Algae Scrubber Basics

[srusso]

Originally Posted by bucks448

I think the question was two part...

A vertical scrubber's effectiveness with lighting only on one side is reduced by 50%, so you need to double the size of the screen so you can light the same amount of square inches as a double sided scrubber.

I believe horizontal scrubber's effectiveness is reduced even more because of the water flow and surface area exposed to the air, so you need 4 times the surface area of a double sided vertical scrubber...

+1 I should have also mentioned that flow is another reason it is even less effective then the vertically hanging screen.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by salty joe

Floyd Turbo, that is a very nice scrubber you built.

What is the inside width?
You get 3D growth, right?
Is the aluminum angle heat sink all you need to keep your rig cool? No fans?
Really nice looking scrubber!

Inside of the box is 1.75" (just enough to get the fitting in place)
Center of bulb to center of bulb is 5.5 and change

Here's the heat sink:







I was going to add a fan to the whole system to keep the ballast and lights/etc cool but it runs fine w/o it. Tank is starting to heat up now but that's due to the location and HVAC issues in the building. So I have to get a controller and rig up some kind of cooling fan system.

Yes I get a lot of 3D growth. What I'm really curious to find out is what effect increasing the flow to the screen will have. I need to swap out the return hose from the pump since it's improperly sized too small and that should up the flow.

[srusso]

Cooling your water when you have an open or basic algae scrubber like mine, is extremely easy! Point a fan fan your screen, allowing the air pass to over the water flow. Done, I have never had need for this so I will allow someone who has done this to comment.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Well with removal of the skimmer pump, that killed a major heating issue in the tank. Before that the tank rarely got below 79 in the winter, they had to open all the cabinet doors at night. This winter they could leave it closed an it wouldn't go over 78. The other weekend was sunny and warm (over 40F) and tank is built into a wall that recesses into a south facing vestibule so it got toasty in there and heated the tank up. Summer is going to be the real issue. Last year the tank got up to 86 one day (before ATS)

[kcress]

This is an ATS I built as a test bed. It sat across the top of a 55g. It was LED powered and used a heavily corrugated acrylic sheet as the screen.

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I thought I could get better growth if I reddened the light so I did. I think it helped a little.




Summary.
1) The acrylic screen was too smooth and could never be made rough enough.

2) These super bright LEDs were not super enough. You'd need HBLEDs to really make it crank.

3) My water distribution at the top had too many dribble and leak issues that caused water to go places it shouldn't - like down the front window where algae would grow.

4) This was before we realized that you need an ATS big enough or it will never convert to the light green efficient algae. Exacerbating this was the fact that my tank was running a little over 1,100ppm nitrate.

I subsequently converted it to horizontal and learned even more about the issues of horizontals.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Originally Posted by CLINTOS

here's a pic of the screen I plan on using:

purchased from walmart

where did you find that screen at?

[srusso]

I have never looked in walmart myself but I would imagine that it's in the crafts section. First find the section that has yarn and stuff... Then ask people who work in that section for it. Ask anyone else and your likely going to get pointed to some type of paint department, with a weird blank look on their faces.

[CLINTOS]

Originally Posted by DgenR8

This thread has been stuck.

Awesome, brovo, time to move this hobby forward.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Originally Posted by srusso

I have never looked in walmart myself but I would imagine that it's in the crafts section. First the the section that has yarn and stuff... Then ask people who work in that section for it. Ask anyone else and your likely going to get pointed to some type of paint department, with a weird blank look on their faces.

I have looked at Walmart and asking someone who works in my local Walmart.

Let's say you would have a better chance asking a random blind person.

[CLINTOS]

Originally Posted by BluScrnOdeth

I have looked at Walmart and asking someone who works in my local Walmart.

Let's say you would have a better chance asking a random blind person.

lol so true It's one of those thing's u need to find on your own

if you look long enough you should find it. craft/sawing/material section. took me 20 minutes

[Floyd R Turbo]

Just go to any sewing / fabric store, like JoAnn, or craft store like Michael and as for "Plastic Canvas" 7 Mesh is the size you want

[chrissu]

Below are a few pictures of my algae scrubber and the tank. It is a Santa Monica 100 model that I purchased last year when they first became available. It took a couple of weeks for the algae to get established but once it took hold, the growth took off and the water quality improved from Nitrates 25ppm to undetectible in about 2 weeks. So it was 4 weeks from the time I hooked the scrubber up until it finally removed all measurable nitrates. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and phosphates are always undetectible nowadays even with up to 5 feedings a day. The feediings include healthy portions of blended oysters, rod's food, DIY food, flake, pellets, blended shrimp, and cylco-peze.

So many folks have already pointed out all of the technical and green merits of a scrubber so I'll instead mention the one thing that stands out the most for me personally. I'm now able to focus on enjoying the hobby again. :-) I've always believed in frequent feedings and since I don't have to worry about water quality nearly as much, I can focus on watching my corals and fish grow without worring about over doing it with the food. I'm also not spending my weekends doing water changes (I think they are way over rated with supplementation available). The SPS are easy to care for with this system too but I think the Neptune apex gets much of the credit there for the PH/Alk and Temp/MH lighting control. I don't spot feed any of my corals as the whole tank gets fed to the point that the tank will cloud of when I add the blended oysters (SPS polyps open up big for those oyster feedings). It's just a much more enjoyable hobby now.

I'm also a big fan of running multiple forms of filtration if you have them. It's worth mentioning that my scrubber isn't my sole filtration system either as I have a rather large 75 gal sump/fug with DSB and live rock. I also run a 950gph pump, a sea swirl, and two tunze 6025 powerheads for the SPS and to keep the rockwork clean from all the food and detrious. It is a very easy system to maintain this way.

If your priority is limited to simply wanting to reduce phosphates and nitrates to undetectible levels, then I'd recommend that you plan to keep running your existing filtration for the next year or so and just add a well designed scrubber to your system. You will enjoy the hobby a whole lot more with the safety net that a simple scubber provides.










[/QUOTE]

[KafudaFish]

Ok thought about it last night and the only thing I saw was there was another factor influencing the whole one sided deal.

Thanks for the further explaination to it. If I do one I am guessing a vertical one is the way to go since I am already using the space to begin with and I like to maximize things.

[cmbspd]

Why use 2700K bulbs? I'm just now setting up my ATS, but most of what I've read suggested >5000K so I'm assuming this is a relatively new innovation. Does the lower K favor green turf algae compared to the higher K bulbs for growing chaeto in a fuge?

[BluScrnOdeth]

Originally Posted by KafudaFish

Ok thought about it last night and the only thing I saw was there was another factor influencing the whole one sided deal.

Thanks for the further explaination to it. If I do one I am guessing a vertical one is the way to go since I am already using the space to begin with and I like to maximize things.

Yeah, verticle is the way to go if you have the room. One sided is for those with limited width area where they want to put them though it requires more sqin of verticle space. Each has their purpose provided the amount of space you have to play with.

[Floyd R Turbo]

Originally Posted by cmbspd

Why use 2700K bulbs? I'm just now setting up my ATS, but most of what I've read suggested >5000K so I'm assuming this is a relatively new innovation. Does the lower K favor green turf algae compared to the higher K bulbs for growing chaeto in a fuge?

From http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/...c.php?f=9&t=68

Q: What kind of light do I need?
A: Experience has shown that at least a 23 Watt Compact Fluorescent (CFL) bulb, of the 2700K or 3000K (“warm” or “soft”) color, works best. One on each side of the screen, about 4" from the screen, and pointed to the middle of the screen. And note that 23W is "at least", unless it's for a nano. These CFL lights have also shown to only last about three months before their power drops off, even though they "look" fine. T5HO bulbs have also shown tremendous scrubber growth, although they are more difficult to design and build; their spread of light from side to side is superior to CFL bulbs. There is an upper limit to CFL bulb size; CFL bulbs in the 45 watt range are at the top, whereas anything higher than that will tend to “cook” the screen in one spot. If you must have more than 45 watts per side, use two smaller bulbs instead. The lighting just needs to be spread out more evenly, and not so concentrated in one spot. If you use CFL bulbs and they are not floodlights (which have built-in reflectors), be sure to get "CFL reflectors" so you can reflect the light to the screen.

So I don't know where you read that 5000K is the proper spectrum, it will probably work and you will get algae to grow (BluScrnOdeth is getting algae to grow using 50/50 PC lamp!!) but the best type of algae that you want will grow best until 2700-3000K grow lamps, like the ones they use for hydroponics. That's how I came across those lamps from Avant Garden Hydroponics (in my build post)

[srusso]

Originally Posted by cmbspd

Why use 2700K bulbs? I'm just now setting up my ATS, but most of what I've read suggested >5000K so I'm assuming this is a relatively new innovation. Does the lower K favor green turf algae compared to the higher K bulbs for growing chaeto in a fuge?

Yes, use 27k... very easy to find. At homedepot they have 4 23w bulbs in a pack for .97 cent!!!



they are ecosmart brand, stock up on them, you need to replace the bulbs every 3 months. They will still be working by the end if the 3 months but they will have lost most of their par value. I keep my used bulbs in a box to be used in lamps around the house, etc...

They are 23w bulbs that are labeled as 100w equivalent.

[cmbspd]

So I don't know where you read that 5000K is the proper spectrum

Thanks! Several threads at reefcentral.com talk about 5000K bulbs (including the "algae scrubber basics" thread), so I appreciate the updated recommendation.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Originally Posted by Floyd R Turbo

From http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/...c.php?f=9&t=68



So I don't know where you read that 5000K is the proper spectrum, it will probably work and you will get algae to grow (BluScrnOdeth is getting algae to grow using 50/50 PC lamp!!) but the best type of algae that you want will grow best until 2700-3000K grow lamps, like the ones they use for hydroponics. That's how I came across those lamps from Avant Garden Hydroponics (in my build post)

BTW, just so you know, i think this weekend i'm going to build a similar system to yours. I can always remove the CFL and put in LED to test them out on one side. I like your layout and it was similar to what i had in mind. Hopefully this wekend.

[stevie-o]

Originally Posted by chrissu

I'm now able to focus on enjoying the hobby again. :-) I've always believed in frequent feedings and since I don't have to worry about water quality nearly as much, I can focus on watching my corals and fish grow without worring about over doing it with the food. I'm also not spending my weekends doing water changes (I think they are way over rated with supplementation available).
stc=1&d=1297916470[/IMG]

wait so with an ATS you don't have to do water changes?

[srusso]

Originally Posted by stevie-o

wait so with an ATS you don't have to do water changes?

Fish Only Tanks... no, just top off the tank and your done

Reef tank... you should do small water changes to keep the ionic balance and replace trace elements.

[BluScrnOdeth]

Originally Posted by stevie-o

wait so with an ATS you don't have to do water changes?

IF your system is well balanced you may not have to. BUT you will have to use suppliments but I think that is more expensive. I haven't changed my water in about a year and I use supplements. Its easier for me to supplinent my 300gal than it is to do water changes but it costs more.

[Allmost]

Are there any successful SPS tanks, running this ?

can we get some pics of SPS corals in ATS filtered tanks ?

[stevie-o]

wow off i go to the drawing board. makin myself an ats for my biocube i will definitely start next week when i have the free time.

[BluScrnOdeth]

I grow corals in mine with ATS.