Warner Marine Now Has A Pellet Product

[builderguy]

So does it seem that if you are running 1-1.5 liters...which I would need to do on my system because of the size that you'd be better off with a larger diameter reactor? Seems like some are having problems with the 4" diameter - too bad as I wanted to use my Precision Marine reactor for this.

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by builderguy

So does it seem that if you are running 1-1.5 liters...which I would need to do on my system because of the size that you'd be better off with a larger diameter reactor? Seems like some are having problems with the 4" diameter - too bad as I wanted to use my Precision Marine reactor for this.

That reactor will be fine IMO to run the EB in, It's the BRS reactor that is having clumping with at least In my situation.
Bill

[noahm]

Just thought I would post an update. Somewhere back in this thread is my start post. I think it was the later days of June, so almost 2 months. I had zero NO3 and PO4 readings at the beginning, but crazy HA in the sump, and pretty good growth on one side of the DT. It has slowed to a crawl in the DT, but still in the same places. The sump has also slowed growth, but still pretty thick.

I have 500 mL in a BRS reactor that has stayed tumbling nicely the whole time. I have never had to shake it or break it up. Skimmate production has not been significantly different. One thing I have noticed is that the rock has started to grow tons of 'stuff' all over it. It looks like it did when I first got it shipped from the gulf with what can only be described as various kinds of filamentous mossy/lichen-ish stuff all over it about 1/8" long on average. It really looks 'alive'. Not sure if it has anything to do with the Ecobak, but it sure looks nice.

IMO, this is no 'cure-all', but it does seem to help keep wastes from becoming problematic. I have been able to increase feeding a bit as well as I was pretty skimpy before, and haven't had any problems.

[drummereef]

I'm getting ready to start running my WM ecoBAK pellets in a SMR1 reactor. What the general consensus on running GFO while using ecoBAK? Is it safe to do both or should I discontinue the ecoBAK?

[thysrof]

I asked John Warner the question and he felt it was a resonable idea to run them both for a couple weeks in seperate reactors until the bacteria bulids up on EB pellets and then stop the GFO. I did just that and had a positive result

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by thysrof

I asked John Warner the question and he felt it was a resonable idea to run them both for a couple weeks in seperate reactors until the bacteria bulids up on EB pellets and then stop the GFO. I did just that and had a positive result

Sounds like a good plan. I have Carbon and GFO running in separate reactors so I'll keep that going until the pellets get established. I still plan on running Carbon regardless. Thanks thysrof.

[builderguy]

How do you know when they're established?

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by builderguy

How do you know when they're established?

I'm assuming by watching your NO3 and PO4 levels. Once they start dropping there's enough bacteria to support the system.

[poolkeeper1]

OK,I just received my Hanna Phosphorus meter and did my first two test, To my surprise (Not Really) I got a 006 and then a 0 So this EB must be doing something that removes Po4 or those kinds of # would not be possible. This meter measures in PPB That's Billion So when you do the math to Millions It's really low.
I think the Key is to get the proper amount of EB for your Bio-load, Not going by some predetermined amount.
Bill

[GUILLO1]

The Warner Marine Pellets are for reals. I've been fighting some cyano for over 6 months which recently had turned kinda slimy. I couldn't get rid of it and I tried just about everything I could. I almost wiped out all my corals using that red slime remover. I tried lots of GFO, PhosGuard and carbon with no luck. I even tried an ATS algea turf scrubber. I didnt have the ATS set up long enough thats why it didnt work.

About 2 weeks ago I added 1/2 liter of WM ecobak pellets into a TLF reactor. About 3 days ago I recieved my Geo 420 reactor and I swithed the pellets from the TLF, plus I added 1 more liter. Yesterday I blasted all my rocks with a turkey baster and like always the tank looked really clean. By the next morning the slime would be back all over my tank. To my surprise today the tank is as clean as it was yesterday. I can also see where the cyano is dying off big time.

here is a video of the reactor with the pellets tumbling

[buy_baff]

I am very pleased with the pellits in the last two weeks. Glass is staying clean longer only have to clean every 4 days. Skimmate is nasty black and stinks to high heaven. Cheato is not growing. And I have steped up my feeding big time. And my no3 is zero my po4 is 0.00 on hanna checker. I was skeptical at first but now I'm a beleaver. I'm going to leave the GFO out off my reactror next time it need changed and see if my po4 stays 0.00 if it dose that would be awesome as I am sick of buying GFO.
-Bill

[drummereef]

Originally Posted by poolkeeper1

I think the Key is to get the proper amount of EB for your Bio-load, Not going by some predetermined amount.
Bill

This brings up a very good point. How is everyone determining what the proper amount is for their systems.

I'm planning on adding 1L to my 220g (total volume) system. My bio load is very low at this point. So how do you know what amount is right? It's usually 1L/200g if I'm not mistaken but now I'm a bit leery...

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by drummereef

This brings up a very good point. How is everyone determining what the proper amount is for their systems.

I'm planning on adding 1L to my 220g (total volume) system. My bio load is very low at this point. So how do you know what amount is right? It's usually 1L/200g if I'm not mistaken but now I'm a bit leery...

I don't think you can put too much in to start, But with a heavy Bio load It's clear to me now that too little is an issue with it not doing quite what was promised. After starting with their recommended dose I slowly added more EB until I was happy that it was lowering my nutrient levels in my tank. I would start with 1L and give it time to colonize then watch for improvement, If there is none then add more until you get the desired result. JMO Give it plenty of time to work B4 adding more.
Bill

[Zedar]

As a long time vodka user, (hicup) I have some experience with carbon dosing and would like to share some of my thoughts on the subject. Because these pellets are so new, we can only use the experience we have with liquid carbon sources as a guide, so what I'm proposing may be wrong.
___________________________________________________

When I started vodka dosing, I was able to kill off a terrible HA outbreak in my tank. Within weeks of dosing, the algae died off. Not so with the pellets. WHY??
My answer: (maybe not the right answer. So feel free to critique)

The bacteria in a vodka dosed tank take up residence locally alongside the algae, directly competing for the same nutrients.
Not so in a pelletized system. The algae can scavenge nutrients locally (in the liverock) and survive.

Solution:
Whatever it takes to kill/remove the algae. Once the algae is gone, the P04 and N03 will be leached from the rock by the pelletized bacteria.
This can be achieved with vodka dosing alongside the pellets. Or a herbicide such as API Algaefix. ( can we use this stuff in a pellet system)

It appears that the pellets work fine at maintaining an ULNS but will not get you there.

___________________________________________________

Another problem for some people on this thread are Diatoms? Are you sure its not Cyano?

Cyano bacteria will thrive in ULNS. They can fix nitrogen from the atmosphere in an N03 limited system.

When I started vodka dosing, and after all the HA was dead, I started seeing Cyano growing on the sand. After a few months it became a real problem as it started to grow in very thick mats.
After some reading on the forums, I tried something that sounds crazy, but it worked. I dosed Potassium-Nitrate and the Cyano was gone in a day.

It appears that Cyano cant compete with higher life forms such as algae. Because N03 became limited due to vodka dosing, Cyano took over because of their ability to fix Nitrogen from the atmosphere. Once I introduced some N03 they where killed off by algae that take their place in the system.

Speaking of N03. Its my belief that most carbon dosed systems become Nitrate limited due to the addition of carbon from vodka and P04 from food.

[bertoni]

I agree that some systems might be nitrogen-limited, and that dosing nitrate might help reduce phosphate in those systems, strange as the idea might seem.

[Zedar]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I agree that some systems might be nitrogen-limited, and that dosing nitrate might help reduce phosphate in those systems, strange as the idea might seem.

I saw results in one day, after months of Cyano. For it to disappear over night was pretty convincing.

I also noticed an increase in SPS color. Less washed out looking.

[triguy]

Originally Posted by noahm

Just thought I would post an update. Somewhere back in this thread is my start post. I think it was the later days of June, so almost 2 months. I had zero NO3 and PO4 readings at the beginning, but crazy HA in the sump, and pretty good growth on one side of the DT. It has slowed to a crawl in the DT, but still in the same places. The sump has also slowed growth, but still pretty thick.

I have 500 mL in a BRS reactor that has stayed tumbling nicely the whole time. I have never had to shake it or break it up. Skimmate production has not been significantly different. One thing I have noticed is that the rock has started to grow tons of 'stuff' all over it. It looks like it did when I first got it shipped from the gulf with what can only be described as various kinds of filamentous mossy/lichen-ish stuff all over it about 1/8" long on average. It really looks 'alive'. Not sure if it has anything to do with the Ecobak, but it sure looks nice.

IMO, this is no 'cure-all', but it does seem to help keep wastes from becoming problematic. I have been able to increase feeding a bit as well as I was pretty skimpy before, and haven't had any problems.

What pump are you using with your BRS reactor and how much flow do you have going through it to keep your pellets tumbling? It sounds like others are having issues with their BRS reactor which is what I plan on using.

Another question: I have been told to seed my tank with zeobak for 5 days before using pellets. Premium aquatics is on backorder. Is there another product I can use to seed and/or is this really necessary?

[poolkeeper1]

Originally Posted by triguy

What pump are you using with your BRS reactor and how much flow do you have going through it to keep your pellets tumbling? It sounds like others are having issues with their BRS reactor which is what I plan on using.

Another question: I have been told to seed my tank with zeobak for 5 days before using pellets. Premium aquatics is on backorder. Is there another product I can use to seed and/or is this really necessary?

I didn't seed my Pellets with anything and they are working fine!
Bill

[Zedar]

Triguy,

I don't think its necessary. But here's another brand.

Brightwell MicroBacter7

[triguy]

Thanks Bill and Zedar. I may just cancel that part of my order and start out with a small amount of pellets and add slowly.

[milkman55]

I am on day 23 of the EcoBak pellets and continue to see progress. Heavy skimmer production, clean glass. I have seen a few small patches of hair algea that has popped up this week, but nothing else negative. SPS color is getting better.

Using a 18" tall AVAST reactor and have a steady tumbling action on the pellets. Using 1 liter of pellets for my 200 gal system.

[drummereef]

Jon Warner told me to avoid using any products to "seed" the pellets. Simply because those manufacturers won't be specific as to what strain of bacteria they use in their products. He said it's not necessary.

[Tony Romano]

"Solution:
Whatever it takes to kill/remove the algae. Once the algae is gone, the P04 and N03 will be leached from the rock by the pelletized bacteria.
This can be achieved with vodka dosing alongside the pellets. Or a herbicide such as API Algaefix. ( can we use this stuff in a pellet system)"

I used API Algaefix and it killed off algea fast, too fast maybe, I think tank went toxic for a day or two due to added nutrients. I lost several acros over next 2 weeks. This may well have been due to a combination of things. I recall thinking I need to stop fixing things on tank, too many changes too fast. Even small tweeks done together seem to stress some sps.

Currently tank is stable, 95% of time sps is winning fight with algae and cyno.

All of your thinking is in line with my experience. GHA on rock is just bound crap leaching, it will pass. (Assuming you are not adding it via food) Also I find powdered foods seem to cause cyno/algae.

BTW I add MB7 ~daily and ZEObac weekly (Using up ZB)

[Stuart60611]

Originally Posted by drummereef

Jon Warner told me to avoid using any products to "seed" the pellets. Simply because those manufacturers won't be specific as to what strain of bacteria they use in their products. He said it's not necessary.

Just so you know Jon told me several days ago that Warner Marine is now in the process of creating a product to dose live bacteria to seed and maintain bacterial colonies on the pellets. He is opposed to other live bacterial products b/c he does not know what is in them. However, he is not opposed to the concept of dosing live bacteria to seed and increase bacterial colonies on the pellets and is in the process of creating a product to do so.

[ari5736]

Originally Posted by Stuart60611

Just so you know Jon told me several days ago that Warner Marine is now in the process of creating a product to dose live bacteria to seed and maintain bacterial colonies on the pellets. He is opposed to other live bacterial products b/c he does not know what is in them. However, he is not opposed to the concept of dosing live bacteria to seed and increase bacterial colonies on the pellets and is in the process of creating a product to do so.

YEAH