240 Inwall Construction (Image Intense) - Page 20

jwedehase · 10/06/2005, 11:07 PM

I'm not Weatherson, but I'd vote for the 150w 6500. My gut feeling is that growth will be better, but even if it's not, the cost of running the bulb will be less. We're only talking a couple of bucks per month, but it all adds up.

weatherson · 10/07/2005, 09:10 AM

McGinnis: You are welcome. My refugium is 20-gallons. If you plan to keep an SPS dominant tank, I wouldn't suggest any smaller a refugium for a main tank of this size. I've been very pleased with my refugium's performance and have no issues of any nuisance algae and no detectable nitrite, nitrate or phosphate. Of course there are many other factors that help to contribute to this such as a good sized and efficient skimmer with ozone, plenty of flow, carbon/Phosban use and regular, persistent maintenance.

selgado: Zip ties and the triangulated inside corner braces seen in the photo.

melev: Actually, there's only a couple snails and crabs each in there. The only real algae growth in there is when a small piece of Chaeto gets through from the refugium and sets up home. Those get relocated back into the refugium.

Other than this, it stays algae free. I've been thinking of and will probably add a Tiger Tail for the sand bed but will need to add an egg crate barrier on the left to prevent any possible cucumber puree.

bheron: I'm very pleased with my sand bed and yes, it's only 3" deep on average. Aesthetically, I couldn't do without it. Enough said.

NexDog: Growth rate? I feel that would be a toss-up. PAR is probably pretty close between those so it comes down to if you want to throw a little more money at it to have slightly better coloration (10K over 6.5K) in your frags. My priority is to achieve the best growth at the expense of coral coloration as cheaply as possible. I use enough electricity elsewhere and it isn't exactly cheap here in California.

Another factor is how large a grow-out system you plan to keep. The 150 isn't going to allow for anything much larger than the size of mine for SPS corals.

Joseph

beachroadbum · 10/07/2005, 09:19 AM

amazing thread...an amazing tank...!!!

McGinnis · 10/07/2005, 09:58 AM

Jospeh,
Thanks for the advice. In my designs down the road I will incorporate a refugium of that size into the system. What sort of lighting do you use over the fuge? Is this another metal halide?

Thanks again

weatherson · 10/07/2005, 10:06 AM

jaredt: Thanks and thanks.

McGinnis: You are welcome. Yes, it's an Iwasaki 150-watt, SE 6500K driven by an IceCap electronic ballast. In addition, it's on a reverse cycle from the main tank.

Joseph

McGinnis · 10/07/2005, 10:34 AM

Joseph
Is there an advantage to having the light to the fuge on that sort of schedule? Is there a reason why having the light to the fuge on when the main tank lights are off is beneficial to the system? Just curious. Thanks for the quick reply by the way.

NexDog · 10/07/2005, 10:37 AM

Thanks for the advice, Joseph.

weatherson · 10/07/2005, 12:12 PM

McGinnis: Yes. It helps to stabilize the tank's PH due to photosynthesis. Basically, it helps to lower carbon dioxide and raise oxygen levels in what is normally a time of just the opposite in the main tank.

NexDog: You are welcome.

Joseph

McGinnis · 10/07/2005, 12:40 PM

Joseph,
Thanks for the information, now I am being to understand the reasoning a bit more. So basically, the fluctuation in pH is reduced during the night, so the overall pH is more stable...is that correct?

Also, you mentioned your water quality can be helped by having your skimmer hooked up to the ozone, why is this? Don't want to redirect the thread, so feel free not to answer.

DerekW · 10/07/2005, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by weatherson
McGinnis: Yes. It helps to stabilize the tank's PH due to photosynthesis. Basically, it helps to lower carbon dioxide and raise oxygen levels in what is normally a time of just the opposite in the main tank.
Joseph

It would help offset some heat as well

weatherson · 10/07/2005, 08:54 PM

McGinnis: Yes, you've got it.

Regarding the use of ozone, it can help to clarify the water due to its oxidation properties. Basically, it oxidizes some organic matter in the water which allows the skimmer to better remove it from the water. But... ozone should always be used in moderation. Over-use can be as detrimental as proper use can be beneficial.

DerekW: Very good point.

Joseph

McGinnis · 10/10/2005, 07:02 AM

Joseph,
Thanks for the information again! Between you and Marc (Melev) I have learned a considerable amount! You guys deserve a lot of credit for being so knowledgable, and so willing to help others.

Thanks

bcoons · 10/15/2005, 07:38 PM

Well, it's taken me over a week, but I just finished reading through the first 119 pages of this thread in the first part, and just had to jump here to the end of this one. I read every word of every post, and it was all well worth it.

What an amazing experience. I have been doing fresh water aquariums about three years. I've wanted to try salt water, so I've been studying books and reading on the internet for a couple of months now. I have set up my first marine tank (a 20 gal long) just two weeks ago with my first batch of salt water and 20 lb of cured live rock. I put my first fish in today, a single clownfish. We'll see how it goes.

While waiting for the tank to stabilze about a week ago I found this thread. Started at post one. This thread has been more educational and inspirational to me than any book or anything else I could have done. As an engineer, and chronic tinkerer, I am in awe of Weatherson's talents and skills. And planning. And execution. Just Damn!

I'll probably never have the tank Joseph has, but I will have something bigger and better than my current little 20 gal. And when I do I am going to try to make it as elegant, efficient, interesting, and clean a system as I have seen here. I have a model to follow. But talk about a tough act to follow.......

Thanks, Weatherson, for the thread and the journey. I hope this thread continues for a long time, and I can come back and say I have started something half as good as yours.

Bruce

McGinnis · 10/16/2005, 09:15 AM

Hey Joseph,
I have a sump that I want to place a bulkhead into, unfortunately I have no experience working with acrylic. How do you suggest I make the hole? Can I use a hole saw, or is this too crude a method? Thanks for the help.

tdool · 10/16/2005, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by McGinnis
Hey Joseph,
I have a sump that I want to place a bulkhead into, unfortunately I have no experience working with acrylic. How do you suggest I make the hole? Can I use a hole saw, or is this too crude a method? Thanks for the help.

Hole saw works great. Gives you a perfect hole

weatherson · 11/01/2005, 12:26 AM

It's been a while since my last post here (sorry for the delay) so I thought I would do a quick update. But first...

McGinnis: You are welcome and it's my pleasure to help. tdool is spot on in his advice. Thanks.

bcoons: You too are very welcome and thank you for the very kind words.

OK... I took a new full tank shot today and thought it would be interesting to view growth rates from the shot I took almost exactly a month prior. These shots are slightly off from each other and I did move a few corals but if you look at certain corals in both photos, you can easily see the rate of growth. Here you go...

melev · 11/01/2005, 12:49 AM

I like that. You can really see the difference. Even the returns in the center of the tank have been growing.

McGinnis · 11/01/2005, 07:14 AM

Joseph,
I have said it once and will say it again, that really is a beautiful tank! Great job setting up the comparison in an overlay format. Really nice job.

I have been steadily acquiring new equipment for my tank, so in the next few weeks I will hopefully be getting underway! Marc has been a huge help to me via email, taking time to answer novice questions is probably not what he wants to be doing, but he does anyhow. You guys both deserve credit for taking the time further the hobby along to newcomers! Thanks

melev · 11/01/2005, 01:16 PM

It is no problem. Matter of fact, it is a good way to get to know the person behind the username. When you start your own thread about your tank, be sure to send me the link and I'll subscribe for the duration.

weatherson · 11/01/2005, 02:18 PM

Marc: Yes, it's amazing what calcium additions can do for plastic.

Mathew: Thanks again and please do provide a link to your upcoming thread. Just keep in mind, however, that Marc is a hack and take his advice with a grain of synthetic salt.

Seriously, you couldn't ask for a better mentor to have at your side for your upcoming adventure than Mr. Levenson.

Joseph

melev · 11/01/2005, 02:31 PM

Everything I've learned was stolen from Joseph. So he's your guy.

(Why does Matthew think of himself as a ping pong ball all of a sudden?)

McGinnis · 11/01/2005, 03:51 PM

Marc,
You got that right, but one way or the other I think I will end up in good shape regardless of which one of you is going to take the credit...I am just fortunate enough that you both are willing to help. That is the real key for success in this hobby, being able learn from others and get help from more experienced people when times are tough.

Bemmer · 11/02/2005, 03:53 PM

Hi Joseph,
I would also, like many, like to compliment you on such a beautiful tank. I am working on my own 225-gallon in-wall tank. My husband and I have been looking at your website extensively. It has been a great resource.

Anyway, I wanted to follow up on the earlier posts about the OM Mag-Scraper. Since my tank is so large, I had to have it built with the thicker glass. It appears that many people have issues with the Mag-Float magnets. I see that Paul is also offering the Tunze magnets as an option for his scraper. Do they work better on thicker walled glass tanks?

Thanks.

weatherson · 11/02/2005, 08:36 PM

Rebecca: Thank you and it pleases me that you are able to gain something from my experience and my website.

What is the thickness of your glass? I have .5" and the Mag Float magnet does an adequate job with the scraper. Anything thicker than .5" and I would suggest going with the Tunze. For a regular glass cleaning magnet, I use an Algae Free Hammerhead. This one is much more powerful than the Mag Float and it also floats. I use it with the acrylic tank pad in place as I feel this just works better.

Joseph

Bemmer · 11/03/2005, 09:12 PM

Joseph,
Thank you for your reply. My glass tank is also .5" thick. I thick I will go with the Tunze magnet because it is better than "adequate"

If I may ask, I did not see a UV sterilizer as part of your equipment list? Do you use one? If so, how do you have it plumbed?

10/06/2005, 11:07 PM	#476
jwedehase Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Central CA, USA Posts: 908	I'm not Weatherson, but I'd vote for the 150w 6500. My gut feeling is that growth will be better, but even if it's not, the cost of running the bulb will be less. We're only talking a couple of bucks per month, but it all adds up. __________________ This space for rent. Current Tank Info: 120g Mixed Reef. 2x250w HQI 14K, 4x39w T5HO. AquaEuro 400

10/07/2005, 09:19 AM	#478
beachroadbum Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: gulf of lune Posts: 468	amazing thread...an amazing tank...!!! __________________ "you know it's gonna get stranger...so let's get on with the show." weir/barlow Current Tank Info: 58 oceanic dsb/t5 4bulb teklight/vortech mp20/aquac ev180/aquac custom sump

10/07/2005, 09:58 AM	#479
McGinnis Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington, Vermont Posts: 310	Jospeh, Thanks for the advice. In my designs down the road I will incorporate a refugium of that size into the system. What sort of lighting do you use over the fuge? Is this another metal halide? Thanks again __________________ Matthew Kuhlmeier "Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the lifelong attempt to acquire it" Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 90-Gallon AGA Reef-Ready, Converted Wet/Dry to sump/refugium, T-5 Lighing, Oceansmotion Squirt & Mag 9.5 Closed Loop, Ozone, and still counting..

10/07/2005, 10:34 AM	#481
McGinnis Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington, Vermont Posts: 310	Joseph Is there an advantage to having the light to the fuge on that sort of schedule? Is there a reason why having the light to the fuge on when the main tank lights are off is beneficial to the system? Just curious. Thanks for the quick reply by the way. __________________ Matthew Kuhlmeier "Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the lifelong attempt to acquire it" Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 90-Gallon AGA Reef-Ready, Converted Wet/Dry to sump/refugium, T-5 Lighing, Oceansmotion Squirt & Mag 9.5 Closed Loop, Ozone, and still counting..

10/07/2005, 10:37 AM	#482
NexDog Snail Killer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kyushu, Japan Posts: 4,804	Thanks for the advice, Joseph. __________________ Laurence Flynn 340g In-Wall Envision Tank and 150g Sump. Current Tank Info: Deltec 902, PFO hood with 3x400w Radium 20k and 4x96w PC's. Hammerhead closed loop - and 2 x Tunze 6105 (and Vortech still sucks).

10/07/2005, 09:10 AM	#477
weatherson Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: California Posts: 2,022	McGinnis: You are welcome. My refugium is 20-gallons. If you plan to keep an SPS dominant tank, I wouldn't suggest any smaller a refugium for a main tank of this size. I've been very pleased with my refugium's performance and have no issues of any nuisance algae and no detectable nitrite, nitrate or phosphate. Of course there are many other factors that help to contribute to this such as a good sized and efficient skimmer with ozone, plenty of flow, carbon/Phosban use and regular, persistent maintenance. selgado: Zip ties and the triangulated inside corner braces seen in the photo. melev: Actually, there's only a couple snails and crabs each in there. The only real algae growth in there is when a small piece of Chaeto gets through from the refugium and sets up home. Those get relocated back into the refugium. Other than this, it stays algae free. I've been thinking of and will probably add a Tiger Tail for the sand bed but will need to add an egg crate barrier on the left to prevent any possible cucumber puree. bheron: I'm very pleased with my sand bed and yes, it's only 3" deep on average. Aesthetically, I couldn't do without it. Enough said. NexDog: Growth rate? I feel that would be a toss-up. PAR is probably pretty close between those so it comes down to if you want to throw a little more money at it to have slightly better coloration (10K over 6.5K) in your frags. My priority is to achieve the best growth at the expense of coral coloration as cheaply as possible. I use enough electricity elsewhere and it isn't exactly cheap here in California. Another factor is how large a grow-out system you plan to keep. The 150 isn't going to allow for anything much larger than the size of mine for SPS corals. Joseph

10/07/2005, 10:06 AM	#480
weatherson Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: California Posts: 2,022	jaredt: Thanks and thanks. McGinnis: You are welcome. Yes, it's an Iwasaki 150-watt, SE 6500K driven by an IceCap electronic ballast. In addition, it's on a reverse cycle from the main tank. Joseph

10/07/2005, 12:12 PM	#483
weatherson Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: California Posts: 2,022	McGinnis: Yes. It helps to stabilize the tank's PH due to photosynthesis. Basically, it helps to lower carbon dioxide and raise oxygen levels in what is normally a time of just the opposite in the main tank. NexDog: You are welcome. Joseph

10/07/2005, 12:40 PM	#484
McGinnis Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington, Vermont Posts: 310	Joseph, Thanks for the information, now I am being to understand the reasoning a bit more. So basically, the fluctuation in pH is reduced during the night, so the overall pH is more stable...is that correct? Also, you mentioned your water quality can be helped by having your skimmer hooked up to the ozone, why is this? Don't want to redirect the thread, so feel free not to answer. __________________ Matthew Kuhlmeier "Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the lifelong attempt to acquire it" Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 90-Gallon AGA Reef-Ready, Converted Wet/Dry to sump/refugium, T-5 Lighing, Oceansmotion Squirt & Mag 9.5 Closed Loop, Ozone, and still counting..

10/07/2005, 08:54 PM	#486
weatherson Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: California Posts: 2,022	McGinnis: Yes, you've got it. Regarding the use of ozone, it can help to clarify the water due to its oxidation properties. Basically, it oxidizes some organic matter in the water which allows the skimmer to better remove it from the water. But... ozone should always be used in moderation. Over-use can be as detrimental as proper use can be beneficial. DerekW: Very good point. Joseph

10/10/2005, 07:02 AM	#487
McGinnis Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington, Vermont Posts: 310	Joseph, Thanks for the information again! Between you and Marc (Melev) I have learned a considerable amount! You guys deserve a lot of credit for being so knowledgable, and so willing to help others. Thanks __________________ Matthew Kuhlmeier "Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the lifelong attempt to acquire it" Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 90-Gallon AGA Reef-Ready, Converted Wet/Dry to sump/refugium, T-5 Lighing, Oceansmotion Squirt & Mag 9.5 Closed Loop, Ozone, and still counting..

10/15/2005, 07:38 PM	#488
bcoons Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Central Texas Posts: 168	Well, it's taken me over a week, but I just finished reading through the first 119 pages of this thread in the first part, and just had to jump here to the end of this one. I read every word of every post, and it was all well worth it. What an amazing experience. I have been doing fresh water aquariums about three years. I've wanted to try salt water, so I've been studying books and reading on the internet for a couple of months now. I have set up my first marine tank (a 20 gal long) just two weeks ago with my first batch of salt water and 20 lb of cured live rock. I put my first fish in today, a single clownfish. We'll see how it goes. While waiting for the tank to stabilze about a week ago I found this thread. Started at post one. This thread has been more educational and inspirational to me than any book or anything else I could have done. As an engineer, and chronic tinkerer, I am in awe of Weatherson's talents and skills. And planning. And execution. Just Damn! I'll probably never have the tank Joseph has, but I will have something bigger and better than my current little 20 gal. And when I do I am going to try to make it as elegant, efficient, interesting, and clean a system as I have seen here. I have a model to follow. But talk about a tough act to follow....... Thanks, Weatherson, for the thread and the journey. I hope this thread continues for a long time, and I can come back and say I have started something half as good as yours. Bruce

10/16/2005, 09:15 AM	#489
McGinnis Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington, Vermont Posts: 310	Hey Joseph, I have a sump that I want to place a bulkhead into, unfortunately I have no experience working with acrylic. How do you suggest I make the hole? Can I use a hole saw, or is this too crude a method? Thanks for the help. __________________ Matthew Kuhlmeier "Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the lifelong attempt to acquire it" Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 90-Gallon AGA Reef-Ready, Converted Wet/Dry to sump/refugium, T-5 Lighing, Oceansmotion Squirt & Mag 9.5 Closed Loop, Ozone, and still counting..

11/01/2005, 12:26 AM	#491
weatherson Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: California Posts: 2,022	It's been a while since my last post here (sorry for the delay) so I thought I would do a quick update. But first... McGinnis: You are welcome and it's my pleasure to help. tdool is spot on in his advice. Thanks. bcoons: You too are very welcome and thank you for the very kind words. OK... I took a new full tank shot today and thought it would be interesting to view growth rates from the shot I took almost exactly a month prior. These shots are slightly off from each other and I did move a few corals but if you look at certain corals in both photos, you can easily see the rate of growth. Here you go...

11/01/2005, 12:49 AM	#492
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	I like that. You can really see the difference. Even the returns in the center of the tank have been growing.

11/01/2005, 07:14 AM	#493
McGinnis Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington, Vermont Posts: 310	Joseph, I have said it once and will say it again, that really is a beautiful tank! Great job setting up the comparison in an overlay format. Really nice job. I have been steadily acquiring new equipment for my tank, so in the next few weeks I will hopefully be getting underway! Marc has been a huge help to me via email, taking time to answer novice questions is probably not what he wants to be doing, but he does anyhow. You guys both deserve credit for taking the time further the hobby along to newcomers! Thanks __________________ Matthew Kuhlmeier "Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the lifelong attempt to acquire it" Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 90-Gallon AGA Reef-Ready, Converted Wet/Dry to sump/refugium, T-5 Lighing, Oceansmotion Squirt & Mag 9.5 Closed Loop, Ozone, and still counting..

11/01/2005, 01:16 PM	#494
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	It is no problem. Matter of fact, it is a good way to get to know the person behind the username. When you start your own thread about your tank, be sure to send me the link and I'll subscribe for the duration.

11/01/2005, 02:18 PM	#495
weatherson Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: California Posts: 2,022	Marc: Yes, it's amazing what calcium additions can do for plastic. Mathew: Thanks again and please do provide a link to your upcoming thread. Just keep in mind, however, that Marc is a hack and take his advice with a grain of synthetic salt. Seriously, you couldn't ask for a better mentor to have at your side for your upcoming adventure than Mr. Levenson. Joseph

11/01/2005, 02:31 PM	#496
melev Moved On Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Ft Worth, Tx Posts: 43,217	Everything I've learned was stolen from Joseph. So he's your guy. (Why does Matthew think of himself as a ping pong ball all of a sudden?)

11/01/2005, 03:51 PM	#497
McGinnis Premium Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burlington, Vermont Posts: 310	Marc, You got that right, but one way or the other I think I will end up in good shape regardless of which one of you is going to take the credit...I am just fortunate enough that you both are willing to help. That is the real key for success in this hobby, being able learn from others and get help from more experienced people when times are tough. __________________ Matthew Kuhlmeier "Wisdom is not a product of schooling but of the lifelong attempt to acquire it" Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 90-Gallon AGA Reef-Ready, Converted Wet/Dry to sump/refugium, T-5 Lighing, Oceansmotion Squirt & Mag 9.5 Closed Loop, Ozone, and still counting..

11/02/2005, 03:53 PM	#498
Bemmer Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 681	Tunze Magnet for the OM Mag-Scraper Hi Joseph, I would also, like many, like to compliment you on such a beautiful tank. I am working on my own 225-gallon in-wall tank. My husband and I have been looking at your website extensively. It has been a great resource. Anyway, I wanted to follow up on the earlier posts about the OM Mag-Scraper. Since my tank is so large, I had to have it built with the thicker glass. It appears that many people have issues with the Mag-Float magnets. I see that Paul is also offering the Tunze magnets as an option for his scraper. Do they work better on thicker walled glass tanks? Thanks. __________________ Rebecca

11/02/2005, 08:36 PM	#499
weatherson Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: California Posts: 2,022	Rebecca: Thank you and it pleases me that you are able to gain something from my experience and my website. What is the thickness of your glass? I have .5" and the Mag Float magnet does an adequate job with the scraper. Anything thicker than .5" and I would suggest going with the Tunze. For a regular glass cleaning magnet, I use an Algae Free Hammerhead. This one is much more powerful than the Mag Float and it also floats. I use it with the acrylic tank pad in place as I feel this just works better. Joseph

11/03/2005, 09:12 PM	#500
Bemmer Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 681	Joseph, Thank you for your reply. My glass tank is also .5" thick. I thick I will go with the Tunze magnet because it is better than "adequate" If I may ask, I did not see a UV sterilizer as part of your equipment list? Do you use one? If so, how do you have it plumbed? __________________ Rebecca