Frustrated and about to give up

[WessWackos]

Originally Posted by aznflyfisherman

I would remove that odd looking or fake rock. Do a 50% water change. And let the tank run for a few weeks n get a yellow tail damsel since its cheap n less aggessive of the damsel. also if your using a sump i would get rid of the canister, or atleast remove the bioballs if it was me.

Which "odd looking rock" are you referring to? The little one in the back corner on the left?

I do NOT have a sump...the only filter I have is the canister filter.

I'll do a water change and let her run.

[WessWackos]

Can you all see the red "dots" on the rock in this picture? This is the piece of "live rock" that I purchased. I have no idea if it is "live" or not now.

[WessWackos]

PH test

[aznflyfisherman]

Remove your fake rock in the middle? Where in PA r you im in nepa area.

[VirginiaMarine]

A friend bought some rock off of eBay. After he set up his tank, his PH was through the roof. We finally decided it was the rock. It just needed to be heavily rinsed which he did not do. He gave me a piece and it produces tons of white water rinse after rinse. You can get some bad rock if you aren't careful.


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[VirginiaMarine]

Originally Posted by WessWackos

I use a cheap tank thermometer (stuck to the side) with an inline heater.



I use a Coralife Deep six hydrometer to test the salinity...



How would I know if I have metals in the rocks?

Hydrometers are okay but not the most accurate. I used one for years but they can stick and the temperature of the water can affect the accuracy. I mix salt in a bucket then put a heater and pump in it. I always test again later. There are some decent and affordable refractometers. I just moved up to a digital refractometer. Check your thermometer with another to verify accuracy.


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[WessWackos]

I removed the small chunk in the middle...is that what you meant? Or do you mean the tall dark piece?

Originally Posted by aznflyfisherman

Remove your fake rock in the middle? Where in PA r you im in nepa area.

[WessWackos]

I removed the small chunk in the middle...is that what you meant? Or do you mean the tall dark piece?

I'm from Telford, PA...30 min. North of Philly.

Originally Posted by aznflyfisherman

Remove your fake rock in the middle? Where in PA r you im in nepa area.

[Nandez13]

Tanks can be very low maintenance if you dedicate enough research to the hobby.

While you're doing some research, I recommend adding an ammonia source to the tank and start a cycle. Give the tank some time to establish a bacteria population since it's been fallow for so long.

I HIGHLY recommend looking into adding a sump. I used to have a canister filter and all it does is trap junk in it. If you don't clean it out often enough, then it can build up ammonia and kill livestock.

Good luck

[Sk8r]

Maintenance isn't hard with the right equipment and hardy fish. Bioballs are not the best, nor are canisters, but with a fish-only, tolerable (just high nitrate)---checklist.
use rodi---tapwater may contain things like arsenic that piles up with evaporation
maintain your salinity steady at 1.024 (or 1.019 for fish-only)
maintain your alkalinity at 8.3 or thereabouts. 7.9-9.
maintain your temperature at 79.
that's about it. The main thing is---keep things from changing.
re metals in your tank, fast way to tell is with PolyFilter---snip a bit of the pad and float it in your water flow for a week. If it turns red, it's iron, blue, it's copper, etc. It also REMOVES what it detects, so it's a 2-fer.
Read that setting up sticky.
And if you're not going to qt, get all the fish you are going to get at once and don't add more fish later.

[ericarenee]

Originally Posted by WessWackos

I removed the small chunk in the middle...is that what you meant? Or do you mean the tall dark piece?

That sandstone looking Rock is the one i would be suspect of... Not that i have any idea of your issues

[dt204]

Is it possible the tank never cycled, and every new addition caused enough ammonia to kill it?

Get a small cheap thermometer. If your water is too warm it can stress out the new fish, which can compound problems.

The live rock you got is most likely dead now if the bacteria on it has had nothing to feed on for an extended period of time.

Where is your sand from? Depending on the source, it could have nasties in it.

Do you use RO/DI? Which salt mix?

Keep trying, you'll get it 😀👍

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[crazycolt42]

Just how many fish did you have in there when things were going wrong? You cannot stock nearly as many fish in a saltwater tank as you can a freshwater cichlid tank especially with a canister filter which provides no aeration. You say all your parameters were perfect, but I would bet you were way over stocked for the amount of dissolved O2 in your tank. Based on your questions, I agree with sk8r, do some research and get the right set-up going. You have what looks to be a very nice looking tank. I would at the very least make sure you have serious surface agitation or invest in a wet-dry if you are going to do a fish only tank. I do not think texas holy rock is the right rock to use in a saltwater tank either. You need to know what your putting in there - especially with saltwater. Invest in some dry caribsea rock or something. It will look better too. It sounds like you had green chromis at first that did well and are very hardy, but once you added others you either added to many or they could not tolerate the possible swings in water chemistry or lack of O2. I'm not sure what size tank you have, but I have heard as a very rough estimate of about one fish/10g of water with saltwater. I just switched over from African cichlids to saltwater and the idea with this hobby is to enjoy it. If it is frustrating you to no end, go with freshwater man. There are some very cool African cichlids set-ups you could do in that tank. Good luck, and hang it there!

[WessWackos]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Maintenance isn't hard with the right equipment and hardy fish. Bioballs are not the best, nor are canisters, but with a fish-only, tolerable (just high nitrate)---checklist.
use rodi---tapwater may contain things like arsenic that piles up with evaporation
maintain your salinity steady at 1.024 (or 1.019 for fish-only)
maintain your alkalinity at 8.3 or thereabouts. 7.9-9.
maintain your temperature at 79.
that's about it. The main thing is---keep things from changing.
re metals in your tank, fast way to tell is with PolyFilter---snip a bit of the pad and float it in your water flow for a week. If it turns red, it's iron, blue, it's copper, etc. It also REMOVES what it detects, so it's a 2-fer.
Read that setting up sticky.
And if you're not going to qt, get all the fish you are going to get at once and don't add more fish later.

What is "rodi"?
I can figure the rest out.
I can figure out "Polyfilter"
Does QT require setting up a whole other tank?
Where do you guys buy your fish? Online? If so, what is your favorite online site?

[WessWackos]

Originally Posted by crazycolt42

Just how many fish did you have in there when things were going wrong? You cannot stock nearly as many fish in a saltwater tank as you can a freshwater cichlid tank especially with a canister filter which provides no aeration. You say all your parameters were perfect, but I would bet you were way over stocked for the amount of dissolved O2 in your tank. Based on your questions, I agree with sk8r, do some research and get the right set-up going. You have what looks to be a very nice looking tank. I would at the very least make sure you have serious surface agitation or invest in a wet-dry if you are going to do a fish only tank. I do not think texas holy rock is the right rock to use in a saltwater tank either. You need to know what your putting in there - especially with saltwater. Invest in some dry caribsea rock or something. It will look better too. It sounds like you had green chromis at first that did well and are very hardy, but once you added others you either added to many or they could not tolerate the possible swings in water chemistry or lack of O2. I'm not sure what size tank you have, but I have heard as a very rough estimate of about one fish/10g of water with saltwater. I just switched over from African cichlids to saltwater and the idea with this hobby is to enjoy it. If it is frustrating you to no end, go with freshwater man. There are some very cool African cichlids set-ups you could do in that tank. Good luck, and hang it there!

Thanks for your thoughts...

I would LOVE some specific suggestions on SETUP.

I had two fish and never added more than 3 more at a time.....the most I ever had (55 gallon) was 5 fish.

Wet/dry?...what is that?

I can pull the Holey Rock...just thought it looked cool and others use it successfully.

55 gallon tank----with canister and 2 thrusters to aggitate (but is that enough?)

I'm VERY OPEN you suggestions: Sounds like I need a substrate filter at the very least to start.

[WatDatThing]

I don't want to be mean, but the fact that you don't know about wet/dry filter and RO/DI water tell me you haven't done enough research.

Rather than taking another dive, I would suggest you read up on reef tank requirement and setup. If you hate reading like me, watch a lot of youtube videos.

I would trash everything in the tank. Give the tank and filter a nice vinegar bath and start over.

[lukewithcats]

I get the feeling you would be better off with freshwater like you mentioned. I don't feel you really have a love for this or you would have done some research. If I'm wrong I'm sorry and can only recommend you fill the tank with appropriate rock and saltwater and phantom feed the tank for the next month while you learn what you should be doing. As for why your fish are dying I guess you are using tap water but who knows there isn't enough info.

[meeandcharlie]

Originally Posted by WessWackos

Temp is 78...Salinity has always stayed in the 30-34 range. I have not noticed any "ick" at any point along the way. I haven't had ANY fish for over a year so 72 days is clear.

I'll look at the "setting up" stickies next.

You mean salinity 30-34 ppt and not specific gravity, right?

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

[VirginiaMarine]

Wess, that is a gorgeous in wall tank. There are some Saltwater tank maintenance services in most areas. Maybe you could have someone help you or pay for a service to get you started. I would help if you were closer. There are tons of books out there, some at the library. Some are for beginners.


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[crazycolt42]

Originally Posted by WessWackos

Thanks for your thoughts...

I would LOVE some specific suggestions on SETUP.

I had two fish and never added more than 3 more at a time.....the most I ever had (55 gallon) was 5 fish.

Wet/dry?...what is that?

I can pull the Holey Rock...just thought it looked cool and others use it successfully.

55 gallon tank----with canister and 2 thrusters to aggitate (but is that enough?)

I'm VERY OPEN you suggestions: Sounds like I need a substrate filter at the very least to start.

5 fish in a 55 gallon is not too many as long as your biological filter is adequate. The rock in your tank and the bioballs in your canister filter are meant to grow benefical bacteria that turn the fish waste into less toxic chemicals. It is called the nitrogen cycle. Are you familiar with this? In saltwater tanks, if you use porous rock in the tank, it will grow this bacteria and help with the cycling. This is called "live rock". As a general rule, it is recommended to have about 1-1.5 lbs. of live rock per gallon of tank water if this is going to be your main means of biological filtration. Now, some decide to not use live rock and instead aquascape with stuff that does not grow benefical bacteria because it is not porous - example would be artificial coral "drop ins"- To compensate for this, the filter is a sump with large amounts of the bioballs. (look up wet-dry filtration).

Texas holey rock is very popular in African cichlid tanks because it is limestone. It slowly leaches out chemicals that work as a buffer to keep PH in a high range of 8.4 -to 9.0. That is of course too high in a saltwater tank. That being said, I don't think one piece of holey rock could throw off your PH that much, but I just don't know for sure.


I also cannot be sure if your two thrusters (powerheads) and the canister filter were adequate for producing dissolved O2. You can test for the amount of dissolved O2, but I don't know that I would go through all that trouble right now. But, I do know that it is an issue with saltwater set-ups and thus why it is recommended to utilize a wet-dry filtration set-up, use mesh screen vs. glass lids over the tank, and to have significantly more flow and surface agitation in the tank that what you would have in a similar freshwater set-up.

The fact that you were able to keep a couple fish successfully, and then had problems once you added more makes me think it had something to do with the amount of biological filtration (which could cause an ammonia spike), or the level of dissolved O2. It sounded like you lost the fish quickly? Typcially, if they develop ich or something, it is a slower process and not like you wake up one morning and find them belly-up. You would have started to notice the fish acting weird, seeing white spots on them, stopped eating, etc. before you lost them.

RODI stands for reverse osmosis deionization filtration for water. Again, the fact you were able to keep some fish successfully, your water could not have been too far off, especially if your LFS said your water parameters were spot on. However, it is highly recommended to use Reverse Osmosis water to mix your saltwater and if you are doing a reef tank, RODI water is recommended.

You obviously care a lot about keeping fish and want to make it work or else you wouldn't be on here. Do some research, know what everyone is talking about when they sayRODI, wet-dry, live rock, etc. Get your own test kit and check these parameters for yourself. If that were my tank, I would put in an e-shopps wet dry sump, and change the aquascape to about 40-50 lbs of dry live rock. Let it cycle for 4-6 weeks, and then slowly add hardy fish up to 5 total. I would use RO water, and use a spectrometer to check the salinity when mixing my saltwater. Keep the thrusters going and make sure I used a pump that will cycle 55 gallons 3-5x per hour. I would also invest in a reliable and inexpensive thermometer.

That IMO would make for a good FOWLR set-up or fish only with live rock set-up. You can also do a search on you-tube or here on FOWLR or fish-only set-ups. The possibilities are endless. When you describe your set-up, it reminded me a lot of set-up you would use for an African cichlid tank, so that maybe part of the problem. Good luck!

[dt204]

This 👆😀

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