm glad you pointed it all out. There are far too many threads of please help why did my blue tang in my 10 gallon tank just die. I think its important for everyone to realize that patience is key. There are a lot of threads also saying, ok I'm 1 day into my cycle , whats wrong with this parameter and that. I am an impatient person myself, and have definitely rushed things in this hobby, and I try daily to learn from my mistakes. Sometimes you just gotta sit back and let it ride.

Edit: I'm not opposed to the I'm on day 1 of new cycle threads, as I understand many are just excited and looking for input. Overall, I'm just glad the OP told it like it is. Sometimes that's how it needs to be. I put a yellow tang in my first ever saltwater tank (a 20 long), and after posting pics of it on here, I got much backlash which drove me to return it to the LFS.