Why does a tank with Live rock accumulate Nitrate?!?! - Page 2

omni2226 · 05/17/2006, 04:53 PM

It makes this hobby fun, all the diffrent ideas and opinions. Be kinda boring if there was only one way to do things dont ya think?

So go on, be a heretic. I promise to use only the best gasoline when we burn ya at the stake.

Amphiprion · 05/17/2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tomzpc
I have very little "visible" life in and around my rocks probably because of my fish choices over the years. I don't necessarily agree with the premise that water has to be moved through the rock by animals in order for it to reach anaerobic areas. I recall Dr. Shimek making that statement in an article awhile back. I feel that strong currents such as we have in a reef tank will do the trick.

BTW, I also think that DSB's add more nutrients to a system than they remove and I don't know diddly about biology so obviously my comments are heresy anyway. LOL. But I do know that many reefers agree with me. It just isn't apparent in this thread.

What you are saying is not heresy--merely incomplete. Yes, water circulation does help reach some areas, but not quite to the extent as smaller organisms can deep within the rock. Both good flow and animal diversity are important in this situation, as they bring both nutrients for bacterial action and waste/dead bacteria from various pores. As far as the DSB thing goes, there are too many variables involved that would determine the success or failure of such an analog that it would be difficult to discuss and, in many cases, replicate.

omni2226 · 05/17/2006, 06:45 PM

The sand bed thing is new to me. I have kept many freshwater tanks and nitrates are dealt with by the plants. In cichlid tanks heavy duty filters and mega water changes.

I kept a marine tank for about 18 months but it had no rocks or sand, just crushedcoral/oyster shell with a undergravel filter.

No corals just one lonely Lion fish. Im open for ideas and new things. I did a lot reading and decide on a deep sand bed this time but I may try a barebottom setup on the next large tank.

Im not quite brave enough or yet know enough to pull the sand in this one. If it aint broke dont fix it, and mine aint broken yet.

First I want to get a 29 seahorse tank going with black sand and,,,,well thats in the future.

zeuss zoso · 05/17/2006, 09:07 PM

I have high nitrates on my 60gallon. I have 2 canister filters, and several scattered powerheads. Do you think the canisters are making higher nitrates. I am going to add a sump/ fuge but would rather not because I have to dril the tank with everthing in it.
Alex

zeuss zoso · 05/17/2006, 09:09 PM

I am wondering why I have such high nitrates. Around 20-40ppm. I have two canister filters, and several powerheads. Could the mechanical filtration in the canister be a nitrate factory? The algae problem is bad, I have to scrape glass every day. That tank has been up for 3 and a half months. I have 5 fish, and 5 corals. Think I should add a fuge? I am seriously considering adding a sump, and using the canister filters just for filtration and taking everything out of them. Alex

Amphiprion · 05/17/2006, 09:11 PM

The mechanical filtration, if not cleaned or replaced very regularly, will lend to the problem. You may also want to back off on feeding a bit. Do you have a protein skimmer? A refugium can also help, as well.

zeuss zoso · 05/17/2006, 09:20 PM

i have a seaclone 100 and i feed everday one cube of mysis or spirulina

Amphiprion · 05/17/2006, 09:26 PM

I don't think you should have to feed everyday with the fish you have. I would reduce to every other day for the time being. You may even want to try every two days (just watch the fish and make sure they maintain their weight). Is the seaclone working well for you? You may want to consider a different skimmer, such as the coralife super skimmers.

zeuss zoso · 05/17/2006, 09:30 PM

I have 2 tangs, kole and yellow. They need a lot of food. The seaclone is kinda crummy. Lol. It is fine, once I get my fuge. I think it will help tons, and I am going to have about 800 gph more of flow once i add it.

boxfishpooalot · 05/18/2006, 04:02 AM

It all comes down to the density of rock(how many holes inside it) .

mthedude · 05/18/2006, 07:04 AM

Tomzpc, are you saying in 10 years of reef keeping you have had no form of nutrient export other than your Live Rock and your nitrates are undectable?

I think we're all in agreement and we just don't realize it. If there is anyone running a reef tank with no DSB, no fuge, no skimmer and only rely on Live Rock for filtration I'd like to see it and would love to know what thier Nitrate reading is. We don't just add skimmers to add oxygen to the water and we don't have refugiums just to watch the pods play all day, our live rock needs those extra support systems to help complete the cycle and remove nitrates from our systems.

boxfishpooalot · 05/20/2006, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zeuss zoso
I have high nitrates on my 60gallon. I have 2 canister filters, and several scattered powerheads. Do you think the canisters are making higher nitrates. I am going to add a sump/ fuge but would rather not because I have to dril the tank with everthing in it.
Alex

What kind of sand? Fwiw crushed coral is a bad size to perform denitrication.

Ovaltine · 05/25/2006, 05:24 AM

two words, seachem purigen, absolutely the best stuff to come out in years, buy it in the bags, last 6 months and can be reenergized easily. this stuff takes nitrite and nitrate down to zero. plus it takes a whole host of other things out of the tank water. it's the best stuff to come out in years. buy it in the bags and drop it in your sump under the eggcrate holding the bioballs. in a week you'll see nitrates disapear. try two little bags for your size tank. i swear by this stuff. if you don't get o nitrite and nitrate in a week, then you must have your toilet plumbed into your tank without knowing. that's how good this stuff is.

05/17/2006, 04:53 PM	#26
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	It makes this hobby fun, all the diffrent ideas and opinions. Be kinda boring if there was only one way to do things dont ya think? So go on, be a heretic. I promise to use only the best gasoline when we burn ya at the stake. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/17/2006, 06:45 PM	#28
omni2226 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Middle Florida Posts: 774	The sand bed thing is new to me. I have kept many freshwater tanks and nitrates are dealt with by the plants. In cichlid tanks heavy duty filters and mega water changes. I kept a marine tank for about 18 months but it had no rocks or sand, just crushedcoral/oyster shell with a undergravel filter. No corals just one lonely Lion fish. Im open for ideas and new things. I did a lot reading and decide on a deep sand bed this time but I may try a barebottom setup on the next large tank. Im not quite brave enough or yet know enough to pull the sand in this one. If it aint broke dont fix it, and mine aint broken yet. First I want to get a 29 seahorse tank going with black sand and,,,,well thats in the future. __________________ I know enough to know I know nothing. Current Tank Info: 55 Marine. 29 Freshwater planted.

05/17/2006, 09:07 PM	#29
zeuss zoso Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South Bay, 90275 Posts: 185	I have high nitrates on my 60gallon. I have 2 canister filters, and several scattered powerheads. Do you think the canisters are making higher nitrates. I am going to add a sump/ fuge but would rather not because I have to dril the tank with everthing in it. Alex __________________ 60 Gallon Clear-For-Life 390w PC lighting Kole Tang Yellow Tang Maroon Clownfish Bi-Color Blenny Firefish 10 Turbo Snails 20 Margarita Snails 10 Hermit Crabs Blue Green Mushrooms Assorted zoanthids Colt Coral Favites spp. Current Tank Info: 60g Mega-Reef

05/17/2006, 09:09 PM	#30
zeuss zoso Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South Bay, 90275 Posts: 185	I am wondering why I have such high nitrates. Around 20-40ppm. I have two canister filters, and several powerheads. Could the mechanical filtration in the canister be a nitrate factory? The algae problem is bad, I have to scrape glass every day. That tank has been up for 3 and a half months. I have 5 fish, and 5 corals. Think I should add a fuge? I am seriously considering adding a sump, and using the canister filters just for filtration and taking everything out of them. Alex __________________ 60 Gallon Clear-For-Life 390w PC lighting Kole Tang Yellow Tang Maroon Clownfish Bi-Color Blenny Firefish 10 Turbo Snails 20 Margarita Snails 10 Hermit Crabs Blue Green Mushrooms Assorted zoanthids Colt Coral Favites spp. Current Tank Info: 60g Mega-Reef

05/17/2006, 09:11 PM	#31
Amphiprion Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 6,611	The mechanical filtration, if not cleaned or replaced very regularly, will lend to the problem. You may also want to back off on feeding a bit. Do you have a protein skimmer? A refugium can also help, as well. __________________ You've done it now, haven't you? Current Tank Info: 40g breeder patch reef w/ seagrass; 2-250w XM 10K; Vortech MP40wES & MP10wES; BM Curve 7 skimmer; carbon & occasional GFO

05/17/2006, 09:20 PM	#32
zeuss zoso Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South Bay, 90275 Posts: 185	i have a seaclone 100 and i feed everday one cube of mysis or spirulina __________________ 60 Gallon Clear-For-Life 390w PC lighting Kole Tang Yellow Tang Maroon Clownfish Bi-Color Blenny Firefish 10 Turbo Snails 20 Margarita Snails 10 Hermit Crabs Blue Green Mushrooms Assorted zoanthids Colt Coral Favites spp. Current Tank Info: 60g Mega-Reef

05/17/2006, 09:26 PM	#33
Amphiprion Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 6,611	I don't think you should have to feed everyday with the fish you have. I would reduce to every other day for the time being. You may even want to try every two days (just watch the fish and make sure they maintain their weight). Is the seaclone working well for you? You may want to consider a different skimmer, such as the coralife super skimmers. __________________ You've done it now, haven't you? Current Tank Info: 40g breeder patch reef w/ seagrass; 2-250w XM 10K; Vortech MP40wES & MP10wES; BM Curve 7 skimmer; carbon & occasional GFO

05/17/2006, 09:30 PM	#34
zeuss zoso Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: South Bay, 90275 Posts: 185	I have 2 tangs, kole and yellow. They need a lot of food. The seaclone is kinda crummy. Lol. It is fine, once I get my fuge. I think it will help tons, and I am going to have about 800 gph more of flow once i add it. __________________ 60 Gallon Clear-For-Life 390w PC lighting Kole Tang Yellow Tang Maroon Clownfish Bi-Color Blenny Firefish 10 Turbo Snails 20 Margarita Snails 10 Hermit Crabs Blue Green Mushrooms Assorted zoanthids Colt Coral Favites spp. Current Tank Info: 60g Mega-Reef

05/18/2006, 04:02 AM	#35
boxfishpooalot Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: canada, Grande Praire, Ab Posts: 5,824	It all comes down to the density of rock(how many holes inside it) . __________________ Its a good idea to have a refrence sample for alk test kits. 1.1350 grams of baking soda in 1gallon of distilled water=10dkh. Check your alkalinity test kit! Algae is Mother Natures phosphate remover Current Tank Info: 220 galon mixed reef.

05/18/2006, 07:04 AM	#36
mthedude Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 549	Tomzpc, are you saying in 10 years of reef keeping you have had no form of nutrient export other than your Live Rock and your nitrates are undectable? I think we're all in agreement and we just don't realize it. If there is anyone running a reef tank with no DSB, no fuge, no skimmer and only rely on Live Rock for filtration I'd like to see it and would love to know what thier Nitrate reading is. We don't just add skimmers to add oxygen to the water and we don't have refugiums just to watch the pods play all day, our live rock needs those extra support systems to help complete the cycle and remove nitrates from our systems. __________________ You........Cake or Death? I'll have the cake please.... ....well we're outta cake! Current Tank Info: 55g Reef Tank, scooter blenny, tail spot blenny, cleaner shrimp, button polyps, fuzzy mushrooms, hammer coral, multi color zoos, 10 gal fuge, Octopus NW150

05/25/2006, 05:24 AM	#38
Ovaltine Moved On Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 22	two words, seachem purigen, absolutely the best stuff to come out in years, buy it in the bags, last 6 months and can be reenergized easily. this stuff takes nitrite and nitrate down to zero. plus it takes a whole host of other things out of the tank water. it's the best stuff to come out in years. buy it in the bags and drop it in your sump under the eggcrate holding the bioballs. in a week you'll see nitrates disapear. try two little bags for your size tank. i swear by this stuff. if you don't get o nitrite and nitrate in a week, then you must have your toilet plumbed into your tank without knowing. that's how good this stuff is. Last edited by mhurley; 05/25/2006 at 07:58 AM.