Sorry, no refund

[hypermikie]

Originally posted by cw3561
Yeah I understand the business only side of the story but I also think that a blanket policy may be a little tough. I'm from the school of thought that you should take care of your customers and consider that sometimes a blanket policy burns some one who really has ran into a problem. So i'm kinda mad about it but at the same time I understand their side also. I do feel how ever that sometimes you need to bend the rules and by doing so they will have a customer for life. As it stands now I will never spend another dime in that store again.

As a person who manages/runs a local business (not a LFS), how does one determine when to bend the rules?

How do you determine "who really has ran into a problem" and who is just making a sob story because they had second thoughts?

This is truly the problem, and most likely why they have made this a cut & dry rule. They have to remove the emotional aspect or they will end up getting screwed and taken advantage of by the less than reputable.

[Blindmelonbob]

You could ask them if it's even shipped yet. If not, they're not out anything yet. Right?

[ambaratur]

How much time do you spend in this LFS? My LFS is so good that they shout my name when I go in - somewhat like Norm on Cheers. I really like that and I sometimes get special treatment - but I do not require it. I follow their policies and they explain them very clearly up front. Example: If a marine fish dies after I purchase it they have no guarantee and I do not expect them to replace it.

I also understand that my LFS has to make a profit on things. How many 120g tanks do you think they sell in a year? I know my LFS makes a lot more money off of 55g and other more regular tanks. If they sold a lot of 120s they would have had them in stock.

You signed the contract that specifically said you understood the policy - I think they owe you nothing. If you are a good customer I would bet they would extend you store credit but I don't think you should expect it. Why should their business suffer for your life challenges? They already suffer their own challenges and I would not think they should have to suffer for their customers.

Also - they did you a favor of not having you pay for the whole thing up front - maybe you should be thankful you only lost 20% of the cost. They "trusted" you to purchase the item and you backed out.

Sorry to rant - but this is entirely your fault and not theirs.

[reefpeep2004]

I fail to see why the problem that YOU "ran into" should in any way become THEIR problem? That's what you're really intimating when you say they should bend the rules to keep you happy.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by ambaratur

Also - they did you a favor of not having you pay for the whole thing up front - maybe you should be thankful you only lost 20% of the cost. They "trusted" you to purchase the item and you backed out.

Sorry to rant - but this is entirely your fault and not theirs.

Thats totally crap, and totally not valid.

If he'd paid the whole thing up front, the tank would be in his livingroom, and there would be no issue here.

Also, unless they have some specific time frame speciifed in the document he signed, if they sell the tank, they need to give him his deposit back. Contracts go both ways. The deposit holds the tank. If they dont hold it, they can't hold his deposit.

[sloshesv]

good thread

[austin552]

There seems to be lots of lessons learned in this hobby. For me anyway.
Aescleah, I am not not that far from you.

[ambaratur]

... If he'd paid the whole thing up front, the tank would be in his livingroom, and there would be no issue here.

Also, unless they have some specific time frame speciifed in the document he signed, if they sell the tank, they need to give him his deposit back. Contracts go both ways. The deposit holds the tank. If they dont hold it, they can't hold his deposit.

I agree - if he had paid in full up front there would be no issue. The issue is because the total was not paid. And the customer signed a paper that clearly identified the fact that the deposit would not be returned - really at this point there can be no more arguement. Period.

If they had any intention of returning that money they would not have had the paper. I bet that this whole policy came about by too many customers ordering things and then sticking the LFS for them because they change their minds or "something suddenly came up".

The other part of your point is valid about how long the grace period may be - but we of course have only 1 side of the story here and we do not have the text of the contract to validate. The original poster was saying it was going to take months to be ready for the tank now and I doubt the contract would have been written to provide months of time in which to pay.

The LFS has to protect itself.

[IPowderBlueTang]

My friend run a home base saltwater coral shop, what ****es him off is people go to his place and buy corals and ask him to order a certain coral and when it arrives he calls them for pickup. Some people tell him later after it is in, that they change their mind, or are not interested in purchasing the coral.
He spent time chasing down the coral and paying to get it shipped and ends up stuck with it, until some else decides to buy it. If he made them put a down payment I think people would be more serious about picking up their special orders or lose their down payment. They would show it for pickup!

[IanInDC]

But... doesn't now own 20% of the tank?

How can they sell it to someone else?

[RichConley]

Originally posted by ambaratur

The other part of your point is valid about how long the grace period may be - but we of course have only 1 side of the story here and we do not have the text of the contract to validate. The original poster was saying it was going to take months to be ready for the tank now and I doubt the contract would have been written to provide months of time in which to pay.

The LFS has to protect itself.

Exactly, but if theres no grace period stated (because LFS generally dont contact lawyers to draft these thigns up), then they are just as bound by the deposit as he is.

[ambaratur]

Originally posted by RichConley
Exactly, but if theres no grace period stated (because LFS generally dont contact lawyers to draft these thigns up), then they are just as bound by the deposit as he is.

I would accept that arguement.

[ambaratur]

Originally posted by IanInDC
But... doesn't now own 20% of the tank?

How can they sell it to someone else?

I think it all depends on the exact wording of the contract.

[festus]

Originally posted by IanInDC
But... doesn't now own 20% of the tank?

How can they sell it to someone else?

Most contracts state very clearly that if the purchase is not made in full within X days of delivery of the ordered item the deposit will be retained as "liquidated damages" or somesuch.

The store is perfectly correct here. The financial problems of their customers are not their problem.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by festus
Most contracts state very clearly that if the purchase is not made in full within X days of delivery of the ordered item the deposit will be retained as "liquidated damages" or somesuch.

The store is perfectly correct here. The financial problems of their customers are not their problem.

Right, but I've seen plenty of LFS that dont have that in their special order contracts.

All this is crap unless we see the actual wording.

[cw3561]

Sorry, I've been away for a few days. In response to some of the posts. I havn't shopped at this lfs very much because i've done all my business with the other lfs in town. The thing I signed was the order reciept with a stamp on it. The stamp said, 20% non refundable deposit. No contract or time limit. I asked if they could check and see if the tank was already built because if it wasn't then no one was out anything. The reply was, "we will call you when it comes in". As if I will change my mind when that happens. Maybe when they make that call and I still can't pay for it thay might try to work something out. I personally think that if they sell it to some one else then they should consider returning the deposit. If they don't sell it to any one then I understand keeping it. It is only $140 and it is a lesson learned.

[crab0000]

They may sell it for 20% off to move it fast Why didn't you get it from the LFS that you frequent?

[cw3561]

crab0000. The price of the tank was $200 cheaper. That's pretty much the botom line. Now I guess it's only $50 cheaper

[sloshes]

It'd be a very good customer relation move to give you store credit when the sell it. good luck.

[phil5613]

The LFS was being upfront and honest and is doing its best to fulfill their end of the contract. All this "grace period " stuff is just being underhanded. Lets spin this a new way if the price of the tank would have gone up between order and delivery time can the store raise the price? With gas prices going crazy this is a legitimate arguement. You signed a contract and cant fulfill your end you lose your deposit sorry. Now if you can't make a deal because you are a self admitted infrequent shopper why should the store eat the cost of your personal issues? If 20 % is such a big deal to you why shouldnt it be to them also? The threat of not shopping there isnt a big one to them because you already dont shop there much. They might be seeing you as a difficult customer and losing you isnt a high concern for them. Does the store know what your personal issue is? Without knowing what your personal reasons are I would have to side with the store. So far they are operating in good faith.

[cw3561]

What better way to make an "infrequent " shopper a shopper for life by at least making an attempt to be understanding and complete the sale? But then again there is the business is business attitude. No room for error and no ability for compassion. Cut your throat before you cut mine. Harsh and to the point, perriod. I know I signed it and understand it but I just don't see things totally black and white when it comes to customer service. I'm thinking about telling them to go out and have a nice dinner on me when they call to tell me the tank came in. It would be worth it at this point to no longer bother with it and never have to speak to them again.

[mjdlonghorn]

cw3561 I would not want to do bussiness with you. I almost always side with the merchant on issues like this. Since we are on the subject I thought I would share a story I read in my management class. This kind of taught me a lesson in business.

A couple had put a down payment for a wedding reception at a local restaurant. When the bride died suddenly, the restaurant refused to return the deposit. They did have a contract afterall. The story got picked up by a local news station and within 2 weeks the restaurant was out of business, because of the bad press.

That is the only circumstance where you might have a case. Otherwise I would tell you to get lost.

[cardgenius]

Have you talked to them about getting some kind of credit? I can see their point of view, but if there not willing to work with you, I would never shop there again either.

I work in a pawn shop and we get this ALL the time. You can usually tell if someone is trying to B.S. you, but to keep the customer happy and too keep coming back, we will work out a deal with them.

I think thats the least they can do for you. If not, dont waste your time or money with them.

[phil5613]

So in asking for compassion you would understand if they raise the price for raised delivery costs or actual raise in price on the tank? The thing to realize is LFS make the least on large tanks due to competion. If this store was $200 less then the others they gave you a great price at the cost of their own markup so they now gave you 2 deals or specials...1 they gave you a great price and 2 were honest and upfront with you about their policy.

[leeweber85]

Maybe you should charge it. I hate to say it because I am firmly against them, but if you are positive you can pay for it in 4-5 months... get a credit card with no interest for 3 or 6 months or whatever they are.