How long can coral go without flow and light.

[ssgss gogeta]

You guys are missing my point I'm not saying the bag is equal to a tank I'm saying if a fish can survive in a bag for 36 hours even more surely fish and definitely coral can survive in your tank for at least 12 hours


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[ssgss gogeta]

Everyone gets so concerned when the power is off for an hour not relating to op but in general when the livestock in our tanks can be fine for much longer than we generally think


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[karimwassef]

a fish in a bag is the only significant living creature breathing.

a tank has bacteria and other life that are substantially more oxygen-consuming. If you have a sand bed or live rock, it is saturated with life that is competing for oxygen. As that dies, the bi-products of that death begin a cycle of decay that can quickly overwhelm a tank.

[heathlindner25]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

a fish in a bag is the only significant living creature breathing.

a tank has bacteria and other life that are substantially more oxygen-consuming. If you have a sand bed or live rock, it is saturated with life that is competing for oxygen. As that dies, the bi-products of that death begin a cycle of decay that can quickly overwhelm a tank.

This, Tanks can crash in hours after the flow has been removed .

[skimjim]

i can tell you Zoanthids can go DAYS out of the water.

Story:

i pulled a rock full out Zoas that had GHA and placed it in my utility-tub to scrub off the GHA. then my phone rang...talked on phone and TOTALLY forgot about the Zoa rock for TWO DAYS. once i remember, i placed the rock back in the tank thinking, "oh well. starting over on that rock..." Next day 90% of the Zoas popped right back out like nothing happened.

i'm still amazed how tough Zoas can be. my only thought is each individual zoa had saltwater inside them keeping them moist.

[skimjim]

CHEAP and EASY solution:



1000 watts POWER INVERTER that you connect to your CAR's BATTERY at one end and then run AC extension cables to plug into this unit.

So the SETUP:
> my car running close to my garage (no car running INSIDE garage bc of carbon monoxide killing me)
> this INVERTER laying on the garage floor but hooked to my running car's battery
> then AC extension cords going anywhere i want inside my house depending on the length of the extension cords. i have two to three 100ft extension cords.

$85 at Harbor Frieght for 1000watt
$170 for 2000watt
$280 for 3000watt

https://www.harborfreight.com/catalo...ower+converter

I personally have the 2000watt that in an emergency within 10mins.... I can power both my Tanks heater and waterflow.....PLUS my house's refrigerator.

I have personally used it a couple of times when power in my area has been out for like 8-12hrs.

[karimwassef]

Just need gasoline or charged batteries on hand

[jda]

Originally Posted by ssjss gogeta

You guys are missing my point I'm not saying the bag is equal to a tank I'm saying if a fish can survive in a bag for 36 hours even more surely fish and definitely coral can survive in your tank for at least 12 hours

You suppositions are not right. I am quite glad that you don't know this out of personal experience, but if you ever do lose power for an extended amount of time, then I suggest that you take the advice of the folks and get something going in a few hours.

[heathlindner25]

Skimjim, You are completely missing the point, and comparing apples to shoelaces . I have also left palys outside in a bucket in the middle of Winter and they lived for quite a long time .

[Jaya8309]

Originally Posted by jda

You suppositions are not right. I am quite glad that you don't know this out of personal experience, but if you ever do lose power for an extended amount of time, then I suggest that you take the advice of the folks and get something going in a few hours.

I didn't have power for a week and only lost an anemone.. battery powered airstone last two days but that's it ... hurricane Harvey


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[karimwassef]

that's a good point. I would say low power air pumps could be a very effective way of keeping a tank alive for an extended period of time.

I haven't compared the power consumption of 24V powerheads to comparable air pumps.

[ssgss gogeta]

Originally Posted by jda

You suppositions are not right. I am quite glad that you don't know this out of personal experience, but if you ever do lose power for an extended amount of time, then I suggest that you take the advice of the folks and get something going in a few hours.

Refer to below. People get to concerned, of course it would be inhuman to test it for
The sake of it but easily tank can go without power much longer than most people think

Originally Posted by Jaya8309

I didn't have power for a week and only lost an anemone.. battery powered airstone last two days but that's it ... hurricane Harvey


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[karimwassef]

he used a battery powered airstone. That's the point. water needs to move or the tank dies.

It's like having blood but not having it moving in your arteries and veins. No oxygen delivered. No CO2 removed.

[ssgss gogeta]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

he used a battery powered airstone. That's the point. water needs to move or the tank dies.

It's like having blood but not having it moving in your arteries and veins. No oxygen delivered. No CO2 removed.

He used it the last 2 days!! Not before


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[ssgss gogeta]

That's 5 days, I am gonna assume he did some manual surface agitation though. And not every tank is the same. Let me ask you a question have you personally seen a tank crash within a few hours of not having power? Not what someone said on the internet, how you seen one? I've had tanks go 6-8 hours without power with only manual surface agitation a couple times when walking past every now and than. It's not a dire straights as people think.


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[karimwassef]

Yes. I've had a tank crash while I was out of town and the power went out.

Check the posts - especially around vacations ...

[jda]

Why don't you go ahead and turn your power off for 12 hours and walk away and not check on it until then. This is easy to test for if you don't believe the people who have seen this with their own eyes.

[ssgss gogeta]

Originally Posted by jda

Why don't you go ahead and turn your power off for 12 hours and walk away and not check on it until then. This is easy to test for if you don't believe the people who have seen this with their own eyes.

I had multiple power outages during a short period of time at least 4 6-8 hour outages during a few weeks due to weather. No I'll effects a couple hours FROM MY EXPERIENCE IS NOT TROUBLESOME

From someone else's experience MULTIPLE DAYS with little ill effect.

And no I won't intentionally harm my tank and it's inhabitants. It was due to my experience I built a large battery back up so I didn't harm my tank. And I do think steps should be taken to be proactive in keeping the tank running to protect your inhabitants. But as a bare bones how long a couple hours should not be a problem


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[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally Posted by ssjss gogeta

Let me ask you a question have you personally seen a tank crash within a few hours of not having power?

Yes.

[Jaya8309]

No surface agitation for 5 days because I went to Dallas. I have kids and hurricane was coming right to us so only last two days


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[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally Posted by ssjss gogeta

And I do think steps should be taken to be proactive in keeping the tank running to protect your inhabitants.

Good! That's something we can all agree on.

At the beginning of this thread, you suggested that tanks could reasonably go "for days" without power. Yes, there are occasional cases where tanks have gone for days without power and most inhabitants survived. There are other stories (firsthand!) where tanks have crashed after only a few hours. When giving advice on the internet, personally, I try to err on the side of caution, and hence I didn't feel like your original comment that tanks could easily go for days was sound advice.

You gave shipping bags as your evidence. Several of us have tried to point out important differences why shipping bags have nothing to do with the environment in a tank. You tried to suggest that shippers don't commonly use oxygen. Have you ever been in a shipping facility? I have. They were using oxygen.

Since people have argued against your shipping bag logic, you're just now letting us know that you've had several power outages. I'm glad your tank survived, but you've got a several people with decades each in this hobby who all have personal experience with tanks crashing after even short power outages. I'm glad you've shortened your estimate from several days to a few hours. Maybe we can all walk away from this silly argument now and agree that tanks can be at risk very quickly without power, and it is important to have methods handy to sustain your livestock even after a very short outage.

[Jaya8309]

Very well said sir


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[ssgss gogeta]

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

Good! That's something we can all agree on.



At the beginning of this thread, you suggested that tanks could reasonably go "for days" without power. Yes, there are occasional cases where tanks have gone for days without power and most inhabitants survived. There are other stories (firsthand!) where tanks have crashed after only a few hours. When giving advice on the internet, personally, I try to err on the side of caution, and hence I didn't feel like your original comment that tanks could easily go for days was sound advice.



You gave shipping bags as your evidence. Several of us have tried to point out important differences why shipping bags have nothing to do with the environment in a tank. You tried to suggest that shippers don't commonly use oxygen. Have you ever been in a shipping facility? I have. They were using oxygen.



Since people have argued against your shipping bag logic, you're just now letting us know that you've had several power outages. I'm glad your tank survived, but you've got a several people with decades each in this hobby who all have personal experience with tanks crashing after even short power outages. I'm glad you've shortened your estimate from several days to a few hours. Maybe we can all walk away from this silly argument now and agree that tanks can be at risk very quickly without power, and it is important to have methods handy to sustain your livestock even after a very short outage.

I am here for discussion, what I was curious about was if people had personal experience that I value very highly. I haven't been here long and maybe I am a little outdated but I have noticed a lot of regurgitating. People simply saying something that has been said multiple times without being questioned. So I will ask if people have had personal experiences as I said I will value what they say.

I have been reef keeping for roughly a decade myself. Not constantly having tanks few years in between for various reasons. No one is finished learning and growing which is why discussion is important.

Originally I said days you are correct this was referring to coral specifically then I have changed timeline to allow for fish and more oxygen demanding inhabitants not just limited to coral as a broad spectrum. If I wasn't clear that was the amendment that's my fault.

I did use shipping bags as an example because this is a good example of how livestock can be made to last in stagnant water for long periods of time. As far as putting oxygen in my query is have you ever had an supplier mislead you to get to a sale or to make their overheads cheaper. It's a legitimate concern because it does happen regularly not saying particularly with taking care to shipping but in general from suppliers. I have no personally had many things shipped only for rare items that I cannot source locally.

And yes I'm interested in shorter periods of time where people have verified their tanks did not last more than a few hours because it is their own experience. But it is not what I have experienced so I am questioning further to understand

Also the verification that their own experiences did not do well after a few hours has only happened recently in the discussion not further back.


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[jda]

I forgot to turn my pump back on after some maintenance on a FO tank that I had around 2000-2001. Within 6 hours when I suddenly remembered, all the fish were dead. Six hours and full death. Thankfully, I had just given about six or eight fish to the 2500G at the local children's hospital and they survived the mess and only a few died.

My fish were laying on their sides four hours into a outage for ice in 2003. That was horrible - 20 days without power and not a generator to be found in 250 miles... but I had one already. Four hours was a long as I would go when the generator shut off before I would get up and start everything again - the fish were starting so suffer every time.

I am happy that you made it 6-8 hours a few times, but that is still is not 12. Don't you think that advice a bit more conservative rather than risky might help people more?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Originally Posted by ssjss gogeta

As far as putting oxygen in my query is have you ever had an supplier mislead you to get to a sale or to make their overheads cheaper. It's a legitimate concern because it does happen regularly

Ok, let me make it clear. I've been in the actual distribution facilities of a major vendor that ships marine fish. They filled fish bags with oxygen, as does every other major supplier I'm aware of. This isn't something where I was lied to casually over the phone or email, I did actually literally see it in person. I spent a portion of my career working for the largest industrial gas vendor in North America, I don't think anyone is going to trick me about what an oxygen cylinder looks like or how it's used in order to make a sale. I wasn't even there to buy anything, actually, I was there because I was offered a tour. And whether you believe me or not, it is actually pretty much standard practice to fill fish bags with oxygen for shipping - because it makes a difference. It's cheaper for a vendor to spend a few bucks a day on oxygen versus handling a lot of DOAs.

Go look in the new to the hobby forum for a stickied thread about shipping bag mortalities. Shipped fish left too long in their bag water after the bag has been opened (ie in order to slowly drip acclimate) often die, because the captive oxygen supply is gone and the stagnant, unoxygenated water is now rather deadly. That dead fish may have been able to live several more hours if the bag hadn't been opened, or if they had been transferred quickly to a running tank versus left in the still bag water, but the act of opening the bag makes the environment much more harmful. Ironically, the example you brought up is proving pretty much the opposite point of what you intended. Stagnant water with no oxygenation is quickly deadly for fish.

I've found another thing we agree on - it's reasonable to question and ask for proof and you should never stop learning in this (or any) hobby. Again though, I hope we can let this silly argument die at this point.