Wet Skimmate Water Changes?

[Elliott]

Originally posted by mobert
That is why I have a 1/4" drain. It doesn't start emptying till it is full and it can only drain what a 1/4" drain can handle. If it were to get too full it backs up to my skimmer cup which fills up and the skimmer pump's venturi intake recirculates what is in the cup----which is ok because the skimmer had gone crazy and it is not too funky in the cup.

I'm running a large external Beckett skimmer so if the cup backs up it runs out all over my equipment room, there are advantages in having an internal skimmer!

I can't find a float switch/relay that can handle a 400w pump, not sure I want to turn the pump on and off anyway, I think I'll just keep an eye on things, it can handle 80g of going "nuts" right now without causing too many problems, that's probably enough you think?

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott
I'm running a large external Beckett skimmer so if the cup backs up it runs out all over my equipment room, there are advantages in having an internal skimmer!

I can't find a float switch/relay that can handle a 400w pump, not sure I want to turn the pump on and off anyway, I think I'll just keep an eye on things, it can handle 80g of going "nuts" right now without causing too many problems, that's probably enough you think?

Mine is external also. So your skimmer pumps have no venturi intake??

I also drilled a 3/4" drain in the skimmer cup with a standpipe so it only is used when the cup is full and it drains back into the sump.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by mobert
Mine is external also. So your skimmer pumps have no venturi intake??

I also drilled a 3/4" drain in the skimmer cup with a standpipe so it only is used when the cup is full and it drains back into the sump.

no, I'm running a Pan World 250, no venturi, the dual Beckett's create considerable bubble/foam without the need for a venturi, I guess I could drill a hole high up in the skimmer cup and run a line down to the skimmer body but I'd rather not mess with the skimmer if possible, trying to come up with a simple solution.

How about have the skimmer cup drain to the side of an open container, entering the container near the top. Let's say there is a small hole near the bottom that allows for a slow drain of skimmate. If the skimmer goes nuts and overcomes the drain the water will rise above the skimmer drain and occlude the orifice, shutting off the air and shutting down the skimmer, much like the ping pong ball does in the waste container, think it would work? then when the skimmer calmed down the container would drain and allow the skimmer to function normally...

would it work?

[CleveYank]

Yes it will work


I've got a 7 foot high dual venturi monster that the prior owner complained of overflows. I took skimmate gallon jug and placed venturi inputs pointing down into yet at the top of the gallon jug by zip ties and old powerhead bracket and when it got to that point no more bubbles. The test worked like a charm.

Your's should shut off the air input the same when it gets full as you describe.

[Elliott]

Originally posted by CleveYank
Yes it will work


I've got a 7 foot high dual venturi monster that the prior owner complained of overflows. I took skimmate gallon jug and placed venturi inputs pointing down into yet at the top of the gallon jug by zip ties and old powerhead bracket and when it got to that point no more bubbles. The test worked like a charm.

Your's should shut off the air input the same when it gets full as you describe.

ok, I'm going to try it! thanks

mobert: thanks for all the ideas, I'm loving not having to clean my skimmer every few days!

now I'll have to find a way to block the smell of the open skimmate container

[Konadog]

Originally posted by mobert
... the venturi intake for the skimmer pumps would suck the extra back through the pump and in the skimmer again.

If I understand this statement and this picture You are pulling your skimmer air from inside your collection cup. Do you notice any difference in your skimmer bubble size or density "vs" pulling your air from outside? And for the bigger question, does this reduce the "nog smell" while the skimmer is running? This could make my wife very happy

Wouldn't your skimmer basically shut down anyways if the cup filled up enough for the intake to start sucking skimmate, kinda self regulating?

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott
How about have the skimmer cup drain to the side of an open container, entering the container near the top. Let's say there is a small hole near the bottom that allows for a slow drain of skimmate. If the skimmer goes nuts and overcomes the drain the water will rise above the skimmer drain and occlude the orifice, shutting off the air and shutting down the skimmer, much like the ping pong ball does in the waste container, think it would work? then when the skimmer calmed down the container would drain and allow the skimmer to function normally...

would it work?

if your drain from the skimmer cup to the container is too small it will not burp the air out and just stop flowing. If you don't screw the top back on tight after cleaning it could overflow. Otherwise it should work.

I'm not sure a vented container would not overflow. My container is vented with a 1/4" tube to above the skimmer cup height.

[mobert]

Originally posted by Elliott

now I'll have to find a way to block the smell of the open skimmate container

Your skimmate container should now be closed so no smell.

[mobert]

Originally posted by Konadog
You are pulling your skimmer air from inside your collection cup. Do you notice any difference in your skimmer bubble size or density "vs" pulling your air from outside? And for the bigger question, does this reduce the "nog smell" while the skimmer is running? This could make my wife very happy

Wouldn't your skimmer basically shut down anyways if the cup filled up enough for the intake to start sucking skimmate, kinda self regulating?

No difference in skimmer bubbles. I had a lifereef skimmer prior to the Euroreef and it was designed to draw from inside the skimmer cup. Check out their website and their reasons for doing this:
http://lifereef.com/frame.html
So.....no smell and no venturi sucking noise.
So yes, the skimmer would suck skimmate and re gurgitate. Pretty much the funk just goes round and round the skimmer if the cup gets too full and will automatically start up again when the drain catches up.

This is a partial quote from their description of their protein skimmer:
NO SALT-CLOGGED VENTURI, EVER! our skimmer utilizes a self-cleaning venturi. (nozzle injected and other venturi skimmers clog and require maintenance)
NO SUCKING NOISES, silent operation, no injector nozzle (Becketts) noise, no needle-wheel hum and vibration.
NO EXCESS BUBBLES in your sump!
NO constant adjustments, the self-cleaning venturi prevents water level fluctuations.
NO cup overflow, the self-cleaning venturi prevents the cup from overflowing.
NO special waste collector required, our cup is a collection cup, not a diverter cup.
NO "humming" or vibration noise as in needle-wheel designs or hard-mount pumps on the skimmer body.
NO ERRATIC PERFORMANCE, the self-cleaning venturi maintains a stable water level and skimming.
NO EXCESSIVE pipes, valves, tubes, contraptions, or "air sucking devices" hanging all over the skimmer.

[Elliott]

mobert: I was thinking of leaving the container open and allowing the level to rise when the skimmate overcomes the drain, however I like your idea better. If the container has a lid then when the drain is overwhelmed it will immediately occlude and shut the skimmer down, much like the ping pong ball. And with a lid, less smell. I will do some trials and report back, thanks

[CleveYank]

I agree with the sealed type as well.

After I get my new build up and in place I have 2 of these sealed skimmate resivoirs to build, a carbon filter for top(air venting out of skimmer top) and bottom output(skimmer water discharge) of large skimmer I refer to as the fire hydraunt 1 to remove ozone from air and water outputs, Kalk reactor, and new dual chamber 6 22 Ca reactors, and two dual chamber nitrate filters for ehiem glass media. A trip to US Plastics for lots of acrylic is in my near future.

This skimming waterchange jazz has opened a new door for an automated water change Idea if I can get my hands on the right soliniod (corrosive chemical liquid type) and some valving.


Oh yeah, along with this whole testing for venturi shutoff, I've been setting up for a RO/DI water stream to be shot into the venturis to keep them clean. On my timer based gravity setup which uses those little blue pumps which I have running through pump 100ml of fresh RO/DI water though a tee that suck the water through venturis to keep everything running smoothly to prevent clogging due to salt buildup. My HSA becket will do it too but it needs alot more water to keep things the same and the cheap doser doesn't pump enough so a check valved low powerhead feeding air input may be required. But that's another test I've not gotten to yet.

[JMBoehling]

Thanks to everyone that chimed in.. I've made a couple changes to my reef because of your great feedback. I now have a continous water change set up. I am now wet skimming 1 gallon a day water changes. All evaporation and Kalk is dosed with a simple drip from a 5 gallon bucket. The Salt Water is replaced via a Float Valve. (I may change this out in a few weeks for a Float Switch and Pump, as I have a feeling the Saltwater will clog up things pretty quickly)

Here are a few pics of my ghetto setup. Pardon the nasty sump.





Thanks again everyone. I really like this setup.

Jim

[mobert]

i use both a kent float valve and two float switches (hi and low). it takes a long time to clog.

[JMBoehling]

Update:

Working perfectly. I've got my skimmer pulling about 1.5 gallons a day. All Corals and fish seem to be very happy!

Highly recommend this set up to everyone. I think my water parameters will stay much more consistant this way as well. No major ALK and PH spikes with water changes now.

Jim

[Elliott]

Originally posted by JMBoehling
Update:

Working perfectly. I've got my skimmer pulling about 1.5 gallons a day. All Corals and fish seem to be very happy!

Highly recommend this set up to everyone. I think my water parameters will stay much more consistant this way as well. No major ALK and PH spikes with water changes now.

Jim

ditto

[Konadog]

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[Elliott]

well deserved, this technique has been the single best thing I have done for my reef tank, water quality is significantly higher and much more stable.

[Marklu]

Okay, somebody should write a simple step by step guide to this, I'm having trouble wading through this info, but am quite interested!

[Elliott]

Originally posted by Marklu
Okay, somebody should write a simple step by step guide to this, I'm having trouble wading through this info, but am quite interested!

In theory it's simple, just turn your skimmer up a bit so it pulls a gallon or two each day and replace it with newly mixed seawater. I have an 80g reservoir with a submersible pump, controlled by a float switch in my sump, so as the skimmer pulls more skimmate it activates the float switch and replenishes the lost volume with new seawater. The benefit is you are replacing skimmate, which has the highest density of waste, with fresh seawater. Over time this results in much higher water quality compared to standard water changes.

[chieuxuan]

Originally posted by Elliott
good thought! you could even have a slow drain on the bucket so it would allow the skimmer to run but not so fast as to fill the bucket and trip the switch, and if it did once the bucket drains down a little it would turn the skimmer pump back on, I'm running a PanWorld 250 that draws 400 amps so I need to obtain an appropriately sized float switch

Yes, there is float switch that can handle that wattage!!!

[Marklu]

Elliot - I understand that part. But the part i'm having trouble with is evaporation. I guess you should lower the s.g. of the resovoir water? Is there anyway that you could figure out exactly what it should be, or is kind of a guessing game?

[JMBoehling]

I drip Kalk for my topoff. Assuming you have an idea of how much water evaporates in a day, I set my kalk to drip at a rate equal to my evap rate (approximately). For my setup it is 1 drip per second.

My fresh Saltwater is set on my float valve and is replaced equal to that which is skimmed out. I do check my salinity once a week to make sure things are in check.

Hope this helps!

Jim

[Elliott]

chieuxuan, thanks for the link

Marklu, as mentioned above by JMBoehling , I drip Kalk in RO at a rate approximate to my evaporation with a dosing pump, so I can adjust my s.g. by adjusting the skimmer and/or Kalk drip, so far it's been real easy

[Marklu]

Hmm, so right now i'm using a float valve for my kalk top off, but i should use it for my fresh saltwater and get a dosing pump for kalk. Got it now, thanks a lot guys! I also need to install a drain on my skimmer...

[Jerm77]

Originally posted by mobert
A few pictures worth a thousands words:

mobert,

I'm trying to figure out how your "flush" works on your drain container.
can you try to explain it again for me please?




also can you take a pic of your skimmer cup? I want to see where your venturi and drain container vents are going.