Octopus Skimmer Mods

[KH971]

HDTV...how are you feeding that monster, pump or is it plumbed to the overflow?

[Abengochea]

to be honest with u, when i zipped tied it I didnt really think about balancing them evenly. Ill go back and fix it.... thanks for the heads up

[hdtvguy]

Originally posted by KH971
HDTV...how are you feeding that monster, pump or is it plumbed to the overflow?

I have a small submersible pump that runs in the sump where my overflows dump into. The area is baffled so most of the overflow water is fed into the skimmer. The pump is rated @ 500Gph

[Roland Jacques]

Originally posted by Roland Jacques
you can see from the 2 photos they fixed the plumbing
before and after

QUOTE]Originally posted by hahnmeister
hdtvguy...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...72#post8717172


Looks like a monster

Hey look from this angle you can see that they fixed the small plumbing issue. That puts it way up in my book. [/QUOTE]

[Roland Jacques]

Brother you are brillent, i dont no why i did not try that first.

BRAVO!!!!

Originally posted by Abengochea
This thing works like a champ!!! I dont have a dwyer but from the sound of all tyhe air being pulled in and the amount of foam I am getting .... this thing works!!! here are some pics. I all did was put a layer of gg on the inside and one on the outer side

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[Roland Jacques]

I can tell just buy looking at it, you are pulling over 30 SCFH!!!!

You would not believe how manny times i cut myself spliting the paddle wheel. just to find out now that i did not even have to.

Now, Imagine that DNW -400 could run the same (maybe more) air with just 2 pumps.

[KH971]

I will be all over that mod when my skimmer comes in. I will probably not even fire it up without the gutterguard. I will put that on first!!!!!!!

[schneijt]

Do any of you who have done the gutter guard mod on your impellers happen to have any spare gutter guard laying around? I have no other use for gutter guard than to do the mod, so buying a big roll would be a terrible waste of 99% of the roll. So, if any of you are willing to send me a couple small pieces in the mail so I can mod the pump in my recirc. 110, I'd be most appreciative. Hopefully one of you can spare a little bit and is willing to spend 39 cents to save me 10 bucks. :-)

Thanks,
Joe

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by BigJPDC
are you worried about shortening the life of the motor by increasing the load on it, or is the added weight and friction negligable? It might be interesting to hook up a killawatt before and after the mod.

jp

Originally posted by QtJenny19
plus the gg is very light so the additional weight is negligible

BigJPDC is correct, and Qtjenny19, you are overlooking the extra resistance possibly created by the modded impeller. The size/weight of the impeller is the least of our concern, but if the mod creates more resistance (think of using a paddle in a boat, and then using one that is the same weight, but had twice the paddle area... which is harder to paddle?), then there is the possibility for trouble.

This is why I keep a Kill-A-Watt on hand. I take a reading of the pump in its stock configuration, then compare its VA and wattage to the modded one to make sure Im not running at a higher wattage/VA. Usually, going too high results in startup problems, but sometimes you can get the pump to 2x the wattage/VA and it will start. The problem is that you can overheat the pump, and start a fire.

So BigJPDC is correct... its best to look at the VA/wattage to make sure you dont burn the house down.

[Roland Jacques]

Originally posted by BigJPDC
are you worried about shortening the life of the motor by increasing the load on it, or is the added weight and friction negligable? It might be interesting to hook up a killawatt before and after the mod.

jp

I have tested this.

The resistant is actualy less. I have done a few 5 or 6 GG / mesh mods and every time the wattage use was lower.

The less water being moved (More air) the less work being done buy the pump. The pump will last at LEAST as long as a " normal pin ... wheel.

The only exsception is start up. start ups are a little harder... because their is no air in the housing at that time.
So unless your skimmer is on a timer where it cycles off and on, your pump will last as long, if not longer than a "stock" paddle wheel. Remember none of these pumps were made for pumping air, and they work just fine doing so.

[JCTewks]

Originally posted by BigJPDC
Will these show up on the web site? What about replacement gaskets and o-rings as well?

thanks,
jp

JP, I will ask next time I am over there about the website.....I think I noticed a bag of o-rings on the shelf as well.

Jeff

[JCTewks]

I have started using 10# test fishing line and stitching the GG/Mesh on to the impeller wheel. It seems like there would be a little less weight, and less drag(Load) on the pump using fishing line instead of zipties. As an added bonus you dont have to worry about balancing the impeller or the possibility of your zip ties rubbing the body or volute of the pump. Using fishing line, I have been able to get another layer of GG on the impeller or a little thicker mesh (whichever mod you prefer, I have done both and my opinion is still up in the air).


Jeff

[Abengochea]

thanks guys, I wasnt as brave as u guys to take it apart but its working great so far. I have noticed that I probably need to help this thing breath a little better. Having the stock airline makes it have to work a little harder to get air into it. Ill have to look into maybe adding another hose

[BigJPDC]

Originally posted by JCTewks
JP, I will ask next time I am over there about the website.....I think I noticed a bag of o-rings on the shelf as well.

Jeff

Thanks JC - it seems as though the rubber band I am using on the standpipe is just fine, but when I took the pump connection apart to drill out the washer, I noticed another o-ring had broken inside. Both were made of crappy clear rubber, not heavy black stuff.
And I just noticed my collection cup has a crack in it somehow.
I bet a few folks out here would be interested in buying the cup covers with the octopus etching in it too . . .

jp

[BigJPDC]

Very cool Roland - you rock! The only restarts would be to empty the cup and other maintenance.
jp

Originally posted by Roland Jacques
I have tested this.

The resistant is actualy less. I have done a few 5 or 6 GG / mesh mods and every time the wattage use was lower.

The less water being moved (More air) the less work being done buy the pump. The pump will last at LEAST as long as a " normal pin ... wheel.

The only exsception is start up. start ups are a little harder... because their is no air in the housing at that time.
So unless your skimmer is on a timer where it cycles off and on, your pump will last as long, if not longer than a "stock" paddle wheel. Remember none of these pumps were made for pumping air, and they work just fine doing so.

[hahnmeister]

Originally posted by Roland Jacques
I have tested this.

The resistant is actualy less. I have done a few 5 or 6 GG / mesh mods and every time the wattage use was lower.

The less water being moved (More air) the less work being done buy the pump. The pump will last at LEAST as long as a " normal pin ... wheel.

The only exsception is start up. start ups are a little harder... because their is no air in the housing at that time.
So unless your skimmer is on a timer where it cycles off and on, your pump will last as long, if not longer than a "stock" paddle wheel. Remember none of these pumps were made for pumping air, and they work just fine doing so.

This is often the case because the air/water mix does require less energy to move, but the goal of many (I know larger companies do this) when designing the NW for a pump is to increase the thickness or diameter of the needlewheel/meshwheel to match the wattage/VA as close as possible to the regular pump's to maximize its throughput. For instance, a regular impeller might be 1" diameter, and 1/2" thick, so the needlewheel, because it doesnt perform as well with air/water, can/should have its diameter and/or thickness increased. The needlewheel might be 1.5" in diameter and 3/4" thick with pins, bringing the wattage/VA back up.

The thing to watch is how far off the wattage is from the VA... the farther apart they are, the more electricity that the pump is taking in but not putting into work done... so the only other way to shed the energy is heat.

[schneijt]

Just wondering, is there much of a difference between one layer of gutter guard and two? As far as motor life vs. skimmer improvement? Is it a little better on the pump to do one layer of mesh? I'm just wondering if there is a happy medium between performance increase and possible stress on the motor? What do you think?

-Joe

[Roland Jacques]

Originally posted by Abengochea
thanks guys, I wasnt as brave as u guys to take it apart but its working great so far. I have noticed that I probably need to help this thing breath a little better. Having the stock airline makes it have to work a little harder to get air into it. Ill have to look into maybe adding another hose

yeah if you in large your venturi hole, air line... you will get more air for sure, But you are in the same boat as me Rich and a few others, in that you are allready putting more air than that skimmerneck can handle so... we had to restict the air hose anyway. so you might just want to leave it like it is. sure look good to me.

[Roland Jacques]

Originally posted by hahnmeister
This is often the case because the air/water mix does require less energy to move, but the goal of many (I know larger companies do this) when designing the NW for a pump is to increase the thickness or diameter of the needlewheel/meshwheel to match the wattage/VA as close as possible to the regular pump's to maximize its throughput. For instance, a regular impeller might be 1" diameter, and 1/2" thick, so the needlewheel, because it doesnt perform as well with air/water, can/should have its diameter and/or thickness increased. The needlewheel might be 1.5" in diameter and 3/4" thick with pins, bringing the wattage/VA back up.

The thing to watch is how far off the wattage is from the VA... the farther apart they are, the more electricity that the pump is taking in but not putting into work done... so the only other way to shed the energy is heat.

I follow you Hahn, I never thought about the heat being associated like that. im trying to get my head around that. I think I need to let the swelling go down first, JP says I rock, so my head pretty big right now LOL. Abengochea is the one who made it simpler, so he rocks also right?

[BigJPDC]

LOL - for sure all the DIY folks on RC rock.

jp

[JCTewks]

Well, I finally got around to making an extension for the neck of my DNW110.

I discovered that the inside part of my old seaclone 100 was almost the same size as the current neck. So I went out and bought 2-2" SCH80 unions and started hacking away. It turns out that the female part of the 2"union will screw on to the male metric unoion that is already on the body.

I had to slightly ream out the union ends to get the 2 1/2" acrylic to fit snuggly and just used PVC cement to put them together.

I had to cut the female metric union off of the collection cup and put a new 2" union on that.

I have done the meshwheel mod and the skimmer just couldn't handle all of the air. that is the thinking behind the neck extension. Here is a pic of the finished skimmer.



the new total height is almost 36" and it is finally able to skim dry. I am going to try some different mesh next weekend and hopefully i can get even more air in there.

If anyone lives in SW Ohio and has a dwyer I would love to see what kind of air this will handle....



Jeff

[Abengochea]

JC that thing is a beast


thanks roland, but if it wasnt for u guys I wouldve never got the idea to mess with this skimmer. Thank goodness for a good platform like this to share ideas

[KH971]

So do you think I need to do the meshwheel mod to the DDNW-250? It has the dual pumps with with a 10 inch body and a 4 inch neck, would that produce more air than the neck can handle?

[hahnmeister]

JCTewks, that is just wrong... sick...

What gets me is that the outlet pipe is at the halfway mark, but the foam is kicking out at 3' tall!! Thats the kind of foam head beckett owners like to brag about, and you did it with a reef octopus... kick @$$!!!

[Avast Marine]

nice work.....is that on your 26??? lol