NEW plumbing method for an ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK!!!! LONG !!!! - Page 2

MrSandman · 03/29/2004, 02:49 PM

lilbuddy,

My website doesn't show the sump end of things. However, it does show the overflow part which is simply a durso standpipe.

lilbuddy · 03/29/2004, 02:52 PM

was i right in thinking you basically just have your intake lines t'd off at the bottom under the water?

tia

bigduke · 03/29/2004, 03:09 PM

trilinearmipmap and MrSandman, do either of you have a close up pic of how you plumbed your drain into the sump? I have a similar issue with a durso that is silent but the splashing/gurgling into the sump could be quieted. I'd like to get an idea of where you plumbed the T in regards to water level and if you have an elbow on the T pointing back up for the air to escape.
Nice job Herbie and thanks for sharing.

trilinearmipmap · 03/29/2004, 03:21 PM

First of all Herbie's idea is great. I am ordering a new 120 in the next few days, I will set it up with the standard Durso method but if I get noise in the sump I will consider Herbie's method.

I don't have any sump pictures to post because I am one of those people who have studied their reef tank to death without actually starting it yet. After more than a year of reading the different forums I am finally getting my tank. I have fw plant tanks though which are sumpless.

I think most people from what I have read don't have a big issue with noise in their sump however everyone's situation is different, different overflow sizes, different sump volumes, different return pumps, different height from top of overflow to stand, and different flow rates. So I don't think you can generalize and say that one method will work for everyone.

Also everyone's definition of silence is different. Some of us have very sensitive hearing and a slight noise (like my computer fan noise right now) sounds like a roar. Others who are a little hard of hearing may not notice the noise from their tank.

Anyway the main reason I don't try Herbie's idea right away is I think I can get pretty close to silent using standard methods, and Herbie's method looks like it would take more time and effort to set up. As for air getting into the standpipes using Herbie's method, it won't. The top of the standpipe is under several inches of water, the outflow into the sump is under several inches of water, how could the air get in? Herbie's method should allow for higher flow rates through a given size pipe, because only water, and no air, would flow through the pipe, and the flow would be more linear, rather than turbulent sloshing flow from a mixture of air and water.

Anyway excellent idea Herbie, I will use it if standard methods don't give me a quiet enough system.

perpetual98 · 03/30/2004, 08:42 AM

Tagging along

I'm interested in some Tee pictures in the sump as well. I think I understand the concept, just wanting to make sure.

Eric

MrSandman · 03/30/2004, 11:55 AM

I totally forgot to take a picture when i got home last night. Anyways, i did a quick sketch for everyone to see. Hope this clears it up some.

mjw357 · 03/30/2004, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jersey
Correct me if I'm wrong but, I think it will work as long as the pipe is large enough to handle the flow.

yes, all he is doing is restricting the flow enough with the valve to keep the water level a little above the top of the pipe.

Quote:

Originally posted by EricS
That's exactly it, an overflow IS NOT a siphon.

I think he was just making a comparison to show that water flowing out of a hose uninterrupted by air is very quiet.

Quote:

Originally posted by EricS

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The overflow is getting air into it....its open. You are not talking about a closed box.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, I said that the system IS getting air (it has to or it won't function). He's the one that said "no air", which is not possible.

you are bickering over the wording. there is no air flowing through the drain, it is a solid column of water. the reason it works is because the air pressure is the same at the overflow box and at the outlet.

atrain · 03/31/2004, 12:22 AM

Regardless of whether or not people chose to use this method should be irrelavent. Herbie has found a method of keeping his tank silent and has shared it with everyone. Taking the time for the long posts as well as the follow-ups with pictures and discussion and with ethusiasm as well

If this works for one person or more, we should all be thankful ,and maybe discuss other points (i.e. the tee fitting at the bottom of the sump etc) in helping reduce sound from overflow and/or sump, rather than arguing about the point as mjw357 has shown regarding the wording.

trilinearmipmap · 03/31/2004, 12:40 AM

Yeah, what he said.

john rochon · 03/31/2004, 08:29 AM

This is very cool but nothing really new. People do this alot using just a strainer on a bulkhead and making sure the water level is always covering the strainer completely. Be it with a oversized pump dialed back or a gate valve on the drain line. The thing here is that having an ''extra'' return line is a good idea because without any air being intriduced into the lines you could get fluctuations when sump levels rise and fall even in the slightest.
You also lose the ability of good flow unless you drill your drains according larger! because no air, less flos. even toilets are vented just for that reason. Its a very good idea in principal but you'll need extra big bulkheads and drain lines to compensate for lack of flow. I think the idea is very doable and I will be doing something similar with my 500g with the ''emergency extra drain'' bieng in a seperate chamber that when and if the water rises to much in the box it will flow to another compartment in the box slightly elevated and down the emergency drain. Doubt I'll ever need it thow

mjw357 · 03/31/2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by john rochon
because no air, less flos. even toilets are vented just for that reason.

again, we are confusing this with a sealed system.

all plumbing drains need vents because they all have traps filled with water. a toilet is just a big trap/siphon that flushes when it is overfilled with water. when the water goes down the drain it pulls air down with it, because it fills the pipe and acts like a piston. if there was no vent, the trap would gurgle as air was pulled through it.

overflows are not siphons, they are simply gravity drains that are open to the atmosphere at both ends. they will drain as fast as gravity will allow through the pipes provided.

ReeferAl · 03/31/2004, 09:08 AM

Herbie,
FWIW, I found your description quite clear (long but clear). If I didn't have my sump in a back room where noise doesn't matter I might give it a try. Great idea!
Allen

Herbie · 03/31/2004, 03:36 PM

O.K. .........Here Goes.
I only posted this "idea" because I felt I may be able to help anyone who has tried a lot of things to quiet down there system but has come up short, like myself. I have a box FULL of pvc fittings and I have cut and glued more PVC in the past month than I would like to think of. I have made a FEW durso standpipes and I did say that they worked GREAT for quieting down the overflow box. My issue was with the water/air noise in the sump. Looking at the number of views this thread has, there is at least some interest in this topic!
On the other hand. I DID NOT intend this "idea" to be big debate on the dynamics of fluid hydraulics! Its QUIET,safe and it works! I see no reason why some feel that this has to be only a low flow set-up. This method will work with as much water flow as the original open stand piped overflow box would, because thats what it is! Just without air IN the drainline/standpipe, keeping the water noise to a minimum. Yes this system needs air to work, but there is no air getting in the drain line. To even compare our systems to a household plumbing system is silly. Lets not bicker about the wording. Also the sump water level has little effect on the level of water in the overflow box. I have tried it.
So for everyone who this has helped, even just the emergency return idea..........thats great, thats why we are all here! If nobody had a new way of thinking once in a while, our hobby (passion) would never advance. Just think.......we would all still be running undergravel filters and incandesant lighting!!!
Cheers.............Herbie

Robbob29 · 03/31/2004, 04:18 PM

Just wanted to thank you Herbie for the great idea, I just went over and closed my valve on my stand pipe and noticed the difference, wow. I am using the return in my tank now so I will have to wait till the weekend to take it out and make the emergancy over flow. I opened it back up and the noise just started right back up. I will leave it open till the weekend.

I don't know if I will be able to sleep with the tank that quiet, been living with the noise for about a year. can't wait to try it.

Rob

in2deep · 03/31/2004, 07:29 PM

I did this exact same thing a year ago to my 90 gallon tank and it works like a charm and although i used the homemade durso's with mine it still worked perfectly since the ball valve (gate valve works even better) allows total control of the flow and noise. Herbie did you mention there is such thing as a 3/4 inch bulkhead that would accomodate 1 inch pipe so that the emergency overflow would hanle more flow? I have been wondering the same thing to increase the flow in the smaller pipe just in case.

Herbie · 03/31/2004, 09:15 PM

Robbob, glad to have helped! IT DOES WORK !!!
In2deep, I found a fitting at HD. Its a 3/4 threaded to a 1" slip adapter. Just thread it into the 3/4 bulkhead and slip in the 1" stand pipe. It seemed to flow better flow rates due to a higher head pressure? I think that is important to glue everything and use teflon tape on the threads. This way if the power is cut, The couple of gallons that is in the overflow doesnt flood the sump! Make sure a "siphon break" hole is drilled in the new pump output about a 1/2 below the running water level of the tank. This will pevent a backflow from the pump output plumbing into the sump if the power is cut.
Later.............Herbie

tereefic · 03/31/2004, 09:56 PM

In my battle against noise last summer, I experimented with the gate valves to keep the water level above the pipe a few inches and your right that it worked perfectly (I had 2 1" returns....1500 gph return pump). But I didn't think of using the other bulkhead for "an emergency" drain....so I aborted it for safety, but now it's possible....Thx for the idea, Maybe I'll try it again

Herbie · 04/01/2004, 05:17 PM

tereeficm
I would be carefull. I dont think that it is possible to run 1500 gph through a single 1" bulkhead/standpipe. You will know real quick if it doesnt work!
Later...........Herbie

nelson4u · 04/03/2004, 12:16 AM

I will be plumbing a 140 soon. Has anyone else used the sump silencer "T" fitting with elbow like MrSandman showed us above ? Is it really quiet ? It seems that using Durso's with this "T" in the sump would be very easy if it is truely quiet. Anyone have any more input on this ?

capescuba · 04/06/2004, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrSandman
I totally forgot to take a picture when i got home last night. Anyways, i did a quick sketch for everyone to see. Hope this clears it up some. I should also note that the elbow coming out from the tee should be above water at all times or this won't work.

Thanks MrSandman, this is exactly what I was looking for to go on my new 210 I just hooked up. Durso works a treat, barely a sound, bu the Hot Tub/Jacquizzi in my Sump is something else. Looks like this little mod will help out, allowing the air to purge without bubbling so much in the sump! Excelent!

atrain · 04/07/2004, 05:27 PM

just thought i'd share my experience. I was having noise problems with my durso/sump .... which is the whole reason I checked out the thread to begin with. However, b4 replumbing the entire thing, I gave the "tee" fitting a try. At first it was creating the same amount of noise as without, the noise was merely coming from the pipe above the water. Therefore I tried an idea I had from the venturi silencer on my beckett mod. I stuck a end cap in the opening and drilled a small hole in the top, about the same size as the one on top of the durso. This killed the majority of the sound, not silent, but hellava lot better!!

I also killed what was left of the sound by placing a cotton ball in the end cap(threaded inverted into the pipe), but removed it thinking would get wet and clog eventually being so close to the water. Also silent enough with just the end cap placed there as well. Hope this helps anyone trying it, if the tee doesn't work by itself

atrain · 04/07/2004, 05:30 PM

Just thought i'd post a thx for everyone that posted here, It's not only made me, but also my girlfriend very very happy

capescuba · 04/07/2004, 05:33 PM

Thanks for the mod tip atrain! If the tee alone doesn't do it, then I'll try your idea..

jun41 · 04/11/2004, 09:35 PM

Right when I saw ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK I clicked on this thread. It looked like a title on ebay or something. But wow, this is some good info. Tomorrow is monday and I'll give some of thesse ideas a trial run.

ungerbe · 04/21/2004, 10:57 AM

Herbie - you are my hero

I was told about this thread and read through it thinking "silent" was a relative term. Well, last weekend I switched over my RR 75 to your system. WOW! After correcting a couple small noise issues, it was DEAD SILENT! The only noise I could even detect at all was the sound of the air inlet to my protien skimmer.

A couple comments though just for those interested. I utilized a 1" gate valve to control the amount of restriction. This seemed to be very key in my case. The level in the overflow is VERY sensitive to the slightest change in the restriction. In fact, to get it to settle-out I do have a slight trickle of water going down the emergency pipe at all times. The other comment is less significant. Due to the shorter stand pipe I take in more water during a loss-of-power event. It does not exceed the capacity of my sump, but gets pretty close.

In general, I have to say that I could not be happier with the lack of noise. The durso was great for intake noise, but horribly loud no matter what I did in the sump end. There are things you can to do quiet it down, but I can't imagine ANYTHING that could compete with the silence this system delivers.

Great job Herbie!

03/29/2004, 02:49 PM	#26
MrSandman Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South Bay, So. Cal. Posts: 5,408 Blog Entries: 6	lilbuddy, My website doesn't show the sump end of things. However, it does show the overflow part which is simply a durso standpipe. __________________ June 2001 Tank of the Month. Yes, i said 2001. Current Tank Info: 112G 36"x36"x20" Lee-mar rimless. Build Thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2293182.

03/29/2004, 02:52 PM	#27
lilbuddy Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 2,828	was i right in thinking you basically just have your intake lines t'd off at the bottom under the water? tia __________________ "You're my boy Blue!!".... Frank The Tank Git-r-done...

03/30/2004, 08:42 AM	#30
perpetual98 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oconomowoc Posts: 1,242	Tagging along I'm interested in some Tee pictures in the sump as well. I think I understand the concept, just wanting to make sure. Eric __________________ Used to have many SW tanks, now starting over with one...

03/30/2004, 11:55 AM	#31
MrSandman Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: South Bay, So. Cal. Posts: 5,408 Blog Entries: 6	I totally forgot to take a picture when i got home last night. Anyways, i did a quick sketch for everyone to see. Hope this clears it up some. __________________ June 2001 Tank of the Month. Yes, i said 2001. Current Tank Info: 112G 36"x36"x20" Lee-mar rimless. Build Thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2293182. Last edited by MrSandman; 11/21/2004 at 12:38 PM.

03/31/2004, 04:18 PM	#39
Robbob29 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Northern Cambria, PA Posts: 83	Just wanted to thank you Herbie for the great idea, I just went over and closed my valve on my stand pipe and noticed the difference, wow. I am using the return in my tank now so I will have to wait till the weekend to take it out and make the emergancy over flow. I opened it back up and the noise just started right back up. I will leave it open till the weekend. I don't know if I will be able to sleep with the tank that quiet, been living with the noise for about a year. can't wait to try it. Rob __________________ Famous last words of a redneck "Hold my beer and watch this!!!!" Current Tank Info: 55 Gallon African Cichlid, 72 Gallon Bow Front Reef, 10 gallon Nano

03/29/2004, 03:09 PM	#28
bigduke Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: San Jose Posts: 96	trilinearmipmap and MrSandman, do either of you have a close up pic of how you plumbed your drain into the sump? I have a similar issue with a durso that is silent but the splashing/gurgling into the sump could be quieted. I'd like to get an idea of where you plumbed the T in regards to water level and if you have an elbow on the T pointing back up for the air to escape. Nice job Herbie and thanks for sharing.

03/29/2004, 03:21 PM	#29
trilinearmipmap Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 391	First of all Herbie's idea is great. I am ordering a new 120 in the next few days, I will set it up with the standard Durso method but if I get noise in the sump I will consider Herbie's method. I don't have any sump pictures to post because I am one of those people who have studied their reef tank to death without actually starting it yet. After more than a year of reading the different forums I am finally getting my tank. I have fw plant tanks though which are sumpless. I think most people from what I have read don't have a big issue with noise in their sump however everyone's situation is different, different overflow sizes, different sump volumes, different return pumps, different height from top of overflow to stand, and different flow rates. So I don't think you can generalize and say that one method will work for everyone. Also everyone's definition of silence is different. Some of us have very sensitive hearing and a slight noise (like my computer fan noise right now) sounds like a roar. Others who are a little hard of hearing may not notice the noise from their tank. Anyway the main reason I don't try Herbie's idea right away is I think I can get pretty close to silent using standard methods, and Herbie's method looks like it would take more time and effort to set up. As for air getting into the standpipes using Herbie's method, it won't. The top of the standpipe is under several inches of water, the outflow into the sump is under several inches of water, how could the air get in? Herbie's method should allow for higher flow rates through a given size pipe, because only water, and no air, would flow through the pipe, and the flow would be more linear, rather than turbulent sloshing flow from a mixture of air and water. Anyway excellent idea Herbie, I will use it if standard methods don't give me a quiet enough system.

03/31/2004, 12:22 AM	#33
atrain Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 164	Regardless of whether or not people chose to use this method should be irrelavent. Herbie has found a method of keeping his tank silent and has shared it with everyone. Taking the time for the long posts as well as the follow-ups with pictures and discussion and with ethusiasm as well If this works for one person or more, we should all be thankful ,and maybe discuss other points (i.e. the tee fitting at the bottom of the sump etc) in helping reduce sound from overflow and/or sump, rather than arguing about the point as mjw357 has shown regarding the wording.

03/31/2004, 12:40 AM	#34
trilinearmipmap Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 391	Yeah, what he said.

03/31/2004, 08:29 AM	#35
john rochon Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: canada Posts: 2,082	This is very cool but nothing really new. People do this alot using just a strainer on a bulkhead and making sure the water level is always covering the strainer completely. Be it with a oversized pump dialed back or a gate valve on the drain line. The thing here is that having an ''extra'' return line is a good idea because without any air being intriduced into the lines you could get fluctuations when sump levels rise and fall even in the slightest. You also lose the ability of good flow unless you drill your drains according larger! because no air, less flos. even toilets are vented just for that reason. Its a very good idea in principal but you'll need extra big bulkheads and drain lines to compensate for lack of flow. I think the idea is very doable and I will be doing something similar with my 500g with the ''emergency extra drain'' bieng in a seperate chamber that when and if the water rises to much in the box it will flow to another compartment in the box slightly elevated and down the emergency drain. Doubt I'll ever need it thow

03/31/2004, 09:08 AM	#37
ReeferAl Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Fond du Lac, WI Posts: 2,040	Herbie, FWIW, I found your description quite clear (long but clear). If I didn't have my sump in a back room where noise doesn't matter I might give it a try. Great idea! Allen

03/31/2004, 03:36 PM	#38
Herbie Yep,that one Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 694	O.K. .........Here Goes. I only posted this "idea" because I felt I may be able to help anyone who has tried a lot of things to quiet down there system but has come up short, like myself. I have a box FULL of pvc fittings and I have cut and glued more PVC in the past month than I would like to think of. I have made a FEW durso standpipes and I did say that they worked GREAT for quieting down the overflow box. My issue was with the water/air noise in the sump. Looking at the number of views this thread has, there is at least some interest in this topic! On the other hand. I DID NOT intend this "idea" to be big debate on the dynamics of fluid hydraulics! Its QUIET,safe and it works! I see no reason why some feel that this has to be only a low flow set-up. This method will work with as much water flow as the original open stand piped overflow box would, because thats what it is! Just without air IN the drainline/standpipe, keeping the water noise to a minimum. Yes this system needs air to work, but there is no air getting in the drain line. To even compare our systems to a household plumbing system is silly. Lets not bicker about the wording. Also the sump water level has little effect on the level of water in the overflow box. I have tried it. So for everyone who this has helped, even just the emergency return idea..........thats great, thats why we are all here! If nobody had a new way of thinking once in a while, our hobby (passion) would never advance. Just think.......we would all still be running undergravel filters and incandesant lighting!!! Cheers.............Herbie

03/31/2004, 07:29 PM	#40
in2deep Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 880	I did this exact same thing a year ago to my 90 gallon tank and it works like a charm and although i used the homemade durso's with mine it still worked perfectly since the ball valve (gate valve works even better) allows total control of the flow and noise. Herbie did you mention there is such thing as a 3/4 inch bulkhead that would accomodate 1 inch pipe so that the emergency overflow would hanle more flow? I have been wondering the same thing to increase the flow in the smaller pipe just in case.

03/31/2004, 09:15 PM	#41
Herbie Yep,that one Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 694	Robbob, glad to have helped! IT DOES WORK !!! In2deep, I found a fitting at HD. Its a 3/4 threaded to a 1" slip adapter. Just thread it into the 3/4 bulkhead and slip in the 1" stand pipe. It seemed to flow better flow rates due to a higher head pressure? I think that is important to glue everything and use teflon tape on the threads. This way if the power is cut, The couple of gallons that is in the overflow doesnt flood the sump! Make sure a "siphon break" hole is drilled in the new pump output about a 1/2 below the running water level of the tank. This will pevent a backflow from the pump output plumbing into the sump if the power is cut. Later.............Herbie

03/31/2004, 09:56 PM	#42
tereefic Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NH, USA Posts: 98	In my battle against noise last summer, I experimented with the gate valves to keep the water level above the pipe a few inches and your right that it worked perfectly (I had 2 1" returns....1500 gph return pump). But I didn't think of using the other bulkhead for "an emergency" drain....so I aborted it for safety, but now it's possible....Thx for the idea, Maybe I'll try it again

04/01/2004, 05:17 PM	#43
Herbie Yep,that one Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Central PA Posts: 694	tereeficm I would be carefull. I dont think that it is possible to run 1500 gph through a single 1" bulkhead/standpipe. You will know real quick if it doesnt work! Later...........Herbie

04/03/2004, 12:16 AM	#44
nelson4u Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 337	I will be plumbing a 140 soon. Has anyone else used the sump silencer "T" fitting with elbow like MrSandman showed us above ? Is it really quiet ? It seems that using Durso's with this "T" in the sump would be very easy if it is truely quiet. Anyone have any more input on this ? __________________ Mike

04/07/2004, 05:27 PM	#46
atrain Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 164	just thought i'd share my experience. I was having noise problems with my durso/sump .... which is the whole reason I checked out the thread to begin with. However, b4 replumbing the entire thing, I gave the "tee" fitting a try. At first it was creating the same amount of noise as without, the noise was merely coming from the pipe above the water. Therefore I tried an idea I had from the venturi silencer on my beckett mod. I stuck a end cap in the opening and drilled a small hole in the top, about the same size as the one on top of the durso. This killed the majority of the sound, not silent, but hellava lot better!! I also killed what was left of the sound by placing a cotton ball in the end cap(threaded inverted into the pipe), but removed it thinking would get wet and clog eventually being so close to the water. Also silent enough with just the end cap placed there as well. Hope this helps anyone trying it, if the tee doesn't work by itself

04/07/2004, 05:30 PM	#47
atrain Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 164	Just thought i'd post a thx for everyone that posted here, It's not only made me, but also my girlfriend very very happy

04/07/2004, 05:33 PM	#48
capescuba Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: SF / Bay Area Posts: 828	Thanks for the mod tip atrain! If the tee alone doesn't do it, then I'll try your idea.. __________________ How do you know you can't swim until you have drowned? Current Tank Info: 210 Reef, 50g Sump, Euro-Reef CS8-3, 2xMag18 Returns, Aqua-Spacelight III, Oceans Motions 4-way, 350lb LR, 300lb LS. 6xRose BTA, Mated Maroon Clowns, 2 Blue Tangs, Bi-Colour Blenny, 4 Bartlett's Anthias . Mainly softies with a few LPS

04/11/2004, 09:35 PM	#49
jun41 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Burlingame, Ca Posts: 683	Right when I saw ULTRA QUIET REEF TANK I clicked on this thread. It looked like a title on ebay or something. But wow, this is some good info. Tomorrow is monday and I'll give some of thesse ideas a trial run.

04/21/2004, 10:57 AM	#50
ungerbe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 15	What I found out Herbie - you are my hero I was told about this thread and read through it thinking "silent" was a relative term. Well, last weekend I switched over my RR 75 to your system. WOW! After correcting a couple small noise issues, it was DEAD SILENT! The only noise I could even detect at all was the sound of the air inlet to my protien skimmer. A couple comments though just for those interested. I utilized a 1" gate valve to control the amount of restriction. This seemed to be very key in my case. The level in the overflow is VERY sensitive to the slightest change in the restriction. In fact, to get it to settle-out I do have a slight trickle of water going down the emergency pipe at all times. The other comment is less significant. Due to the shorter stand pipe I take in more water during a loss-of-power event. It does not exceed the capacity of my sump, but gets pretty close. In general, I have to say that I could not be happier with the lack of noise. The durso was great for intake noise, but horribly loud no matter what I did in the sump end. There are things you can to do quiet it down, but I can't imagine ANYTHING that could compete with the silence this system delivers. Great job Herbie!