Making Clowns Host With Anemone?

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by BronzeFrog

I have two young ocellaris clowns who have been been made welcome by my magnifica anemone. The nem was on the move around the tank for a week but is now happy in a spot at the front with a darker area he can 'retreat' to.

You sure it's a mag? None of mine ever 'retreated' into the shadows - they always moved to the highest, most well lit point in the tank.

[BronzeFrog]

Yeah I double checked with my LFS. He is out in the light most of the time but will spend say an hour or so in the live rock 'cave' (it's not really a cave but an area that is somewhat sheltered from both flow and light). The Nem seems to be really happy with this. The clowns are extremely happy with this.

I really don't have any reason to think anything untoward because all the params are spot on, both nem and fish appear healthy and vibrant. Although it could be that the LFS where I got the nem did have him under more subdued lighting than what is in my tank.

[scrumpto]

I'm going to disagree with some of the advice here and suggest a method I've used with many different A.O. Clowns and many different BTA's. The reason I advocate for encouraging the pairing of the anemones and clowns is the safety of the clownfish. Quite simply, I've noticed my unpaired clowns getting sucked into powerheads while sleeping near them (years ago), being picked on by other fish without the safety of the anemone and not exhibiting normal behavior. These are simply my experiences and thus, my opinion -- others will disagree based on their experiences.

I figured out how to pair the two by accident. I was attempting to catch one of my unpaired clowns in a net. To avoid the net, the clown eventually swam into the safety of the anemone. Smart fish! Her mate followed the next day. These were not wild caught clowns so they'd most likely never seen an anemone but instinct took over.

I could go on but you get the point. Your fish, your tank, your call. Enjoy!

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by scrumpto

I'm going to disagree with some of the advice here and suggest a method I've used with many different A.O. Clowns and many different BTA's. The reason I advocate for encouraging the pairing of the anemones and clowns is the safety of the clownfish. Quite simply, I've noticed my unpaired clowns getting sucked into powerheads while sleeping near them (years ago), being picked on by other fish without the safety of the anemone and not exhibiting normal behavior. These are simply my experiences and thus, my opinion -- others will disagree based on their experiences.

I figured out how to pair the two by accident. I was attempting to catch one of my unpaired clowns in a net. To avoid the net, the clown eventually swam into the safety of the anemone. Smart fish! Her mate followed the next day. These were not wild caught clowns so they'd most likely never seen an anemone but instinct took over.

I could go on but you get the point. Your fish, your tank, your call. Enjoy!

Although I disagree,


To Reef Central

[scrumpto]

Originally Posted by snorvich

Although I disagree,


To Reef Central

Thanks! Not really new. I was a member so long ago though that I don't even remember my old username. Has to have been a decade ago at least. I've been in the hobby 18 years now but your polite "welcome" is much appreciated anyway!

[ca1ore]

Originally Posted by BronzeFrog

Yeah I double checked with my LFS.

Probably not the last word in accurate animal ID

Can you share a picture of your anemone?

[davocean]

[QUOTE=CStrickland;244593 but it's def not as bad as i thought[/QUOTE]

It was not bad THAT TIME, and this is one of those things that adds confusion, sometimes it's ok, sometimes not.
try doing this in a hadonni w/ a non natural match and the results may be disappointing, or other species the clown has not had a chance to adapt to sting cells.

Instead of forcing things to happen, I think a much better solution and the real step forward in keeping of nems and clowns is providing a natural match as to what would be found in the wild, not just, oh I like the color of this anemone, and the color of those clowns, now I'm going to cram them together and make it work.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by davocean

It was not bad THAT TIME, and this is one of those things that adds confusion, sometimes it's ok, sometimes not.
try doing this in a hadonni w/ a non natural match and the results may be disappointing, or other species the clown has not had a chance to adapt to sting cells.

Instead of forcing things to happen, I think a much better solution and the real step forward in keeping of nems and clowns is providing a natural match as to what would be found in the wild, not just, oh I like the color of this anemone, and the color of those clowns, now I'm going to cram them together and make it work.

What he said.

[CStrickland]

Originally Posted by davocean

try doing this in a hadonni w/ a non natural match

Op doesn't have a hadonni tho. This thread is about a bta and an ocellaris, aren't those natural matches?

[champion6sigma]

Originally Posted by Grey Legion

I thought this video was interesting, unsure if it is a practical solution vs just giving them time..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7pGnlGdP-E

That's how I was told to do it. Or just simple pvc.

+1

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[davocean]

Originally Posted by CStrickland

Op doesn't have a hadonni tho. This thread is about a bta and an ocellaris, aren't those natural matches?

I'm making the point on forcing any clown into any nonnatural match nem which some of those video's are showing.
Some of those people doing those youtube vids are claiming you need to do this for tank bred clowns claiming they don't have the host accepting instinct, which I think is ridiculous, it would take many generations of breeding to remove animals basic instincts.

Most of the people here that focus on nems and clowns especially on that forum believe that BTA's are not natural for occs or percs and that part of the list may need a correction or update

My mentioning of the hadonni was an example at how different each nem is from one another, and it has a stronger sting and stickier tentacles than other host nems, and being the most likely situation of seeing negative results in forcing together.

[champion6sigma]

Some clowns never do host regardless if they do or do not have instinct . People's frustrations and desires and complaints of not hosting are solid proof of that.

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[champion6sigma]

Babies know how to suck on mom to get food . . . . you still need to place them on the mammary gland for them to eat....

Not sure if perfect analogy.... But it gets point across that maybe the fish needs a little help or nudge ...


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[davocean]

Originally Posted by champion6sigma

Some clowns never do host regardless if they do or do not have instinct . People's frustrations and desires and complaints of not hosting are solid proof of that.

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Actually no clown hosts.

If you spend some time in the nem forum you would see countless situations where a clown would not accept a non natural host, and then on intro of a natural host they will dive right in almost immediately.
The instinct is still very much there

[champion6sigma]

Ultimately a home aquarium is not a natural environment so to me some modifications may be in order ....im sure zoo owners deal with there own form of human manipulation or assistance or intervention to help out zoo animals thrive in captivity ....on a daily basis. I think all of us would agree, that a hosting anemone and clown are happier once the bond is formed....

Just my beliefs , opinions .

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[champion6sigma]

Originally Posted by davocean

Actually no clown hosts.

If you spend some time in the nem forum you would see countless situations where a clown would not accept a non natural host, and then on intro of a natural host they will dive right in almost immediately.
The instinct is still very much there

I'm not arguing over what anyone should try to pair . . . I have no knowledge to make a recommendation.... Im only arguing that I agree with the clear tube or pvc method to help out a clown that is unwilling to try out an anemone ....whatever one the poster had or doesn't have ...

I'm pro intervention

I've personally seen clowns never go to an anemone.

That's all I was trying to say.

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[davocean]

I'm sure zoo owners do their very best to provide what would be more natural to each animal, so that is what I am suggesting here, for best possible results try to provide what would be natural for the animals you keep.

[champion6sigma]

Just replace my use of host with bond . . . if me saying clown hosting is taboo

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[davocean]

Originally Posted by champion6sigma

I'm pro intervention

I've personally seen clowns never go to an anemone.

And all I'm trying to do is explain to you why that is.

[CStrickland]

Originally Posted by davocean

I'm making the point on forcing any clown into any nonnatural match nem which some of those video's are showing.
Some of those people doing those youtube vids are claiming you need to do this for tank bred clowns claiming they don't have the host accepting instinct, which I think is ridiculous, it would take many generations of breeding to remove animals basic instincts.

Most of the people here that focus on nems and clowns especially on that forum believe that BTA's are not natural for occs or percs and that part of the list may need a correction or update

My mentioning of the hadonni was an example at how different each nem is from one another, and it has a stronger sting and stickier tentacles than other host nems, and being the most likely situation of seeing negative results in forcing together.

yeah, I don't really disagree. I think we are on diff pages in the sense that I'm talking about *that vid* and you're speaking more generally. I wouldn't be surprised if there are vids that do stuff I would disagree strongly with, (especially the idea of an acclimation box where the clown can't really get very far from the nem) but the linked one isn't that. Same with the nem/clown, I'm talking about *this nem* and you're talking about other ones.

The reasons that you use for not forcing at all are the same ones that I would use for not expecting the same success in this vid to all nems and all clowns everywhere. But those clowns looked a lot happier once they got a little nudge into that nem, and they didn't look very stressed by the nudge.

[CStrickland]

Originally Posted by champion6sigma

Just replace my use of host with bond . . . if me saying clown hosting is taboo

That's just a thing people do, I don't know why. It reminds me of someone correcting a poster's grammar rather than focus on the points they are trying to make. I don't know very much about nems and clowns at all, but I fail to see what earthly difference it makes who does the "hosting." Don't let it get under your skin.

[rblackdvm]

I have two ocellaris clowns in a BTA. The older clown, I had for 8 months and never touched the BTA. I introduced a small snowflake clown that immediately dove into the BTA and the older clownfish followed shortly after they've been bonded ever since and no harm was done to the fish or nem with the immediate introduction.

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[Fache]

Does anyone think it would be easier to get them to bond if you are starting a new build and there is nothing else in the tank except some small peices of rock and sand?


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[davocean]

This is probably a topic better suited in the nem forum than new to hobby, but like many others when new to the hobby it was the symbiotic relationship between clowns and anemone's that drew me in, and since has been my main focus.
I'm just advocating understanding what helps achieve success in doing so.

It's like getting a bulldog and wondering why it does not fetch like a labrador, just different animals w/ different instincts.
And now I'm sure I'll hear someone w/ the best fetching bulldog ever!
And like that there will be exceptions to the rules here and there, but generally speaking it is not the clowns lack of instinct or "being dumb" as I see so many put it, it's really our own ignorance to their natural instincts and needs.

[ca1ore]

I think the best way to get a pair of clowns to accept a BTA is to plop a lion fish (quarantined, of course) into the tank. Eeeeeks .....