Reasons for using an Apex

[shred5]

Apex light is still based on the newer system so it is not old.. I am not sure why they stopped making it.. Was a good deal...

[fixerupper]

Welcome to the Dark Side Ron.

But fear not, you can turn the lights on remotely with your Apex.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by shred5

Apex light is still based on the newer system so it is not old.. I am not sure why they stopped making it.. Was a good deal...

When I said it is old, I didn't mean old as in 'out of date' old, I meant old as in it was put into service in 2008.

[vhuang168]

Make sure the long usb cable you get does not have a repeater/signal booster. Also be aware there is a 200ft total length limit on aquabus cable.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

Make sure the long usb cable you get does not have a repeater/signal booster. Also be aware there is a 200ft total length limit on aquabus cable.

Thanks for the info. I'm just looking at about 50' for both the USB and 75' for the Ethernet cable.

[slief]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

Thanks for the info. I'm just looking at about 50' for both the USB and 75' for the Ethernet cable.

Welcome to the Apex club.

For the long Apex cables, this is a great source. I have on of their 50' cables in my setup running out to an EB8 in the garage. What you need is a Male USB-A to Male USB-A cable. This place sells them in a number of very long lengths for a reasonable price and they work like a charm.
http://www.usbfirewire.com/parts/rr-apex-xx.html

This is another company. They make custom lengths. A bit cheaper than the above source but I have used cables from the above company so I know their quality.
https://www.independentcommerce.com/...&Netscape=TRUE

You can also get a USB extension and just use electric tape to cover the connection between the extension and the aquabus cable. While it will work fine, I much prefer a pre made long cable vs using extensions. As mentioned above, they can't be active or have repeaters. They need to be something like this one here but this is only 25':

http://www.amazon.com/25FT-female-ex...sb+50+ft+cable

[slief]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

Make sure the long usb cable you get does not have a repeater/signal booster. Also be aware there is a 200ft total length limit on aquabus cable.

Yep.. But that 200' total length is the aggregate of all aquabus device cables in the system according to the spec. I have to question though unless all aquabus ports are passive meaning the EB8's don't supply any power to the Aquabus. Also, on a full Apex, I think the max number of modules is in excess of 200 which flies right in the face of the 200' aquabus aggregate limit.

[erndog1001]

Originally Posted by slief

Yep.. But that 200' total length is the aggregate of all aquabus device cables in the system according to the spec. I have to question though unless all aquabus ports are passive meaning the EB8's don't supply any power to the Aquabus. Also, on a full Apex, I think the max number of modules is in excess of 200 which flies right in the face of the 200' aquabus aggregate limit.

It sure does. Bc I know for a fact that I have 200' plus and all my stuff is working fine.

[slief]

Originally Posted by erndog1001

It sure does. Bc I know for a fact that I have 200' plus and all my stuff is working fine.

That is good to know. I know Neptune doesn't suggest exceeding 200' total between all Aquabus modules but as I said, I have to question how finite that number is given their support for an excess of 200 modules. Like you, I am probably pushing 200' myself.

I have one 50' cable and a total of 5 EB8's, 3 EB4's, 2 VDM's, 1 PM1, 1 PM2, 3 Lunar Sims, 1 AFS, 1 DOS, 1 ALD and I forget what else. I am however pretty sure that's over 200' of cable in my system.

[erndog1001]

Originally Posted by david.faik

I simply have doubts over the robustness of niche software. When the system controller has a software update that fails, then your whole tank is stuffed. I'm not specifically talking Apex but in general. Also most appear to need some software coding to set up, so wonder how many users make an error in their complex set up instructions?

Its just like any other kind of software update. You back up your your config files before you attempt the update. If something goes wrong You simply fall back on the old settings.
But I've been through many updates since I put my Apex in service. And while they sometimes take a few tries to get done. Never has one failed completely.
As for coding. Again. just like any other kind of coding. You have to follow certain rules and if you don't Your coding is not accepted. Its true you can make a mistake that does get through. But it would have to be a real doozy of a mistake to put your whole system at risk.

[MidwesternTexan]

Too funny, I'm not even going to post my thoughts.

Over automate EVERTHING, then fell so good b/c your exspensive controller notified you,
or your overautomation having weak points and needing attention.
Oooh, but for X $, you can turn you lights on remotely!

I don't have one, most likely never will.

[btb72]

I'm a commercial pilot so I'm gone for 5-6 days a couple times a month so having automation and failsafes are required for me. So I can't wait to get my Alex up and running

[ca1ore]

I tend to think of my apex as providing convenience more than safety. It's a single point fo failure, so while it may appear to head off ATO problems or heater malfunctions, in the long run I think it's a push. It is, however, enormously convenient. Once you get the hang of the programming language, it's a snap to have redundant float switches, staggered heating, etc. I have a bad habit of forgetting to refill my ATO reservoir because it's squirreled away under a shelf. Add a low reading float and presto, never forget anymore.

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by MidwesternTexan

Too funny, I'm not even going to post my thoughts.

Over automate EVERTHING, then fell so good b/c your exspensive controller notified you,
or your overautomation having weak points and needing attention.
Oooh, but for X $, you can turn you lights on remotely!

I don't have one, most likely never will.

Different folks, different strokes. Some people like to drive stick, some like an automatic n some even like being chauffeured around. No right no wrong.

If you enjoy working on your tank,
making sure you have enough rodi without overflowing your container,
making sure that there is nothing stuck in your return pump causing your sump to slowly overflow,
making sure that your ATO reservoir has enough rodi,
or maybe you really like no automation and have your rodi gravity fed,
making sure a snail hasn't made its way smack in the exact position that will keep your float valve open thus flooding your sump, then flooding your stand, then your floor.

And that's just with float valves, and a breakout box and if you get fancy, an EB8 and some solenoids.

But as long as you enjoy what you do, nothing stopping you from NOT buying and using a controller.

[sleepydoc]

Originally Posted by ca1ore

I tend to think of my apex as providing convenience more than safety. It's a single point fo failure, so while it may appear to head off ATO problems or heater malfunctions, in the long run I think it's a push. It is, however, enormously convenient. Once you get the hang of the programming language, it's a snap to have redundant float switches, staggered heating, etc. I have a bad habit of forgetting to refill my ATO reservoir because it's squirreled away under a shelf. Add a low reading float and presto, never forget anymore.

+1
I don't have one but am strongly considering getting one. When it comes down to it, there is virtually nothing an Apex does that you can't personally do yourself, or do with separate modules. What it does do is consolidate and automate these tasks and free you up to do other things.

If you can check on your tank several times a day, then you can check on all the things that Apex would, and the electronic notification capabilities are moot because you're already there. For many people, their life does not allow this level of attention and the controller becomes an invaluable 'helper' to keep an eye on things. My job and family life are such that many days I barely have time to feed my fish. An extra set of eyes or the ability to check on things remotely when I'm away would be very handy.

As ca1ore said, I think that the safety argument probably ends up being a wash. It provides continuous monitoring and notification and can be programmed to react to conditions. The sensors can also be made to be redundant, but ultimately there is a single point of failure at the controller. That said cases of the Apex failing seem to be quite rare, and many of our systems have multiple single points of failure if we look hard enough, so I think at worst you're breaking even, but likely end up being safer that without one.

[Ron Reefman]

slief, thanks for the links, I appreciate the help. I'm not going to rush into setting this up. I've been doing it all manually for 4 tanks for over 5 years now and 2 tanks for 5 years before that. And now that I'm retired, I have even less time to do stuff... huh? I literally have less free time now than I did when I worked full time (self employed). But now all the things taking up my time are voluntary and tend to be for fun.

I know I wouldn't have bought an Apex if I had to pay full retail. I probably wouldn't even have bought a used one at the going cost for used units. But this was virtually a gift from a good friend who got it from a friend of his who got out of the hobby with a lot of high end equipment and sold it all dirt cheap. I could certainly afford to buy one if I saw a big need, but I'm still not sold on it being anywhere close to worth what they cost. To me, this is like my Miata sports car that I auto-cross and do track days with; it's a toy that I hope to enjoy playing with.

As I get it set up and I start to really put it to use I'll add more comments here.

[sleepydoc]

With all your newfound interests sucking up your time, perhaps the controller will be worthwhile!

I look forward to your impressions - I think you will have a good perspective for comparison.

[sleepydoc]

So on the topic of 'is a controller necessary,' I just saw this video about the Long Island Aquarium & Exhibition Center's 20,000 gallon reef system maintained by Joe Yaiullo. about ⅔ of the way through they talk about controllers and how until recently he didn't use a controller at all, and is currently only using a controller for some monitoring purposes.