Microfood culture: phytoplanktons, Rotifers, ciliates, Artemia, and copepods - Page 3

rsman · 12/07/2004, 03:20 AM

Has anyone here actually tried to cultivate copepods in this manner?

YES! me along with many of us every day for a LONG time!

Is there a general guideline which could point me in the right direction aside from the cultivating solution being "green?"
NO

it takes experience, which i do realize is something you dont have yet

at first you do have to add a lot of phyto, but not 3gallons as for an example of a how much green if its as dark as an empty mountain dew bottle under bright light its more than plenty, though not specifically too much, its more than you need. wait a day, see how much it changes if its clear you needed to be darker, if its a very very light tint then thats about right, if its darker then you gave too much.

secondarly you should try IA (http://www.instant-algae.com/) they are located near the bay area

Soujirou · 12/07/2004, 03:58 AM

Can't say that I'm surprised, but it's great to hear from someone who has experience in this. Thanks for sharing.

With this new info, for starters, I think I might fill my culture tank with ~2 gallons of saltwater and then add phytoplankton until the solution becomes a lime green (similar to your Mountain Dew bottle example)? I could then check on it the day after and see how close the solution is to being clear and add phytoplankton accordingly. Sound like a good plan? I'll have the copepods in this Wednesday so I'm trying to prep up the best I can.

BTW, thank you for the link.

Do you suggest anything from their store that you really liked? Certain strains for example like Nanno.? Any other tips you could give me on culturing copepods would be great. Thanks!

Soujirou · 12/07/2004, 04:26 AM

Have you tried their Phyto-Feast Live product yet? Apparently, it just came out in September of 2004 and from what I've read so far, it appears to be great stuff!

Atticus · 12/07/2004, 05:16 PM

As far as what to feed variety is the best, but if money is an issue stick with nano as a base and add what ever else you can afford. Like a Tet or Iso. If the feast is a premix that too would be ok, but I personally like to know what I am feeding. I know it may sound a bit anal, but when you are breeding fish you really like to see what works and stick with it.

Soujirou · 12/07/2004, 09:12 PM

Thanks for the advice. I'm a very out-going and friendly guy, but when it comes to certain things, many people would call me a perfectionist. So no, I don't think it's anal to suggest that.

As a college student, however, I have to see what I can afford and what's most cost effective relative to its benefits. From what this Phyto-Feast Live product has in it, its concentrations as well as its price, it would seem ideal by far.

As an aside, have you cultivated copepods yourself and if so, what strains were they and what types of phytoplankton did you feed them?

sasa311 · 02/08/2005, 12:44 PM

Hello!
My question is that how long can a phyto-plankton culture can live without water movement? For example if I want to bring 1l green water to my friend in a bottle, hogy much time do I have?
Will it die after 30minutes?

rsman · 02/08/2005, 01:01 PM

well it does depend on the species, but if stored cool, and in the dark, a week, 2 for some, and even 3 for some others.

Atticus · 02/08/2005, 01:01 PM

You can actually keep phyto alive in refidgeration for a couple months or outside of refridgeration it will live for a few days/ weeks, but you will lose some nutritional value in either case.

Atticus · 02/08/2005, 01:02 PM

Ok guess we posted at the same time... What he said...

Bababou · 02/08/2005, 10:55 PM

ok ive been reading about cultivating copapodes (bad speeling i know) but were can i get them to stat cultivating them.
Rob

Bababou · 02/08/2005, 10:55 PM

ok ive been reading about cultivating copapodes (bad speeling i know) but were can i get them to stat cultivating them.
Rob

Bababou · 02/08/2005, 10:56 PM

ok ive been reading about cultivating copapodes (bad speeling i know) but were can i get them to stat cultivating them.
Rob

Bababou · 02/08/2005, 10:57 PM

post glitch sorry

jaybro · 02/26/2005, 01:33 PM

As a side note to the above listed information... I have problems with slow growth of phyto in my basement due to the lower temperature (69f mostly). While the the phyto still grows, it grows slow. I wanted to stick with the separate 2l bottles rather than switching to one large culture so I would still be ok if a culture crashed and I didn't want to heat all the bottles separately.

To resolve this I took a standard 20gallon tank (I had one lying around, one of the 'long' or 'breeding' tanks would be more effective size wise) and filled it partially up with rodi water. I then place a heater in the tank to warm the tank water to the desired temperature, and my 2l bottles sit inside the tank and are warmed by the tank water. I keep phyto bottles on one side of the tank next to the light strips, and rots/bs on the nonlit side. I add a tad of bleach to the rodi tank water to prevent anything from growing in it so it stays clear. To date I've not changed the water in the warming tank, but it's not like it's tough to change a tank of sterile water in an empty tank when the time comes! (i.e. keeping the tank water clear for light transmission to the phyto bottles.) On that note, you don't have to have very much water in the tank to effectively transfer the heat to the bottles.

Teremei · 03/10/2005, 12:19 PM

Has anybody tried the IPSF method of beeding pods? Specifically, amphipods only?

They sell a kit, and you can use a dedicated 10 gal breeding tank the same as the link provides. Cept it seems like a different method.

Scroll to the 'pod breeding kit.

http://www.ipsf.com/#anchor45957

NicoleC · 05/22/2005, 10:04 AM

For those who have asked about copepods, you can get clean starter cultures of Nitokra lacustris and Tigriopus californicus at EssentialLiveFeeds.com, and a 3-species mix at www.oceapods.com. Also, Reed Mariculure offers starter cultures of copepods as well.

lillibirdy · 05/28/2005, 11:45 AM

Ok another ignorant newbie here, I just ordered some copepods and assumed with a rubble pile in my main tank they would breed... without much thought from me. The purpose is, so my 5 mo old FOWRL tank will SOME day have a mandrin in it. Now I read I need to feed them phyto? I also was going to have them in my ten gallon QT tank with a rubble pile. Is there any fish that WON't eat them, to keep in my QT tank to keep in cycled (and interesting, as it is in my living room). I am not thrilled with the idea of green water, but may have to go to plan b if necc.
KathyW

Atticus · 05/28/2005, 01:14 PM

You will need to use a phytoplankton to culture pods and I would suggest culturing them out side the tank and then just fedding them to the tank as needed. For greenwater I suggest buying directly from ReefTreats on eBay. They offer a good product at a low price. I have bought their 12 pack before when I was in a crunch since I had stopped producing phyto due to school obligations. They also offer rotifers which are excellent fry and coral food.

lillibirdy · 06/07/2005, 01:48 PM

Thanks Atticus. If I keep them in a ten gallon for example, with an airline, HOB filter and a rubble pile. How much phyto do I need to feed them?

Can I do it in a tank that looks normal with maybe one fish in it, or do I have to go green...lol.

Atticus · 06/07/2005, 01:55 PM

LOL, for a real culture NO FISH!!!

Even one would graze on them all day. As far as the HOB goes you would need a small pore size sponge or filter over the intake tube to ensure the pods would not get sucked up and blended. Feeding only requires a light tinting of the water a minimum of once per day. If you remember and have the time tinting the water twice a day would be more benificial and lead to faster and more dense population growth.

Bugger · 06/07/2005, 03:27 PM

How viable will phytoplanton remain when you use skimmers and pumps to move water. I was thinking of having multiple tanks overflowing into each other with different cultures in each with a large skimmer in the sump.
Will this work?

rsman · 06/07/2005, 07:46 PM

How viable will phytoplanton remain when you use skimmers and pumps to move water. I was thinking of having multiple tanks overflowing into each other with different cultures in each with a large skimmer in the sump.
Will this work?

after repetitive head on desk banging
NO!!!
NO!!!
NO!!!

that skimmer will remove all of the phyto, and at the same time nicely remove most of the phyto food!!

the "combined" aproach wont work one will out compete for space and you will have 1 algae type

mixing water means contaminants if you reuse water like that at all it needs to be specially filtered

Atticus · 06/07/2005, 07:55 PM

Culturing of any live food needs to be done in a lab quality manner or you will get contamination. There is no set and forget method for culturing live foods. I guess the key to this is.... You get out what you put into it, or more often than not less than you put into it...

That is why so many people are switching to just buying prepared foods as they are already done for you and most likely better quality.

lillibirdy · 06/07/2005, 11:03 PM

I am confused then. If skimmers remove phyto and phyto food, how come so many reefers have pods in there tanks. What with the fish eating them, and the skimmers removing food? Totally not being sarcastic here, I am confused, and don't want to waste my bottle of pods...

Atticus · 06/07/2005, 11:32 PM

THe pods are able to find food and shelter in the tank, but they are not able to build large populations, in a predatory environment, like they would be able to in a controlled and safe area. The reason phytoplankton additions are good for a reef tank is that you increase the available food for micro-organisms thereby increasing there survivability. Just as increasing the size of a rubble pile will increase the amount of shelter. These are small ways to increase in-tank pods, but direct culturing and feeding of the desired critters is far more productive and benificial.

12/07/2004, 03:20 AM	#51
rsman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Calhoun, Mo. USA Posts: 2,239	Has anyone here actually tried to cultivate copepods in this manner? YES! me along with many of us every day for a LONG time! Is there a general guideline which could point me in the right direction aside from the cultivating solution being "green?" NO it takes experience, which i do realize is something you dont have yet at first you do have to add a lot of phyto, but not 3gallons as for an example of a how much green if its as dark as an empty mountain dew bottle under bright light its more than plenty, though not specifically too much, its more than you need. wait a day, see how much it changes if its clear you needed to be darker, if its a very very light tint then thats about right, if its darker then you gave too much. secondarly you should try IA (http://www.instant-algae.com/) they are located near the bay area __________________ smile its all good

12/07/2004, 03:58 AM	#52
Soujirou Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 356	Can't say that I'm surprised, but it's great to hear from someone who has experience in this. Thanks for sharing. With this new info, for starters, I think I might fill my culture tank with ~2 gallons of saltwater and then add phytoplankton until the solution becomes a lime green (similar to your Mountain Dew bottle example)? I could then check on it the day after and see how close the solution is to being clear and add phytoplankton accordingly. Sound like a good plan? I'll have the copepods in this Wednesday so I'm trying to prep up the best I can. BTW, thank you for the link. Do you suggest anything from their store that you really liked? Certain strains for example like Nanno.? Any other tips you could give me on culturing copepods would be great. Thanks! __________________ -Nick Current Tank Info: 25gal SW tank w/ 70+ lbs of LR, 30 lbs LS, cleaner crew. 10gal sump/fuge, return utilizing SCWD. Closed loop utilizing SCWD. Four-line Wrasse, Psychedelic Mandarin, Green Star Polyps, various 'shrooms and zos and an Australian Sea Apple ^_^x

12/07/2004, 04:26 AM	#53
Soujirou Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 356	Have you tried their Phyto-Feast Live product yet? Apparently, it just came out in September of 2004 and from what I've read so far, it appears to be great stuff! __________________ -Nick Current Tank Info: 25gal SW tank w/ 70+ lbs of LR, 30 lbs LS, cleaner crew. 10gal sump/fuge, return utilizing SCWD. Closed loop utilizing SCWD. Four-line Wrasse, Psychedelic Mandarin, Green Star Polyps, various 'shrooms and zos and an Australian Sea Apple ^_^x

12/07/2004, 05:16 PM	#54
Atticus Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Independence, Iowa Posts: 5,841	As far as what to feed variety is the best, but if money is an issue stick with nano as a base and add what ever else you can afford. Like a Tet or Iso. If the feast is a premix that too would be ok, but I personally like to know what I am feeding. I know it may sound a bit anal, but when you are breeding fish you really like to see what works and stick with it. __________________ "Good enough is the enemy of excellence." Current Tank Info: As many as the wife will allow....

12/07/2004, 09:12 PM	#55
Soujirou Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 356	Thanks for the advice. I'm a very out-going and friendly guy, but when it comes to certain things, many people would call me a perfectionist. So no, I don't think it's anal to suggest that. As a college student, however, I have to see what I can afford and what's most cost effective relative to its benefits. From what this Phyto-Feast Live product has in it, its concentrations as well as its price, it would seem ideal by far. As an aside, have you cultivated copepods yourself and if so, what strains were they and what types of phytoplankton did you feed them? __________________ -Nick Current Tank Info: 25gal SW tank w/ 70+ lbs of LR, 30 lbs LS, cleaner crew. 10gal sump/fuge, return utilizing SCWD. Closed loop utilizing SCWD. Four-line Wrasse, Psychedelic Mandarin, Green Star Polyps, various 'shrooms and zos and an Australian Sea Apple ^_^x

02/08/2005, 12:44 PM	#56
sasa311 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hungary, Budapest Posts: 61	Hello! My question is that how long can a phyto-plankton culture can live without water movement? For example if I want to bring 1l green water to my friend in a bottle, hogy much time do I have? Will it die after 30minutes? __________________ Do you know where is Hungary? It is the heart of Europe. Current Tank Info: My reef tank is 450 litres. There are soft corals in it mainly.

02/08/2005, 01:01 PM	#57
rsman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Calhoun, Mo. USA Posts: 2,239	well it does depend on the species, but if stored cool, and in the dark, a week, 2 for some, and even 3 for some others. __________________ smile its all good

02/08/2005, 01:02 PM	#59
Atticus Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Independence, Iowa Posts: 5,841	Ok guess we posted at the same time... What he said... __________________ "Good enough is the enemy of excellence." Current Tank Info: As many as the wife will allow....

02/08/2005, 10:55 PM	#60
Bababou Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 454	ok ive been reading about cultivating copapodes (bad speeling i know) but were can i get them to stat cultivating them. Rob

02/08/2005, 10:56 PM	#62
Bababou Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 454	ok ive been reading about cultivating copapodes (bad speeling i know) but were can i get them to stat cultivating them. Rob

02/08/2005, 10:57 PM	#63
Bababou Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 454	post glitch sorry __________________ Off for the next grand adventure Current Tank Info: 14 gallon BioCube BB and a lot of LR

02/26/2005, 01:33 PM	#64
jaybro Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 220	As a side note to the above listed information... I have problems with slow growth of phyto in my basement due to the lower temperature (69f mostly). While the the phyto still grows, it grows slow. I wanted to stick with the separate 2l bottles rather than switching to one large culture so I would still be ok if a culture crashed and I didn't want to heat all the bottles separately. To resolve this I took a standard 20gallon tank (I had one lying around, one of the 'long' or 'breeding' tanks would be more effective size wise) and filled it partially up with rodi water. I then place a heater in the tank to warm the tank water to the desired temperature, and my 2l bottles sit inside the tank and are warmed by the tank water. I keep phyto bottles on one side of the tank next to the light strips, and rots/bs on the nonlit side. I add a tad of bleach to the rodi tank water to prevent anything from growing in it so it stays clear. To date I've not changed the water in the warming tank, but it's not like it's tough to change a tank of sterile water in an empty tank when the time comes! (i.e. keeping the tank water clear for light transmission to the phyto bottles.) On that note, you don't have to have very much water in the tank to effectively transfer the heat to the bottles. __________________ "Dang Jay, why did you put Xenia all over your tank? -- I didn't, I bought a decorator crab." Current Tank Info: Too darned many, or not enough... depending on if you ask my wife, or me. Last edited by jaybro; 02/26/2005 at 01:48 PM.

03/10/2005, 12:19 PM	#65
Teremei Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: West Chicago (one hour west) Posts: 2,751	Breeding amphipods Has anybody tried the IPSF method of beeding pods? Specifically, amphipods only? They sell a kit, and you can use a dedicated 10 gal breeding tank the same as the link provides. Cept it seems like a different method. Scroll to the 'pod breeding kit. http://www.ipsf.com/#anchor45957

05/22/2005, 10:04 AM	#66
NicoleC Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Madison, AL Posts: 8,875	For those who have asked about copepods, you can get clean starter cultures of Nitokra lacustris and Tigriopus californicus at EssentialLiveFeeds.com, and a 3-species mix at www.oceapods.com. Also, Reed Mariculure offers starter cultures of copepods as well. __________________ Don't count your gobies before they've metamorphasized. Current Tank Info: 40g Indo-Pacific lagoon with tank bred livestock

05/28/2005, 11:45 AM	#67
lillibirdy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 521	Ok another ignorant newbie here, I just ordered some copepods and assumed with a rubble pile in my main tank they would breed... without much thought from me. The purpose is, so my 5 mo old FOWRL tank will SOME day have a mandrin in it. Now I read I need to feed them phyto? I also was going to have them in my ten gallon QT tank with a rubble pile. Is there any fish that WON't eat them, to keep in my QT tank to keep in cycled (and interesting, as it is in my living room). I am not thrilled with the idea of green water, but may have to go to plan b if necc. KathyW

05/28/2005, 01:14 PM	#68
Atticus Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Independence, Iowa Posts: 5,841	You will need to use a phytoplankton to culture pods and I would suggest culturing them out side the tank and then just fedding them to the tank as needed. For greenwater I suggest buying directly from ReefTreats on eBay. They offer a good product at a low price. I have bought their 12 pack before when I was in a crunch since I had stopped producing phyto due to school obligations. They also offer rotifers which are excellent fry and coral food. __________________ "Good enough is the enemy of excellence." Current Tank Info: As many as the wife will allow....

06/07/2005, 01:48 PM	#69
lillibirdy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 521	Thanks Atticus. If I keep them in a ten gallon for example, with an airline, HOB filter and a rubble pile. How much phyto do I need to feed them? Can I do it in a tank that looks normal with maybe one fish in it, or do I have to go green...lol.

06/07/2005, 01:55 PM	#70
Atticus Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Independence, Iowa Posts: 5,841	LOL, for a real culture NO FISH!!! Even one would graze on them all day. As far as the HOB goes you would need a small pore size sponge or filter over the intake tube to ensure the pods would not get sucked up and blended. Feeding only requires a light tinting of the water a minimum of once per day. If you remember and have the time tinting the water twice a day would be more benificial and lead to faster and more dense population growth. __________________ "Good enough is the enemy of excellence." Current Tank Info: As many as the wife will allow....

06/07/2005, 03:27 PM	#71
Bugger Moved On Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: ontario Posts: 1,104	How viable will phytoplanton remain when you use skimmers and pumps to move water. I was thinking of having multiple tanks overflowing into each other with different cultures in each with a large skimmer in the sump. Will this work?

06/07/2005, 07:46 PM	#72
rsman Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Calhoun, Mo. USA Posts: 2,239	How viable will phytoplanton remain when you use skimmers and pumps to move water. I was thinking of having multiple tanks overflowing into each other with different cultures in each with a large skimmer in the sump. Will this work? after repetitive head on desk banging NO!!! NO!!! NO!!! that skimmer will remove all of the phyto, and at the same time nicely remove most of the phyto food!! the "combined" aproach wont work one will out compete for space and you will have 1 algae type mixing water means contaminants if you reuse water like that at all it needs to be specially filtered __________________ smile its all good

06/07/2005, 07:55 PM	#73
Atticus Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Independence, Iowa Posts: 5,841	Culturing of any live food needs to be done in a lab quality manner or you will get contamination. There is no set and forget method for culturing live foods. I guess the key to this is.... You get out what you put into it, or more often than not less than you put into it... That is why so many people are switching to just buying prepared foods as they are already done for you and most likely better quality. __________________ "Good enough is the enemy of excellence." Current Tank Info: As many as the wife will allow....

06/07/2005, 11:03 PM	#74
lillibirdy Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 521	I am confused then. If skimmers remove phyto and phyto food, how come so many reefers have pods in there tanks. What with the fish eating them, and the skimmers removing food? Totally not being sarcastic here, I am confused, and don't want to waste my bottle of pods...

06/07/2005, 11:32 PM	#75
Atticus Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Independence, Iowa Posts: 5,841	THe pods are able to find food and shelter in the tank, but they are not able to build large populations, in a predatory environment, like they would be able to in a controlled and safe area. The reason phytoplankton additions are good for a reef tank is that you increase the available food for micro-organisms thereby increasing there survivability. Just as increasing the size of a rubble pile will increase the amount of shelter. These are small ways to increase in-tank pods, but direct culturing and feeding of the desired critters is far more productive and benificial. __________________ "Good enough is the enemy of excellence." Current Tank Info: As many as the wife will allow....