SolaTubes for reef tanks

[440cudaman]

Eddie,

I don't think it's applicable. But you can't discount anything in this hobbie.

Interesting idea if you are using artificial lighting.

[SPasse]

Eddie,

One of the attractions of natural sunlight is it’s unaltered spectra.

Many SPS coral come from shallow water where there is very little shift from “unfiltered� sunlight.

Or perhaps you were addressing the aesthetics issue.

Just about any “filter� might also filter out too much UV.

(Hopefully this won’t set off another intensity vs. UV debate)

Regards,

Scott

[MchEdward]

440cudaman
I got my ECO-Wheel directly from Aquatic Engeineers. 180 Gal tank and all. Shipping was not cheap! I beleive they are getting a few shops to sell them but i don't think there are many at this point. Love the system, natural, at least as much as an acrylic cube hundres of miles away from the ocean can be. That is why I was thinking about the solor tubes to round out the natural theam. I would love to see some picks.

[baja_01]

About how much do these solar-tubes cost?

[Brad A.]

Any pictures yet??

[David Corbett]

You have a light metter, how does the intensity of the solar tubes say at noon compare to maybe 400w halides. DOC

[SAT]

I've been doing some research on this topic myself, with the intent of putting a trio of 21" tubes over an ~300G reef we're building into a new house. The intention is for this to be the primary lighting, with just enough supplemental electric light for evening viewing.

If you believe the manufacturer's claims, a 13" tube is equivalent to approximately 100W of flourescent or MH lighting (Sun Pipe claims 300-500W of incandescent, which would be a bit more). A 21" tube should be equivalent to a good 250W MH bulb. The part that's unclear is the conditions where this is true. I would hope this is average for a mid-latitude clear day. If so, the peak noon-time output could be double that.

Looking at it another way, if 50% of the light that hits the dome is delivered over the tank, and if I'm expecting a 21" tube to light 4 square feet, I'll be getting 30% of full sunlight hitting the top of the tank. According to a diagram in Adey's book, the intensity here in Pennsylvania averages about 2/3 of tropical, so I'd be getting about 20% of full tropical sunlight --- maybe more like 25% in June and 15% in December. Even at 15%, that's probably brighter than a 10m deep reef gets in the tropics.

A net search will yield at least half a dozen sources for tubular skylights. For best results you want one that delivers the most light through the tube. The most efficient tubes go straight down with no bends and have very high reflectance on the walls. Since the light will reflect multiple times on the walls, a difference of a few percentage points in reflectance can have a dramatic effect. Some have an acrylic dome, which is less likely to yellow than other plastics. Some also offer a reflective collar that dramatically increases the light when the sun is at a low angle (e.g., in December). I'm planning to use Sun Pipe, which seems to have all the right features.

I have a quote to install a pair of 13" Sun Pipe tubes for $680 to go over a refugium. That's new construction, so I would expect an add-on to be more. The advantage of a 13" tube is it fits neatly between your rafters. I have no idea what my 21" tubes will cost... that's buried somewhere in the cost of the house. Assuming each 13" tube saves annually about $50 in electricity and $50 in fancy light bulbs, the 13" tubes will pay for themselves in about 3-4 years.

[David Corbett]

Sun Pipe's web site says the 13" models average output for a sunny day in Chicago in June is 750 watts, WOW, 250 watts in Dec. On cloudy days according to thier graphs the light level actually ramps up faster but peaks lower. They say the 21" model puts out 3000 watts, holy blowfish batman! The graphs are very encouraging, if accurate they show very immpressive light levels like 2800 watts at noon for a 13" and an acceptible level of out put for a good portion of the day. I just have to figure out how to work these into one of my setups.

[Ltspd]

I know I will be looking further into these, IMO this is a cost savings on larger tanks and the yearly savings would be very benifical compared to burning halides. Still I think that the use of halides and the sun pipes is a must, I also wonder how well actinics would do in conjuction with natural sunlight.

I think that it would be possilbe to "tube" down into a canopy style hood provided the structure of the ceiling allowed.

[matt_rogers]

wow, what a great idea - solar tubes! oh that gets me thinking... maybe some tubes on the tank and a refugium in the greehouse?!?
cudaman your tank sounds great.

[LiquidShaneo]

Ok...I'm going to ask an obvious question here: WHY would you need/want a set of SolarTubes in a greenhouse of all places? I mean it's already lit by the sun...

FWIW, when I move to a better location I'm definitely going to investigate this for my tanks.

Shane

[matt_rogers]

the tubes would be in my living room. the greenhouse is attached, but would be too much light and heat for the tank i would think, at least in the summer.

[Niven]

The Irony of it all

I just saw this post last Friday for the first time. I work as a mortgage broker and worked at this home and garden show this weekend. Well I went in there on Sat morning to see that Brighter Concepts Ltd - Solatude Tubular Skylights was right next to me! I had a break in the middle of the day, so I went and printed this out. When I had the chance, I talked to the sales guy, they were pretty busy. I showed this to him and he kind of just brushed it off (I think us addicted reefers scare people sometimes) He said it might be a decent market for them to get into. He didn't get a chance to read through all the post though. I did get a price list. To install a 10" solatube with a 2' tube it was $410, 4' tube $455, 12' tube $635. If you install yoursef, 4' tube $280, 6' tube $322. This is just to give you an idea, there were other options for sizes, length, fans and light fixtures to use at night. Seems very cool, but I want to see one in a home on a daily basis, before I would do it....especially in Wisconsin
HTH,
Gareth

[EdKruzel]

I just ran across this thread today. About 5yrs ago, here in El Paso I set up a 300 gallon for a friend and his family. We used 3 21'' tubes spaced evenly over his tank.

On the roof the tops are a bubble cap with a reflective dish pointing south. Light is reflected down the tube from sun up to sun down.
He had low wattage incandescent placed in the tubes that come on for evening viewing, however we don't get much cloud coverage in the Sun City and the moonlight usually overpowers the bulbs.
The tank is mostly SPS with a few huge LPS. Incredible colors on all the corals.

As a side note, he had a contractor cover the tubes with ceiling "popcorn" (texture) to match the walls and ceiling.

[Ltspd]

EdKruzel, was there a need to supplement the natural sunlight with actinic's? Seems like it could be yellowish with natural only

[ShipMate]

And....I'm still waiting to see some pics!....

[EdKruzel]

Hey L,
No actinics were used. The water had a clear white look, and the corals had great colors, but not quite that florescent shine/glow.

It was a very unique project that I wish I could have used in my present home. The tank location makes that impossible for my use.
I'm designing a new home and will build a fish room into the back.
2000+ gallons and natural lighting. I plan on using many of the ideas I read about from Richard Harker in the reef annual, minus all the really bad ideas he kept.
The idea of natural lighting was driven to me by Albert Thiel, of Thiel Aquatec.

Albert Thiel was a neighbor of mine and a friend. We discussed lighting issues on many occasions. One theory he had was to use fiber optics. Something I plan on pursuing. He left Las Cruses for Georgia and reefers here in the desert lost a friend and a great source of information.

Good Luck

[salt lick]

HiCudaman,
I am very interested in Solatubes, and was concerned about a couple of things. Is the bottom open on your installation? Is there any corrosion on the silver lining? Does moisture condensate inside the top dome?

".... so I removed the U.V. protector that was on the tubes ......"
I contacted Solatube customer service, and the guy told me the UV protection is built into the top acrylic dome. What did you remove? The bottom diffuser?

We would love to see a picture.

Bob

[DgenR8]

Originally posted by EdKruzel

Albert Thiel was a neighbor of mine and a friend. We discussed lighting issues on many occasions. One theory he had was to use fiber optics. Something I plan on pursuing. He left Las Cruses for Georgia and reefers here in the desert lost a friend and a great source of information.

Good Luck

HMMMMMM..... Fiber Optics, I think that might just deserve a thread of it's own.
I have some experience with Fiber Optic accent lighting. If this system can deliver the intensity we want, just think of the benefits of "no heat" lighting........

[Ltspd]

Originally posted by DgenR8


HMMMMMM..... Fiber Optics, I think that might just deserve a thread of it's own.
I have some experience with Fiber Optic accent lighting. If this system can deliver the intensity we want, just think of the benefits of "no heat" lighting........

But are fiber optics cost effective? Seems like it could be more expensive?

[chapman_jim]

Yes, I've started to look into using fiber for transmitting light from the roof down to the tank, but my preliminary inquiries suggest that the cost would be very high compared to the solar tubes. Also, there are issues of full spectrum transmission. Most fiber, and certainly not the more affordable stuff I'm told, is not designed to transmit white light so while the overall attenuation may not be too bad, you would suffer greater attenuation of certain frequencies meaning you would lose that "full natural sunlight" benefit.

I think cost is the reason that companies like Solatube and the others stay in business even though the use of fiber in lighting systems is getting pretty well established for specialty applications.

I'm still researching, though. I'm not an optical technician so I have to rely on what the various sales people tell me. Frisco should weigh in on this (if he posts on this board, I forget).

[duh, just noticed Frisco is a mod, sorry]

-Jim

[chapman_jim]

I was wondering why each of you chose the vendor you did for your tubes (SAT, I understand you haven't bought yet)? 440cudaman, why SolaTube? And SAT, why Sun Pipe? I looked at both products and the specs seem pretty competitive. I like SolaTubes 14" option a little better than Sun Pipes 13" just 'cause it's a little bigger, and should offer about 20 sq. in. more pipe for the light to come through. That's only about 15% though.

Your reasons?

-Jim

[SAT]

Originally posted by chapman_jim
I was wondering why each of you chose the vendor you did for your tubes (SAT, I understand you haven't bought yet)? 440cudaman, why SolaTube? And SAT, why Sun Pipe? I looked at both products and the specs seem pretty competitive. I like SolaTubes 14" option a little better than Sun Pipes 13" just 'cause it's a little bigger, and should offer about 20 sq. in. more pipe for the light to come through. That's only about 15% though.

Your reasons?

-Jim

Jim,

I actually have purchased... but the house isn't finished yet, so no useful experience.

My reading of the web sites convinced me that Sun Pipe would deliver more light than an equivalent from SolaTube and others. That's based partly on their language... they're clearly competing on that basis. The other brands compete mainly on their installation flexibility and other options. Sun Pipe also claims 97% reflectance, which is the highest of anyone. SolaTube claims 92-95%.

A few percent might not seem like much until you realized that light entering the center of the tube at 45 degress will reflect L/D times, where L is the length and D is the diameter. Light going down a 10' x 21" tube will reflect ~6 times. At 95% reflectance you get a yield of 73%. At 97% reflectance you get 83%. Light hitting off center will reflect more, so the difference could actually be greater than that.

Your best efficiency is for a tube that goes straight down, which is all Sun Pipe will do. In my installation that's no problem. If you need more flexibility in your installation you should choose a different brand. SolaTube has a way to "jog" their rigid tube. Sun Tunnel is actually a corrogated flexible tube (not very efficient but very easy to install).

My choice was made primarily for the 21" tubes going over the main tank. The 13" tubes are sort of an afterthought and we just went with the same brand. Whether the 14" SolaTube will yield more light would be an interesting experiment.

[Tafabub]

Why in gods name would you want to change it to 10K? You'd be reducing the intensity and blocking out a lot of light! If you want it more blue, throw in a few actinic VHO's.

Buba

[SAT]

I thought about changing it to 10K. The reason would be to make the colors look more natural, which means removing the reds & oranges, not just adding monochromatic blue. An 80C photographic filter would do the job. Kodak makes a gel filter in a 9x14 size. The trouble is they cost $236 each (at B&H) and I would need a whole bunch of them. Yes, you lose about 1/2 the light when you do that... but you would get true 10K light w. a CRI of nearly 100... which would be awesome. No artifical light comes close.