best skimmer for up to $500

[UCanDoIt]

I have never owned a A110, so I can't comment on that unit. My all time favorite is the A150 and will support any tank size between 75g-180g range easily. If you are thinking of putting the A110 on your current 75g reef w/29g fuge, I think it's too small as you'll be running up against the upper limit of this skimmer. I know that the A150 is quite a bit more, but you will room for growth and anyting you throw at it, the skimmer will be able to handle. For the price range you're thinking of and if it's for your above setup, the ATi BM150 would be a better choice. I have a 75g heavy bioload reef and I have a Deltec APF600 on it and I don't feel it's overkill, it's just right. If I wasn't restricted to very limited space, I would have bought the H&S A150 instead for my 75g.

[pjf]

Thanks for your response, UCanDoIt!

I'm going to draft plans for a two new skimmer setups: one for an A150 and another for a BM150. I don't know if everything will fit in my cabinet but I'm not going to know until I put everything down on my computer drafting board. For the A150, I will use your overflow plumbing sketch.

Three questions:

-What is the highest sump water level suitable for the BM150?
-Will the A150's return pipe clear a 12" high standard AGA sump tank? (I'm not building a platform for a skimmer.)
-Will the A150's return pipe clear a 16" high standard AGA sump tank?

Thanks again. You are a fountain of information!

[UCanDoIt]

Everyone on the BM thread has been saying that about 6"-7" works the best, but I know that anywhere from 5"-9" will work.

I think the exhaust is 17", so it will easily clear the 12", 16" might be close... don't blame me if you need to raise 1/2".

[sjm817]

Originally posted by UCanDoIt
pjf - plumbing the skimmer to be gravity fed by your tank's overflow does not give you better control, but it does give you an edge to skim out the most concentrated protein, oils, foods, organics which is skim off the surface of your tank and passes through your overflow box... so, if you grab that raw tank water before it does anything, you'll have a slight edge in better skimmate. subjectively, it is 15%-20% better skimming than non-recirculating skimmers. the total control comes from being able to pass the raw tank water through the skimmer at a rate that you choose, so you are not subject to what the non-recirculating skimmer's pump pushes through the skimmer. the pump on a non-recirculating skimmer has 2 function, first is to pass water through the skimmer and second is to create foam. on the recirc, you control the water passing through by either a ball valve on the gravity feed or a powerhead that is properly rated for your skimmer and you choose that rate, so that you can have it slower if you want or faster.

I think he was asking about the difference between feeding a recric with a pump Vs direct overflow, not recirc Vs non recirc. In both cases, you are getting water from the overflow, but if you use a feed pump, it hits a sump chamber first.

when i use to own non-recirculating in sump only skimmers and this is true about the new ATi Bubblemaster skimmers as well, if i put my hand in the sump to adjust the water level within the skimmer to adjust the bubble breaking level, if my hand touches the sump water (hard to avoid), the skimmer foam head breaks down and may take awhile to get started again, so fine adjustments is a PITA sometimes. when you feed certain foods, dose certain additives, put your arm in the tank to move things around, same thing happens and it could be hours before the skimmer starts up again. on high end records, there's no affect when you pump your hand into the sump, also when i dose from within the sump, it doesn't affect my skimmer much either as it may slow down just a little bit and kick right up again and start skimming, so it is not overly sensitive to chemical changes within the water. i hope this makes sense.

I haven't really seen that. I've used recirc and non recirc skimmers. Certain foods such as PE Mysis will collapse the foam head on any skimmer. Also, If I was was working on the tank, it would affect the foam head either way. I cant say that both were affected as much as the other. I'd have to do more detailed study.

Can you explain WHY a recirc skimmer is effected less than non recirc?

[UCanDoIt]

sjm817 is correct on the gravity feed, the raw tank water hits the skimmer directly, whereas feeding from the sump, the raw tank water hits the sump first and then is pulled into the powerhead that feeds the skimmer. a lot of the oils that float on the surface may not get pumped into the skimmer because when it hits the sump, it floats to the surface of the sump water whereas the powerhead is pulling water from the bottom of the sump.

I wish I could explain why, but I cannot. I can just tell you what happen and don't have a clue why it happens. On 2 different side by side test and evaluation that Ed did, one that he setup and the other I setup in his office: (1) LifeReef SVS3-24 vs Deltec APF600 on 180g medium bioload FOWLR and (2) ATi BM150 vs Deltec AFP600 on 100g heavy feeding REEF... I personally saw after feeding frozen mysis, frozen cyclopeze, and certain frozen formula cubes, all skimmers lost it's foam head. Within an hour, the APF600 was up and running again, LifeReef took over 2 hours and BM150 took over 4 hours.

[Siapin]

This is amazing info that I tripped across.

I'm in the market for a skimmer for my 40g tank, and I'm considering some of these above, and I plan on running the skimmer half day if needed.

I'd like a skimmer that isn't affected by me putting my hand in the water, nor dosing. Differing water level in sump is okay. I have a Tunze Osmolator that keeps my water at the same level anyways, so that's not much of a problem.

My sump is somewhat small, but I think I can make any necessary modifications if needed in order to fit whichever skimmer I go with.

My budget is around $300-500 more or less. Any more info?

Thanks, Daniel

[kodyboy]

siapin,
Tunze 9010, great skimmer!

[pjf]

Originally posted by Siapin
I'd like a skimmer that isn't affected by me putting my hand in the water, nor dosing. Differing water level in sump is okay. I have a Tunze Osmolator that keeps my water at the same level anyways, so that's not much of a problem.

My sump is somewhat small, but I think I can make any necessary modifications if needed in order to fit whichever skimmer I go with.

If you have limited space in your sump, I agree with Kodyboy that there is no better skimmer than the Tunze 9010 ($327). It is an enduring value for those wanting a small, quiet and well-supported skimmer. It will work in water levels between 4 and 11 inches deep. You can save money by finding a retailer willing to waive the shipping fee such as www.aquacave.com.

Back in January when this thread started, external recirculating skimmers and mesh-wheel skimmers were in the vogue and we were salivating over the H&S A110-F2000 ($460 at www.finsreef.com) and the ATI Bubble Master 160 (~$400 at www.reefgeek.com). Now these skimmers have been priced out of the market by skimmers such as the Aqua Euro Recirculating 135 ($195 at www.reefnut.com/reefshop).

If you have space next to your sump but not inside the sump, an external recirculating skimmer is something to consider. Unfortunately, you will have to rework your plumbing (http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/...r_Plumbing.GIF). You may want to get in contact with Christine (formerly UCanDoIt) at home.wwdb.org/kmaintl/ to see what the most consistent recirculating skimmers are. Please pass along to us what she says.

[Reef Sponger]

I just bought my H&S A150 from KM Asscoiates Int'l and Ed (owner) is a wealth of info (really knows skimmers). pfj gave you the link to their webpage. I've had my H&S A150 for 2 weeks now and it broke in on the 3rd day and has been getting better daily. H&S is a little on the pricey, but from my 2 weeks experience so far, it's totally worth it.

My H&S is a recirculating skimmer that can be setup externally or in sump. I have it in sump and fed by a Eheim Compact1000 pump, just right. I've been studying gravity feed and not sure if I'm going to do it yet as my skimmer is performing perfectly and much better than my previous skimmers on this same tank. Here's a photo that Ed from kmaintl emailed to me that shows how the plumbing should be setup for gravity feed from the tank's overflow.

[Siapin]

so it sounds like that recirculating technology is the most efficient, and probably my best way to go....considering the info stated.

does it make that big of a difference? Or will I just have to buy and find out myself?

Now here are my recirculating choices:
H&S A110-F2000 ($460)
Bubble Master 160 (~$400)
Aqua Euro Recirculating 135 ($195)

You stated that the Aqua Euro priced those other two out of the market...but is the Aqua Euro as efficient as the other two?

Are these going to be as quiet and simple as the Tunze 9010, yet be more efficient (due to the skimming of direct overflow water)?

[kodyboy]

The aquaeuro recirc 135 will not be as good stock as the others, including the tunze 9010. With a pump switch to a genx4100nw the aquaeuro becomes far more efficient, with 1000lph possible. An oceanrunner pump would do the same thing. Still the people who have stock recirc 135s are pulling out lots of skimmate per day so as it it is a good skimmer, well built and really inexpensive.
I have yet to find a skimmer as quiet as the Tunze.

[jest]

Kodyboy

are those pumps you mentioned direct replacements for the aquaeuro pump ? meaning , can i just swap those pumps onto the 135's body or is there some machining involved ?

[pjf]

The ATI Bubble Master 160 (~$400) is an in-sump skimmer and not a recirculating skimmer. It does get great reviews for the foam production from its mesh-wheel pump that I believe is made by Sicci.

People rave about the expensive H&S A150-F2001 ($650) but I haven't found much about its little brother, the A110-F2000 ($460), with the exception of these two posts:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...10#post9653400
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...10#post9011681

[Siapin]

what about bermudas?

[kodyboy]

I am not sure, from what I can tell you would need some DIY to make it work, probably due to metric fittings, but nothing a dremel, some PVC, and a little weld-on 16 can't fix Of course it might work right away, again it depends on the fittings.

[outy]

just wondering why the octopus 250 recirc 8" body with 2 opt 3000 pumps wouldnt be a good choice for 500$

[skwirl]

it would!!
they are good skimmers, and can be modded to be better... the octo pumps blow a good amount of air..
still not a das though.. the das ex2 would beat the octo, and the ex3 would simply outclass it.. hell the ex2 might..

[Siapin]

Thanks for all the input....after all this...my inkling tells me to go with Tunze 9010.

Quiet
efficient
good price
awesome customer service

any opposed to this conclusion...?

[bergzy]

Originally posted by Siapin
what about bermudas?

the trend lately has been almost full concentration on needlewheel driven protein skimmers. almost everyone thinks the only way to get a decent skimmer is with a needlewheel.

it is with 'my' experience that needlewheels are very efficient at doc removal BUT there are great alternatives without feeling that the only great skimmers are needlewheels.

the biggest annoyance with needlewheels is the necessity (almost) to use the skimmer company's needlewheel pump. yes, you can use alternative pumps etc but may require modification...and yes, you yourself can mod a regular pump to a needlewheel...but hey, not all of us are diy'ers...me being one of them (to a certain degree) and most of the time, dont care to...there are A LOT of us who dont diy.

bermuda's (as other venturi and beckett) skimmers do not need proprietary pumps. they have great freedom in pump choice. thus, you have control of power, efficiency and fav brand.

my bermuda (on my 110g mixed reef) out skims my similar size euroreef 3:1 using similar wattage pumps. let's not even talk about how it does against anb aqua c remora...no comparison. it is even more consistent with skimmate production than the euroreef. once set, i never have to find my sweet spot of skimmate production...just as they claim.

needlewheels may be here to stay but modern venturi's (anti clogging designs like the bermuda has) should be filling a niche in the marine hobby...esp the large tank section where needlewheels get very very expensive for the size of tank they are rated to skim. this is where (imo) becketts and venturis perform better dollarwise for efficiency and effectiveness of skimming.

[kodyboy]

I love my tunze 9010

[David Grigor]

Originally posted by Siapin
Thanks for all the input....after all this...my inkling tells me to go with Tunze 9010.

Quiet
efficient
good price
awesome customer service

any opposed to this conclusion...?

I had a ASM G4+ with the recirc, mesh & gate valve mods. Replaced it with a Tunze 9010. I get virtually the same results in a much smaller ( and most important quiet ) footprint. The only major thing I have noticed like mentioned before, after feeding or stirring up the barebottom the Tunze takes several hours longer to start skimming again vs. the G4 recirc does. But the end of the day skimmate production ( both wet ) and color are very comparable.

However, I'm running on a 110g heavily stocked tank and wouldn't be comfortable going on a tank much larger. So on a 150g I'd look at the 9020 which is over your $500 budget. At minimum would add the $100 foam extraction cup being a little taller you can add a bit more air to help increase performance plus won't have to empty as often. I'd for sure do that over the 9015 for the same price.

When money allows, I do plan to get the 9020 ( which is just a dual 9010 with foam extractor cups ) for the 110g becuase I really like the small footprint, quiet and overall ease of use. I will then move the 9010 to 75g frag system.

[RichConley]

Originally posted by skwirl
it would!!
they are good skimmers, and can be modded to be better... the octo pumps blow a good amount of air..
still not a das though.. the das ex2 would beat the octo, and the ex3 would simply outclass it.. hell the ex2 might..

Really have to disagree here. An Octo meshmodded is going to pull 2-3 times as much air as the DAS, and is a bigger body. Getting 40scfh (1200 lph) out of each pump is very reasonable.

[Siapin]

Originally posted by David Grigor
At minimum would add the $100 foam extraction cup being a little taller you add a bit more air to help increase performance plus won't have to empty as often. I'd for sure do that over the 9015 for the same price.

From what I understand, the extra $100 inverted collection cup is just for getting the skimmate into a container rather than filling up standard cup. Can you explain how performance is increased by that small addition of air in the chamber?

And does anybody have experience with both cups and notice a difference in performance?

[mavgi]

Originally posted by Siapin
Thanks for all the input....after all this...my inkling tells me to go with Tunze 9010.

Quiet
efficient
good price
awesome customer service

any opposed to this conclusion...?

the tunze good skimmer but if you can wait i suggest you to go with the BM160 this skimmer will preform better(what ever you decide good luck) .

here some picture of it :

[USC-fan]

any of these skimmer would be overkill on a 40gal tank.