Neptune Apex. Worth it and your thoughts?

[Grayhead]

I control almost everything with my apex. It alerts me if my top off tank is low as we'll as the salt mix tank. I can remotely fill both tanks. The key to critical components is redundency. I have a tunze ato, but have it plugged into the apex power strip. At feed time, it shuts down the skimmer, ato, adjust the powerheads, and has everything set for delay start-ups. It's not that I can't do all this manually. But if I'm out of town, my wife or tank sitter can handle the tank without the worry for following a series of instructions. To me, the biggest concern I have is if something happens with my internet connection. I have to restart the router every so often. But even then, I have my apex hard-wired to the modem. Here is a brief list of things I do with my apex
2 salinity probes, one for tank and other for salt mix
3 DOS units one for awc and 2 for dosing cal, all, mag, and carbon. I use the containers that DOS recommends. It will remind me if one gets low
Controls all lighting to included custom programs for LEDs
Lunar lighting
Controls 3 seperate pumps for feeding the tank and media reacters
Skimmer, fuge lighting, temp x 2, pH, par, leak detection x 4, remote operation of rodi(all backed up with electronic as we'll as manual float switches)
Gyres and WAV powerheads running synchronized programming.
I will be purchasing a seperate head unit for the apex that will be fully programmed in the event something happens to my existing head unit.
I also like the aspect of the fusion programming. You can record all your parameters. Also look at the reading via grafts and overlay them for comparison. If my pH goes up, it knows to shut my all dosing off. I can see when that happens. Sure, there is alot of candy you can purchase with a controller, but if you have a complex set-up, it's almost needed. That's why they ake the controllers to be entry level all the way to extreme complexity. If I was more versed in the coding, I would have more features added to my system.

[CindyK]

Originally Posted by Grayhead

I control almost everything with my apex. It alerts me if my top off tank is low as we'll as the salt mix tank. I can remotely fill both tanks. The key to critical components is redundency. I have a tunze ato, but have it plugged into the apex power strip. At feed time, it shuts down the skimmer, ato, adjust the powerheads, and has everything set for delay start-ups. It's not that I can't do all this manually. But if I'm out of town, my wife or tank sitter can handle the tank without the worry for following a series of instructions. To me, the biggest concern I have is if something happens with my internet connection. I have to restart the router every so often. But even then, I have my apex hard-wired to the modem. Here is a brief list of things I do with my apex
2 salinity probes, one for tank and other for salt mix
3 DOS units one for awc and 2 for dosing cal, all, mag, and carbon. I use the containers that DOS recommends. It will remind me if one gets low
Controls all lighting to included custom programs for LEDs
Lunar lighting
Controls 3 seperate pumps for feeding the tank and media reacters
Skimmer, fuge lighting, temp x 2, pH, par, leak detection x 4, remote operation of rodi(all backed up with electronic as we'll as manual float switches)
Gyres and WAV powerheads running synchronized programming.
I will be purchasing a seperate head unit for the apex that will be fully programmed in the event something happens to my existing head unit.
I also like the aspect of the fusion programming. You can record all your parameters. Also look at the reading via grafts and overlay them for comparison. If my pH goes up, it knows to shut my all dosing off. I can see when that happens. Sure, there is alot of candy you can purchase with a controller, but if you have a complex set-up, it's almost needed. That's why they ake the controllers to be entry level all the way to extreme complexity. If I was more versed in the coding, I would have more features added to my system.

Thank you for listing all of the functions you use. If you don't the mind my asking, how many additional components (after the initial apex purchase) did you have to buy to do all of that?

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[Grayhead]

The apex classic comes with pH,temp,ed8. Each option comes as modules. The new models come with different modes included

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by CindyK

This is a great thread. I've considered pulling the plug on a controller also, and read multiple threads in which reefers swear by their controller but don't really say why, only that they wouldn't set up a tank without one. Can some of you please continue to explain what exactly you can do with your controller that you weren't previously doing with timers, etc, other than remote monitoring? (I get how getting an email at work would from your Apex if something is wrong would be extremely comforting).

I feel that many of the functions of a controller already exist on my tank and it makes me question whether the money is worth it. For example:



My vortechs are wireless, and they go into feed mode at the touch of a button - either I push a button on my apex or on my vortech, I'm standing right there feeding them so what's the difference? My temp is controlled by my heater setup. My ATO is controlled, well, by my ATO, I'm not sure what you do to "control" an ATO other than make sure the reservoir has water in it. Ditto the skimmer...what do you do to control it? It just runs. Most lights have a built in timer.

I'm not criticizing anyone who spends the money on a controller in any way - in fact it's the opposite. I'm trying to understand how it is value added when it seems that most of the benefits it provides are already intrinsic to the products we buy, and I would love for someone to help me understand because I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get email alerts if something goes out of whack while I'm away, but I can't justify spending $700 for that

One of the things I really liked about my Apex was how it controlled my Vortechs. Way more control over what you can do with the Vortechs.

[hkgar]

Just the ability for the Apex to monitor many of the parameters and take actions if something goes wrong and send me an email telling me what is out of wack. Temp, ph, SG, water leaks. I also have a reeftronics.net account so I get notified if the Apex is down for more than an hour.

[Ron Reefman]

I have one... in my closet. It was free and I still can't justify the time, let alone the expense (for other people) to set one up.

I think it's funny that an Apex can give me parameters I pay little or no attention to, like salinity, pH and temp. And to feed I have to push 3 or 4 buttons to turn off pumps and skimmer rather than just 1 with an Apex. Yeah, that's worth a $500 to $1000 investment.

After 12 years in the hobby I have most of the things an Apex can help with already covered. If it could give me Ca, alk and Mg parameters, it would be doing something great!

[homer1475]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

I think it's funny that an Apex can give me parameters I pay little or no attention to, like salinity, pH and temp. And to feed I have to push 3 or 4 buttons to turn off pumps and skimmer rather than just 1 with an Apex. Yeah, that's worth a $500 to $1000 investment.

So what happens when you forget to turn the pumps back on? I've done that more times then I can count, luckily I remembered a couple hours later.

I never thought I would use an apex either, until I got one. I would never do another tank without one. Mine does everthing from controlling my heaters(finnex titanium without its own thermostat), to ramping my lights, to controlling my vortechs and jeboas, to turning cabinet lights on and off when I open the doors. Along with various alarms and alerts, the ability to turn anything plugged into it off or on from anywhere in the world is invaluable in my eyes.

[gone fishin]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

I have one... in my closet. It was free and I still can't justify the time, let alone the expense (for other people) to set one up.

I think it's funny that an Apex can give me parameters I pay little or no attention to, like salinity, pH and temp. And to feed I have to push 3 or 4 buttons to turn off pumps and skimmer rather than just 1 with an Apex. Yeah, that's worth a $500 to $1000 investment.

After 12 years in the hobby I have most of the things an Apex can help with already covered. If it could give me Ca, alk and Mg parameters, it would be doing something great!

I agree with Ron, if it could tell me Ca, alk and Mg parameters I would be all over it.
My lights have their own controllers, once they were dialed in I have not adjusted them since. My Ranco temp controller has worked fine for many years, I just recently replaced the probe,$12. The gyres have there own controller once I found a setting I liked I have not touched it. Tunze ATO takes care of itself. Light timers for dosing pumps. I have not checked my pH in about 5 years and I check my salinity when I do WC's. If I am on Vacation I have a pretty capable tanksitter.

[whiteshark]

I couldn't live without it. I use it for Temp and pH monitoring (included), as an ATO, to separately control 4 T5's, as a heater controller, to monitor my tank via webcam, and to alert me if anything shuts down or something is out of whack. It's so incredibly convenient. I got mine lightly used for a good deal and would never go back to the days before I used it.

[ktownhero]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

I have one... in my closet. It was free and I still can't justify the time, let alone the expense (for other people) to set one up.

I think it's funny that an Apex can give me parameters I pay little or no attention to, like salinity, pH and temp. And to feed I have to push 3 or 4 buttons to turn off pumps and skimmer rather than just 1 with an Apex. Yeah, that's worth a $500 to $1000 investment.

After 12 years in the hobby I have most of the things an Apex can help with already covered. If it could give me Ca, alk and Mg parameters, it would be doing something great!

If all you think it is for are a few probe readings and a feed button, then it certainly has no place in your set up. But the fact that you either don't have a use for it, or don't care to find a use for it, doesn't make it something that you can just simply write-off for anyone and everyone.

And I'd be happy to take any Apex accessories (like an eb8!) you have in that closet laying around

[whiteshark]

Originally Posted by ktownhero

If all you think it is for are a few probe readings and a feed button, then it certainly has no place in your set up. But the fact that you either don't have a use for it, or don't care to find a use for it, doesn't make it something that you can just simply write-off for anyone and everyone.

It does seem tailored to the person that likes to tinker or DIY.

I generally build all my own light fixtures and like to have independent control of certain bulbs. No built in timers. To put each one on a timer would create an inconvenient pile of unreliable timers. Instead I can just plug them all into the Apex and set each bulb to turn on and off exactly when I want them to. I can also have the Apex turn them all off if the tank temperature gets too high.

Being able to manually turn things on and off remotely is quite convenient as well. If someone is home and hears a pump making an odd noise, I can shut it down myself via the Apex instead of hoping they pull the correct cord.

Can you live without an Apex? Sure. Do I think they are overpriced? Absolutely. Just like literally everything in this hobby. But if you can swing it, I definitely think it's worth it.

[Mike de Leon]

I have two XR30 G4 Radions and realized how nice it is to be able to control it. There seem to be so much more with lights than meets the eye. I can adjust this light for acclimatization, colour and so on.
I had a Maxspect razor that had a simple controller, not even close.
If I am able to do this with the rest of the equipment it would be worthwhile.

Only people who has them can truly attest to how well they work based on experience. Outsiders like me only speculate. But I will be pulling the trigger when the fund comes in! :O)

[MrsReefK]

I would never go without again. The fail safes relieve any anxiety of human error. Yes, there's still room for error on how you set it up, but well worth it. I am on the road a lot for work, not sure my tank would be as much of a success if I didn't have my apex.


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[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by ktownhero

If all you think it is for are a few probe readings and a feed button, then it certainly has no place in your set up. But the fact that you either don't have a use for it, or don't care to find a use for it, doesn't make it something that you can just simply write-off for anyone and everyone.

And I'd be happy to take any Apex accessories (like an eb8!) you have in that closet laying around

I never said there isn't a use for it, or that it's a write off for everyone. Please don't put words in my mouth. You spent good money for your Apex and you're a proud owner, but you don't have to be so defensive of somebody with a different opinion. I simply don't find it useful for me given the cost. That's what the OP asked for, our opinions! And pH and temp monitoring haven't been an issue for me over the last 10 years! My lights, pumps, chillers, ATO and dosing pumps all have their own controllers.

[Joe0813]

I need to just suck it up and buy one already

[mikeatjac]

I travel a lot so for me it is a life saver. Tried the tank sitter and it ended up being a disaster.

[Ron Reefman]

Originally Posted by mikeatjac

I travel a lot so for me it is a life saver. Tried the tank sitter and it ended up being a disaster.

We travel a lot as well. And the cat sitter has taken on the aquarium work as well. If they have half a brain, a smartphone and you leave them with foolproof instructions, it works fine. But being able to monitor the tank while away is a nice feature, but still not worth $500+ to me.

[ReefCowboy]

Apex is awesome. I never thought controllers were wirth the money until i got a Jr as a gift and quickly sold it for a full unit.
Get it

[hkgar]

Monitors PH, Salinity, Temp and ORP.
Controls temp
Controls PH (alk) of Calcium Reactor
Controls Carbon (vinegar/vodka) dosing over a 24 hour period
Controls and shuts down my RO System when storage is full
Controls return pump for shut down at feeding time of automatic feeders and 1 manual feeding.
Shuts down skimmer whenever return pump is is off.
Manages and controls the auto water change system
Monitors for leaks with 3 strategically placed dampness detectors.
Shuts down ALL systems that move liquid (Ca Reactor, return pump, skimmer ATO, AWC, carbon dosing) and sends me an email.
Controls the lighting on off of my ATS
Controls the lighting on off of my frag tank
Sends me an email when anything is outside parameters or just goes wrong
Sounds an alarm when anything is outside parameters or just goes wrong, although you need to be in the same room to hear the alarm. It would not wake you up.

I think that's it.

[kalare]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

We travel a lot as well. And the cat sitter has taken on the aquarium work as well. If they have half a brain, a smartphone and you leave them with foolproof instructions, it works fine. But being able to monitor the tank while away is a nice feature, but still not worth $500+ to me.

We get it, you don't like it or feel it's not worth it. No reason to come in here and negate everyone else's reason for liking it.

I'm a cheap cheap man, never wanted to pay for anything and have DIY'd everything from skimmers, to tanks, to lights (from halide/vho years ago to led recently). I finally broke down this last year and purchased a new Apex. I had a hard time giving my credit card over...and then it sat in my closet for two months cause I was too lazy to set it up.

Once I set it up, I can't imagine running a tank without it. Makes everything so much easier. Two pH probes run tank pH and calcium reactor pH, temp monitoring, chiller if you need it, flow, leak detection, possibilities are endless. Necessary? Not at all, and I survived over 20 years with no controllers at all, but definitely all tanks moving forward, for me, will have one (or a similar controller).

[hkgar]

Oh yeah, it also allows me to record all my testing results to track and see trends or developing problems.

[greg683x]

A quick point about the single point of failure. Most folks are already operating on a single point of failure.....a circuit breaker. They go bad too, just like a relay or a board on a controller. The smart thing to do if you have a large reef is to have two circuits and split the equipment up, but I guarantee you 80% of hobbyists are just using one circuit, and on top of that it's probably not even a dedicated one. its kind of hard not to have a single point of failure doing what we do unless you have your tank hooked up to a power source with a battery operated ups.

Now all that being said I don't know the failure rate of apex controllers they could be very high, in which case it's not worth the money. Someone said there's horror stories but I promise you there's horror stories of a bad circuit breaker or bad gfi that tripped while they're away from home

I don't work for apex, and I actually prefer the old fashion way at least until they eliminate test kits, but single point of failure isn't something to be nervous about unless there's a big track record of it, bc most likely you're already operating on a single point of failure

[Ajae]

I love mine and wouldn't ever think about running one without one again. ON the other hand by this point you should be able to find a used one on CL or maybe even a jr. The "new" apex may be a little to expensive for a 45gallon. On the other hand a lot of equipment comes with some from of automation now so you may be able to do a lot of it with stand alone stuff. for exsample a lot of ATOs don't require the use of a aqua controller. Avast Marine makes a great ATO that doesn't have moving parts and comes with it's own plug for the pump.

[JohnnyHildo]

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

We travel a lot as well. And the cat sitter has taken on the aquarium work as well. If they have half a brain, a smartphone and you leave them with foolproof instructions, it works fine. But being able to monitor the tank while away is a nice feature, but still not worth $500+ to me.

well great for you that you don't have to spend the $500 because you already have one. before you pass judgement on it you should give it a shot... i guarantee that you don't take it down if an honest attempt is given.

[deleau]

Originally Posted by KashAlp

Hey guys, so I've been debating on pulling the trigger on a new Neptune Apex with EB8 controller for a few weeks for my 45 cube. A close friend of mine has one on his 120 I helped program and set up so I know a bit about them and how awesome they are. However, I was just wondering if you think they are really worth the $$$$ and would you consider it a tool that has made your tank evolve further then it would have without it?

Also with all the features and control it has what are the most used aspects of it you use the most frequently? Is it something you use and/or depend on daily? Would you buy another if you had the option?

PS.. I know people, myself included, who fork out the money for things HATE admitting they bought something they easily could have gone without or wasted money. Please try and be as unbiased as possible if your one of those people.

Thanks and merry Christmas

On the big tank out front, I have an Apex and it is used/depended on daily. The main "daily" uses are knowing that there are multiple safeguards in place should something go wrong (temperature/heater control, leak detectors, pH probe in Ca reactors, etc.).

One aspect that I don't think anyone has mentioned is the ability to log test measurements (and even do calculations based on the brand of test kit used...enter in the Hanna Alk reading and it auto converts to dKH).

Almost everything that it does can (and sometimes is) done elsewhere, but I think the benefit is being able to aggregate all that into one system.

Is it worth it?

On the big tank (which has tens of thousands of dollars of investment in equipment/livestock), the cost of an Apex is almost a rounding error at this point.

On my 40b mantis tank, no. I cannot see myself buying a controller for that tank.

Would I buy another?

At this point, I don't see a need in upgrading what I have to the new version, but when I set up my next tank (planning a 200+ gallon FOWLR), I will most certainly get one.