Algae Scrubber Advanced

[flyhigh123]

The fuge that my ats empties into has a space that is 20 x 12. Should I make a 6" dsb under the ats?

[slow_leak]

I would use live rock instead.

[flyhigh123]

Originally Posted by slow_leak

I would use live rock instead.

I have the other half of fuge with rock

[JohnnyB in SD]

There should be no need to take up nitrates when you have a properly setup & running ATS. What would be the purpose of using a DSB under an ATS?

[Thatgrimguy]

Dosing iron to supplement scrubber growth... When is this necessary and how do you go about it?

[salty joe]

First, you might want to see where you are and go from there.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_search...20kit&parsed=1

[Thatgrimguy]

Originally Posted by salty joe

First, you might want to see where you are and go from there.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_search...20kit&parsed=1

Well. I guess I should have phrased that better. What levels are acceptable? Do they differ from a system not running a scrubber? What are the actual benefits and disadvantages? What is used to dose iron (is there a specific brand I should be looking for?)

[srusso]

Originally Posted by Thatgrimguy

Dosing iron to supplement scrubber growth... When is this necessary and how do you go about it?

As of right now, I am on the third week of test dosing iron. I got a tip on a DIY iron source from normal iron supplements from CVS store brand. Take a pill and let it soften in RODI. Stir well once the pill is completely soft. Allow to settle, 20 mins or so. Dose green liquid and leave fillers at the bottom of the cup. I am doing it once a week. when you does it will cloud the tank water.

I used one pill the first week, saw little change in color of growth. Clouded my 70 gallon for about an hour or more.

I used two pills the second week, saw a generally greener healthier growth by the third and fourth day. It clouded the water for about three hours. No I'll effects noticed and fish or SPS, LPS, Softies, anemones or inverts.

This week (yesterday) I used 3 pills. The growth of the screen is that of a day older. Greener healthier looking growth. Clouded the tank for about 6 hours, corals seemed to love the dose as polyps where fully extended.

Again fish and others seem normal.

This is still something I am testing so do at your own risk. I am using the color and health of the algae harvest as my indicators for more or less dosing. At the moment I am dosing the solution all at once but I may start drip dosing.

[Thatgrimguy]

Originally Posted by srusso

As of right now, I am on the third week of test dosing iron. I got a tip on a DIY iron source from normal iron supplements from CVS store brand. Take a pill and let it soften in RODI. Stir well once the pill is completely soft. Allow to settle, 20 mins or so. Dose green liquid and leave fillers at the bottom of the cup. I am doing it once a week. when you does it will cloud the tank water.

I used one pill the first week, saw little change in color of growth. Clouded my 70 gallon for about an hour or more.

I used two pills the second week, saw a generally greener healthier growth by the third and fourth day. It clouded the water for about three hours. No I'll effects noticed and fish or SPS, LPS, Softies, anemones or inverts.

This week (yesterday) I used 3 pills. The growth of the screen is that of a day older. Greener healthier looking growth. Clouded the tank for about 6 hours, corals seemed to love the dose as polyps where fully extended.

Again fish and others seem normal.

This is still something I am testing so do at your own risk. I am using the color and health of the algae harvest as my indicators for more or less dosing. At the moment I am dosing the solution all at once but I may start drip dosing.

Do you have a thread where you are documenting the experiment? I would love to see your results.

[redneckgearhead]

Me too!

[salty joe]

http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/...tm#composition

According to this link, NSW has an iron concentration of 0.0034 ppm. I'd be leery of greatly elevating anything from NSW levels. I'd never dose anything that would not be measured, just my opinion.

[linx]

I've been skipping through this thread and it's been nice to see how much info is being collected, but how do you measure iron in your seawater?

[srusso]

Originally Posted by linx

I've been skipping through this thread and it's been nice to see how much info is being collected, but how do you measure iron in your seawater?

I am going by the color of my algae ATM. I think they do have iron tests though... Fe+

[srusso]

As I said I would get around to picking through the basics thread for topics to discuss here.

Algae Scrubbing used on an industrial level. These systems are proven to remove some nasty stuff from farm run off.

Originally Posted by srusso

If people haven't seen a water treatment facility

This image is from http://www.algalturfscrubber.com/

Also here is a quote from the algal turf scrubber site...

"...the ATS algal product can also be converted to paper and construction materials and can be used to sequester carbon and heavy metals as well as break-down toxic hydrocarbons. ATS-produced algae can be converted to energy products such as biodiesel, gasohol and methane."

[srusso]

Originally Posted by srusso

Please watch this inspiring video I watched that was the nail in the coffin for me when I was on the fence about building a scrubber.

The related video

[srusso]

Originally Posted by srusso

http://www.chesapeake.org/stac/agcon...ols/kangas.pdf

This is a great 28 page presentation, read through it. Its brief and helpful in understanding how ATS systems are used in large scale applications.

Lots of pictures too...

[srusso]

Originally Posted by srusso

http://www.physicsegypt.org/epc08/epc823.pdf

Another great document, short only 10 pages. It was written by Walter Adey, Phd, Jeffrey Bannon, MESM and Longenecker and Associate.

My favorite quotes and highlights

"it is important to note that this is a modular system, capable of expanding to any size."

I don't think they realized how small we would take it...

"A 2005 independent study of ATS, by the South Florida Water Management District and the IFAS Institute of the University of Florida, certified ATS as 5-100 times more cost efficient at removing nutrients from Everglades canal waters than the next competitor, the STA, a managed marsh system."

a marsh looks a lot like a refuge doesn't it?

"ATS and STA were the final contestants in a 15-year study of nine technologies, and ATS was the only technology that created a usable byproduct."

We are green both literately and figuratively!

"ATS removes heavy metals, break down toxic hydrocarbons, and oxygenates treated waters."

...but we already knew that...

"Depending upon season and temperature, the resulting algal turf must be harvested every 5-15 days to maintain high levels of productivity."

I have reason to believe that my system may benefit from a 5 day cleaning cycle. I will soon began testing this theory. I notice the algae on day 6 and 7 darken considerably. Yet on day 5 it is bright green in color.

[srusso]

Originally Posted by srusso

"The above information is supported by dozens of experimental studies and hundreds of years of operational time (i.e., multiple ATS over 25 years of operation). Moreover, ATS systems have received over 15 years of research and development testing followed by a ten-year history of pilot plant construction and operation for water quality control. This not only includes ATS systems for water treatment, but also for aquaculture."

Tested for quite some time now...

"As in most photosynthesis, algal turfs abundantly release oxygen; in ATS systems, oxygen is dissolved into the overflowing water. It is not unusual for water flowing off an ATS plant in the afternoon to be highly supersaturated."

"ATS systems are well known for their abilities to “scrub” nitrogen and phosphorus. Their lack of sensitivity to nutrient concentration, until extremely low levels are achieved, provides the ability to accomplish high water purity."

"It has been known for a half century that algal cell walls adsorb heavy metals, and it is a characteristic of ATS phytoremediation, that heavy metals are removed from treated waters and sequestered into the algal biomass. This is an added value of ATS water cleaning, especially in waters with an industrial or urban component."

"ATS systems with high oxygen supersaturation break down entrained hydrocarbons. There is an extensive general research literature on this process, and a single ATS research study in the late 1990’s demonstrated that when combined with artificial ultraviolet, ATS systems have considerable capability of breaking down a variety of chlorinated hydrocarbons."

Hey that's us! ^^^

[srusso]

Originally Posted by srusso

Another very interesting video, not a direct ATS system, but more of a production line approach with an algae scrubber feel.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by salty joe

http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/...tm#composition

According to this link, NSW has an iron concentration of 0.0034 ppm. I'd be leery of greatly elevating anything from NSW levels. I'd never dose anything that would not be measured, just my opinion.

IIRC, is it very difficult to maintain any level of measurable iron in a reef system, but I can't recall why this is. It just absorbed into everything very quickly, so it's really hard to overdose. In fact, one person did an experiment to see exactly how much you could dose in one shot before it was detrimental to the system, and it turns out that about 1 gallon added to a 90 gallon system will do a lot of harm to your corals, but won't completely kill them.

[Thatgrimguy]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

IIRC, is it very difficult to maintain any level of measurable iron in a reef system, but I can't recall why this is. It just absorbed into everything very quickly, so it's really hard to overdose. In fact, one person did an experiment to see exactly how much you could dose in one shot before it was detrimental to the system, and it turns out that about 1 gallon added to a 90 gallon system will do a lot of harm to your corals, but won't completely kill them.

Some of them did get jacked up pretty bad lol. I forgot about that experiment. I'm going to go search that out again. He has put that 90 gallon through some stuff in the name of science! Still looks great though. That eel he has is amazing.

[Trichome]

Has anyone been able to find a affordable LED light source for your ATS? I am very interested in being able to use LED lighting mainly because of the energy savings. Also because i don't enjoy having to change out 8 CFL bulbs every 6 months to a year.

[Floyd R Turbo]

right now the cheapest place I've seen is e-shine systems. But they only communicate via e-mail or chat through a translator and who knows the quality of the LEDs from taiwan/china. I know a few are being tried out right now. One other product was tried and it the fixture fried after a month or so because of moisture. Most 1W or 2W LED grow light fixtures have a fan to cool the PCB so you can't really use them in an open scrubber design, or even over an open sump where moisture gets drawn into the fixture. So the LED fixture route is really something that takes a little forethought.

[elegance coral]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

IIRC, is it very difficult to maintain any level of measurable iron in a reef system, but I can't recall why this is. It just absorbed into everything very quickly, so it's really hard to overdose. In fact, one person did an experiment to see exactly how much you could dose in one shot before it was detrimental to the system, and it turns out that about 1 gallon added to a 90 gallon system will do a lot of harm to your corals, but won't completely kill them.

One gallon at what concentration?

[Floyd R Turbo]

I think it was actually 1/2 gallon of Kent Iron/Manganese