AquaIllumination PAR Measurements

[Falcao]

Hi Tom
I been following along and I think these AI makes a great product. My question is way do you think they made these lights with so much par? If we can not use it at 80% let alone at 100%, what is the point of having all that power for our reef systems?

[scoobyalty]

Well plans have changed and I was able to pick up 4 of the new SOL Blue modules to run over my 220 72" SPS tank. I have done a lot of reading and I think that I can get away with only 4 modules over that tank and be successful. What I have not found yet is how high I should hang them above my tank to get good coverage. Any advice you can give me? Also what is a good way of mounting these lengthwise to be able to go with only 4 units over my setup instead of mounting them the traditional way the rails are setup for? Thanks again for your tremendous help and the great forum full of knowledge.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by CJO

I hope this is not too far off topic, but it appears that several people have ordered or are going to order VDMs for use with their AI lights. Hopefully this will be helpful for everyone using the VDM...

Thanks very much CJO! I've not yet had an opportunity to unbox my VDM, but based on a cursory review, it appears much of it can be handled via cut/paste.

[ducatimikep]

I just mounted a pair of modules lengthwise over my 48" L tank.
I will post some pictures later today.

[ducatimikep]

CalmSeas, add the Vote tab to this new page!

[wesley6610]

Agreed, I bleached quite a few SPS colonies myself when I first setup my array last fall, so in a years time I have been able to keep everything alive and growing, just extremely underpowered. I have read about so many folks upgrading to XP-G/XP-E's and pushing 1000mA and 40 degree optics, I was starting to doubt if my tank wasn't growing because it was underpowered. I like the AI units, but they are definitely not in the budget just yet (just got married). My Apex comes on Friday and I'm looking to hook my DIY unit up to that for sunrise and sunset dimming. So I will continue to follow along....and I voted yesterday, good luck!

[rostato]

Here is an updated picture of my tank. I have been using one madule over my tank for just over 7 months now.

Please forgive the ugly cyano bacteria, it's always a battle for me.

[CJO]

Originally Posted by Falcao

Hi Tom
I been following along and I think these AI makes a great product. My question is way do you think they made these lights with so much par? If we can not use it at 80% let alone at 100%, what is the point of having all that power for our reef systems?

I'm not Tom, but I hope you don't mind if I share my opinion. As long as you have the ability to dim the lights, you are not hurting yourself if you add the ability for more PAR (within reason). Most of the lighting today doesn't come near the PAR values of shallow water reefs. Having the ability to have higher PAR values allows you to get closer to these values (after proper acclimation). It also gives you the flexibility to raise the lights higher over the tank while still retaining the PAR values you want. Also, some species may very well do better at higher PAR values that we are currently giving them.

CJ

[wesley6610]

It looks healthy, just a little dim on the edges, how is your coloration in person?

[rostato]

Originally Posted by wesley6610

It looks healthy, just a little dim on the edges, how is your coloration in person?

It's very healthy, and purposely dim on the edges. For one reason, the oceanic tech series have a 3" lip around the top, and because I wanted to have more of a spotlight look rather than the look of a picture. It gives the tank a nice contrast. This also was at a very dim portion of my daily schedule.

My tank is a good example of the placement of corals that is needed if you are going to try and squeeze out as much space as possible with these lights.

I really wish I could get my hands on the degree optics.

The coloration is getting much better than it was with the SOL whites. I am starting to see much more color popping from the corals.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by Falcao

Hi Tom
I been following along and I think these AI makes a great product. My question is way do you think they made these lights with so much par? If we can not use it at 80% let alone at 100%, what is the point of having all that power for our reef systems?

I think AI did a good job in sizing these - Integrating this much PAR with the flexibility of controlling individual color channels (dimming) gives owners a wide range of customization.

• The ability to deliver enough PAR to the substrate on deeper tanks.
  
• The extra power allows for wider optics and elevated mounting solutions providing far greater coverage on shallower tanks.
  
• Having a surplus of power on each color provides maximum coloration options. If you want 6K or 25K (or anywhere coloration in between) it's available with the turn of a knob and you'll still have plenty of PAR, unlike any other type of lighting system I'm aware of.
• Running at lower power settings extends the life of the diodes and reduces the need for active cooling (slower fan speeds = less sound.)

Here's a good comparison - The Orphek LED unit generates even more PAR (it's a 140w light) BUT it's coverage area is very small (not much larger than the light itself.) So it produces HUGE PAR, 900+ at 12" directly below the light, (enough to kill just about anything) but it drops off to ~50PAR just 2 inches outside of the lights footprint. In addition, it has no dimming functionality.

Here's a link to an amazing 1450 gallon build that tested the Orphek and demonstrates that with LEDs, power with controllability is very limiting.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by ducatimikep

CalmSeas, add the Vote tab to this new page!

VOTE VOTE VOTE VOTE

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by ducatimikep

I just mounted a pair of modules lengthwise over my 48" L tank.
I will post some pictures later today.

Congrats Mike - Looking forward to pics

Originally Posted by CJO

I'm not Tom, but I hope you don't mind if I share my opinion. As long as you have the ability to dim the lights, you are not hurting yourself if you add the ability for more PAR (within reason). Most of the lighting today doesn't come near the PAR values of shallow water reefs. Having the ability to have higher PAR values allows you to get closer to these values (after proper acclimation). It also gives you the flexibility to raise the lights higher over the tank while still retaining the PAR values you want. Also, some species may very well do better at higher PAR values that we are currently giving them.

CJ

Thanks CJ, I couldn't agree more - The controller is the key.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by scoobyalty

Well plans have changed and I was able to pick up 4 of the new SOL Blue modules to run over my 220 72" SPS tank. I have done a lot of reading and I think that I can get away with only 4 modules over that tank and be successful. What I have not found yet is how high I should hang them above my tank to get good coverage. Any advice you can give me? Also what is a good way of mounting these lengthwise to be able to go with only 4 units over my setup instead of mounting them the traditional way the rails are setup for? Thanks again for your tremendous help and the great forum full of knowledge.

Congrats Ben!

I'm assuming your tank is 72"X24"X30"?

I think you might be the first on this thread to transverse mount 4 AIs over a 220 (someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) It's a bit of a guess for me as I don't have the 70° optics, but I would estimate you'll want them elevated ~12" This will vary depending on your aquascaping. It will probably yield some darker areas along the top perimeter, but as you'll likely not have corals there, hopefully it will be tolerable.

As for mounting methods, Someone posted a photo earlier in this thread of a transverse mount using a single AI rail that looked intriguing. There are also some that have used light trees affixed to the back of the tank, but I'm not sure how effective that would be on a 6' tank. You could also adapt the AI hanging kit to use your own metal (or any variety of materials for that matter) rails as the AIs attach via 2 simple bolts.

It looks like you're going to be a pioneer with this build - I'm especially interested in the PAR available on your substrate. Please keep us posted (with pics)

[Falcao]

Thanks CJ & Tom for the replies.
I guess you guys are right in not running them hard to save the LEDs. I understand the different coloration that you can get with the controller. Is it possible like CJ said to acclimate our corals to such high par? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to say not have the lenses on the unit( like maxspect) to cover more space, or are the lenses need to produce such high par. The AI seems to be a quality product, I would assume that even without the lenses it would produce much better than the maxspect. What you guys think?

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by Falcao

Thanks CJ & Tom for the replies.
I guess you guys are right in not running them hard to save the LEDs. I understand the different coloration that you can get with the controller. Is it possible like CJ said to acclimate our corals to such high par? Wouldn't it be more cost effective to say not have the lenses on the unit( like maxspect) to cover more space, or are the lenses need to produce such high par. The AI seems to be a quality product, I would assume that even without the lenses it would produce much better than the maxspect. What you guys think?

The general consensus is the Cree LEDs used in the AIs generate more energy (PAR) than the SemiLEDs used in the Maxspect, in fact I'm in the process of upgrading most of the LEDs in my G2 to Cree and adding optics.

Yes - Adding secondary optics results in higher PAR and lesser coverage - it's a pretty efficient trade off. The the use of optics allows you to define (focus) where you want the light and visa vie PAR. LEDs without secondary optics (such as the Maxspect) spread the light based on the native output of the diode itself (usually about 120°.) The limitation is, it must be mounted very near the top of the tank, our you'll get light spillage outside of the tank (just look at any of the photos of my frag tank showing the G2 mounted 12" above the tank. You'll note lots of light lost on the walls. Lack of optics also greatly reduces the ability to deliver PAR deeper in the tank.

[scoobyalty]

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

Congrats Ben!

I'm assuming your tank is 72"X24"X30"?

I think you might be the first on this thread to transverse mount 4 AIs over a 220 (someone please correct me if I'm wrong.) It's a bit of a guess for me as I don't have the 70° optics, but I would estimate you'll want them elevated ~12" This will vary depending on your aquascaping. It will probably yield some darker areas along the top perimeter, but as you'll likely not have corals there, hopefully it will be tolerable.

As for mounting methods, Someone posted a photo earlier in this thread of a transverse mount using a single AI rail that looked intriguing. There are also some that have used light trees affixed to the back of the tank, but I'm not sure how effective that would be on a 6' tank. You could also adapt the AI hanging kit to use your own metal (or any variety of materials for that matter) rails as the AIs attach via 2 simple bolts.

It looks like you're going to be a pioneer with this build - I'm especially interested in the PAR available on your substrate. Please keep us posted (with pics)

Thanks Tom for the reply. Glad to hear you think 12" will be sufficient because that is about what I have got....might be up to 14" depending on the type of rail I can get set up to run them transverse. Right now they have the 70 degrees on the ends and 40's in the middles do you think I will be alright that way or am I going to have to make an order to get them all 70's? Don't think it will be a huge deal having dimmer top perimeter as I do not have anything really up there and to be honest my aquascaping is the lower 2/3-3/4 so that should be a non-issue. Really hoping this works out well with only 4 modules because the power consumption would be a drastic reduction and heat in the canopy would be a thing of the past.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by scoobyalty

Thanks Tom for the reply. Glad to hear you think 12" will be sufficient because that is about what I have got....might be up to 14" depending on the type of rail I can get set up to run them transverse. Right now they have the 70 degrees on the ends and 40's in the middles do you think I will be alright that way or am I going to have to make an order to get them all 70's? Don't think it will be a huge deal having dimmer top perimeter as I do not have anything really up there and to be honest my aquascaping is the lower 2/3-3/4 so that should be a non-issue. Really hoping this works out well with only 4 modules because the power consumption would be a drastic reduction and heat in the canopy would be a thing of the past.

I think the 4 units will work fine, as long as you're happy with the lower PAR areas. You can decrease/eliminate them by elevating the lights higher, but you'll do so at the loss of PAR at depth (and it sounds like you're a the limits of your canopy install.)

I would NOT change to all 70° optics as doing so will also decrease your PAR at depth, which you're going to need with a 30" deep tank.

One last note - Contrary to common consensus, LEDS actually generate MORE heat per watt than MHs. The difference is they don't radiate that heat to the tank. We're able to capture it through the use of heat sinks and use active cooling to dissipate it into the air. That said, depending on how "tight" your canopy is, you still might want some active cooling to exhaust that heat into the room.

You're dead on about the power savings though

[Falcao]

Thanks again for the reply Tom
I see where the light spillage is quite bad. I did think they the leds were at 120 that is very broad. I will be waiting to see the upgrade on maxspects that should be interesting. Do not get me wrong I do believe this will be the light fixture that I will be getting. These were the questions that I have that pop up in my head. I think both you & CJ have answer my questions very well. This is great thread, keep up with the great info.

[scoobyalty]

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

I would NOT chage to all 70° optics as doing so will also decrease your PAR at depth, which you're going to need with a 30" deep tank.

I think that the DSB I have will be a benefit for sure in helping make the depth to the substrate more like 22"-24". I am super excited to see how this is going to work out for me.

Bonus of the canopy design I think will be that the top lifts up like a toy chest. I am going to have the rail for the modules to be bolted to attach to the sides of the canopy like a closet rod does for easy adjustment up and down and when it gets hot in the summer....up goes the top!

[HorsePower]

Anyone order from aquacave? Whats there wait time on these AI super blue units? Anyone know?

[k.tran]

It would be very difficult to obtain the stated LED pattern as the blue/white ratio on the pucks is fixed. The SOL whites are W/W/B. The SOL Blues are W/B/RB. Unless you desoldered and resoldered individual LEDs (not mounted on stars) you're restricted to interchanging pucks.

The controllability issue when mixing pucks would mean you would cross-control some blues/whites (i.e. If you replaced 1/2 of the pucks in a SOL White unit with SOL Blue pucks, 1 blue LED on each of the SOL Blue pucks would be illuminated and controlled on the white channel.)

They would all still be variable, just a bit cluttered

So If i were to buy 2 SOL blue fixtures. And put the SOL white on there. On the blue channel for the dimmers it would controll the 2 whites? or 1 white and the 1 blue?

[rostato]

Originally Posted by k.tran

So If i were to buy 2 SOL blue fixtures. And put the SOL white on there. On the blue channel for the dimmers it would controll the 2 whites? or 1 white and the 1 blue?

yes, the 2 whites would be controlled by the blue channel.

[CalmSeasQuest]

Originally Posted by k.tran

So If i were to buy 2 SOL blue fixtures. And put the SOL white on there. On the blue channel for the dimmers it would controll the 2 whites? or 1 white and the 1 blue?

If the end goal is SOL Whites, you can simply purchase those directly from AI without any controller confusion. I *think* all AIs are shipping with the 70° optics now - if not, it's very simply to swap out optics as needed.

The only time you'd have to deal with the cross-control issue is if you intermixed White and Blue pucks within a single AI unit.

[k.tran]

Originally Posted by CalmSeasQuest

If the end goal is SOL Whites, you can simply purchase those directly from AI without any controller confusion. I *think* all AIs are shipping with the 70° optics now - if not, it's very simply to swap out optics as needed.

The only time you'd have to deal with the cross-control issue is if you intermixed White and Blue pucks within a single AI unit.

My end goal is more a mixture of both fixtures so that I can get the RB color without getting that 18-20k look on the tank.