Let's talk about Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium in an SPS Tank

[Martin Kuhn]

Dosing Ca /Alk in a fix ratio for each and every tank in my eyes is nothing but nonsense

There are Several reasons why one tank "consumes" more Ca, the next one more Alk

If you dose in a fix ratio, you will end up in a scenario where one of the two values are not ok. This is reality and you will find tons of messages alone in this forum.

I think the failure in thinking is that people suggesting this try to "add something that is close to seawater"
But
We'd better "add the correct amounts" so that our "tanks water will become like natural seawater"
That's a big difference !

In reality whatever amounts of Ca/Alk (and also Mg and other Elements) corals are consuming, this is nothing because there is so much water around and flowing with perfect and stable parameters

Totally different in our tanks, especially if stuffed with SPS. What this guys consume in order to grow as we want them to, we might need to add huge amounts of Ca/Alk steadily.
Supplementing this is kind of feeding SPS. Not doing this is letting corals suffer.
Adding it in a fixed ratio of Ca/Alk if one of the values is in a "not ok range" is also letting them suffer.

The same is for other traces (K, iodine, Stro). Different to Ca/Alk and Mg WE can't measure ..... so can't control dosing of this elements (yet).
And this is the miracle of waterchanges because they add and or correct these elements.
Ver good in my eyes also: Ca / Alk / Mg recipes that bring traces with the dosing.






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[Martin Kuhn]

Dosing Ca /Alk in a fix ratio for each and every tank in my eyes is nothing but nonsense

There are Several reasons why one tank "consumes" more Ca, the next one more Alk

If you dose in a fix ratio, you will end up in a scenario where one of the two values are not ok. This is reality and you will find tons of messages alone in this forum.

I think the failure in thinking is that people suggesting this try to "add something that is close to seawater"
But
We'd better "add the correct amounts" so that our "tanks water will become like natural seawater"
That's a big difference !

In reality whatever amounts of Ca/Alk (and also Mg and other Elements) corals are consuming, this is nothing because there is so much water around and flowing with perfect and stable parameters

Totally different in our tanks, especially if stuffed with SPS. What this guys consume in order to grow as we want them to, we might need to add huge amounts of Ca/Alk steadily.
Supplementing this is kind of feeding SPS. Not doing this is letting corals suffer.
Adding it in a fixed ratio of Ca/Alk if one of the values is in a "not ok range" is also letting them suffer.

The same is for other traces (K, iodine, Stro). Different to Ca/Alk and Mg WE can't measure ..... so can't control dosing of this elements (yet).
And this is the miracle of waterchanges because they add and or correct these elements.
Ver good in my eyes also: Ca / Alk / Mg recipes that bring traces with the dosing.






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[SantaMonica]

There are Several reasons why one tank "consumes" more Ca, the next one more Alk

Yes, this is especially true when systems have strong algal/macro filters because these try to get carbon from dissolved CO2 in the water. When CO2 can't dissolve into the water fast enough, alk starts being consumed in order to get carbon from it.

The worse case for this is an enclosed algae/chaeto reactor that has no contact with air; it has no choice but to consume alk.

[biecacka]

Month later and I got my ALK in order. Holding steady at 8.6-8.9 for 3 weeks almost. But I can't get my mag up, it's now up to 1100 but 10 days ago it was almost 1200. I out new media in my calcium reactor as well as remag to help boost it. However, I am not sure I out enough in.
Any thoughts on what could consume mag this much? Should I use mag flake to raise it quicker then use the remag in the calcium reactor to help hold it steady?

Corey

[JB NY]

Any water changes? Mg gets consumer pretty slowly, but a 100 point drop could be seen when trying to get the tank balanced. I would raise the Mg to where you want it to be, then try and see if your method is keeping it steady.

[biecacka]

Yeah I'm doing water changes every 3 weeks now (new concept as opposed to 4-5). I'm new in the SPS world and needed less in the LPS. I'm adding mag flake to my water change now to help raise it. Then will see if my calcium reactor can maintain it.

Corey

[JB NY]

I bet your Mg is low in the salt you are using for your water changes. The best thing to do is setup to do a water change and measure the Mg, Ca and alk of the new freshly mixed water. Most times you will have to adjust the mix to meet what you are trying to maintain in your tank. Once you start doing that you should see less swings in your parameters.

[biecacka]

I use IO. There is a spreadsheet floating around here with their numbers on it. I'll dig that up.

Corey

[SantaMonica]

Even with no water changes, I used to never consume much mag. Got tired of testing unchanging numbers. Just seemed to stay up, except every year or so it would suddenly be low when I remembered to test again.

[FLSharkvictim]

I keep my alk between 8-9 dkh, Ca right around 450 and MG 1350 and i have been getting great results with these numbers on my display. I only use ME CORAL Alk, Cal, and there MAG.. It;s a local company out of Fort Lauderdale, FL. Great products..

TANK INFO
120 Mixed Reef
Ecotech M1 pump
Skimz 163 DC Montzer Series skimmer
Custom sump / Refuge
2 Maxspect Gyre XF130's Pumps
2 AI Hydra TwentySix HD LED Fixtures
Celestial C35W Maxspect Refuge Spotlight
Aqua UV Ultraviolet Sterilizer 25w
BRS Dual Media reactor
Eshoops IV Master & Slave Doser
Tunze 3155 Auto Top Off

[biecacka]

Got my mag up to about 1200. Calcium is about 500, and alk is holding around 8.3.
Good start?

Corey

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by biecacka

Got my mag up to about 1200. Calcium is about 500, and alk is holding around 8.3.
Good start?

Corey

Better. When I first had my tank setup 500 Calcium was not uncommon. I like to keep my magnesium around 1400.

Here's a nifty chart for Ca/Alk ratio so you have an idea of how in balance things are.

DKH Ca
4.50 393
4.75 395
5.00 397
5.25 398
5.50 400
5.75 402
6.00 404
6.25 405
6.50 407
6.75 409
7.00 411
7.25 413
7.50 414
8.00 418
8.25 420
8.50 422
8.75 423
9.00 425
9.25 427
9.50 429
9.75 431
10.00 432
10.20 434
10.50 436
10.75 438
11.00 439

[Zhuisken]

Alkalinity: 10
Calcium: 500
Magnesium: 1500

Dana Riddle had a interesting talk at MACNA last year on high alkalinity levels and increased photosynthesis in corals. He has a lot of good research on corals growth and coloration.

Good water chemistry, lighting, and flow can make for some great looking corals!

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[JB NY]

Originally Posted by Zhuisken

Alkalinity: 10
Calcium: 500
Magnesium: 1500

Dana Riddle had a interesting talk at MACNA last year on high alkalinity levels and increased photosynthesis in corals. He has a lot of good research on corals growth and coloration.

Good water chemistry, lighting, and flow can make for some great looking corals!

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Dana uses pocillopora a lot in his studies. Those things grow like weeds in the worst of circumstances so I am not surprised that they might do good with high alk. I've never found low or high alk to have much impact on growth. Better to keep ca around 450 and Mg 1350-1450.

[Zhuisken]

Originally Posted by JB NY

Dana uses pocillopora a lot in his studies. Those things grow like weeds in the worst of circumstances so I am not surprised that they might do good with high alk. I've never found low or high alk to have much impact on growth. Better to keep ca around 450 and Mg 1350-1450.

Consistency I believe is the key when your parameters is within a reasonable range. Alk, Ca, Mg.

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[five.five-six]

Arggg, I need to read this entire thread again!

[10Seconds]

My Alk has been 12 or higher for the last 6 months. Hasnt had any noticiable benefit so I am going to drop it back down. Have tried as high as 14.

On the other hand, it didnt cause any trouble except on one SPS that i bought from the LFS which they kept at 7.5 Alk and it went through a rough adjustment. Its doing fine now too.

Im going to let it gradually fall back to 9 over the next couple months.

[gatreef]

I find that dosing Kalkwasser and watching the corals for growth, polyp extension and coloration is the easiest method for me. I test for calcium, alk and ph but not very often.

[five.five-six]

I test weekly

[H2oH2o]

I gotta say, I am loving my Trident!


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[SantaMonica]

Maybe the automated systems can have a "scrubber aware" option, which allows for more alk when a scrubber is growing. Yes another switch.

[five.five-six]

I forgot if this calculator is in this thread, it’s older than this thread and handy as heck!

http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html

[Reef Bass]

For me, both high (>10) and low alk (<7) can be problematic. Low alk especially.

I also have noticed times when it seemed dosing "balanced" amounts of alk and ca wasn't yielding reasonable numbers. I used to have this 24" back to front of tank Idaho Grape Monti cap. that was a ginormous calcium sponge.

And adjusting dosing to accommodate ever changing populations and growth of stony corals can provide additional challenge.