Keys to beating dinoflagellates

[iwishtofish]

Oh, jeez...I think this may be dinoflagellates

[jnarowe]

UGLY dude.

[20 20]

I've been through a 6 day blackout, another 6 day blackout, I run rowaphos and carbon, I went through an 8 day blackout, with scrubbing the rocks before I started, and on the 6th day, and the damn things are coming back. I just went through another 4 day blackout, ending yesterday. I also pulled out every rock yesterday and scrubbed em' down. Here is what it looks like if I let it go/grow - ignore the thing in the red circle, I was using this pic for identification of the thing in the middle of it, but also has a decent (but blurry) image of what I think is dino's surrounding it:



When it starts to grow it looks like short, light colored hair algae type stuff, doesn't start looking like snot until it gets more out of control.

[Zoom]

Originally posted by iwishtofish
Oh, jeez...I think this may be dinoflagellates

That look more like Cyno to me .

[Zoom]

Here is a good picture of my dinos.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I discuss the high pH treatment of dinos here:

Problem Dinoflagellates and pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

[Dack77]

I was going to say the same thing. Looks much more like cyano to me than Dinos.

The dinos that I had were completely different. They created a fairly harder mat in the sandbed and on the rock then what you are looking at. It wasnt slimy, but was obviously dinos from how the mat would disappear with extended periods of non light and I had a ton of swimming organisms. The only way I was able to get rid of them was to do a 5 day period of no light and I kept my PH at 8.4 the best I could. I had a couple corals bleach, but none of them died and now are gaining their base color back quite nicely.

On a side note, I had one Purple Tang in the tank in a 120g with a 35g sump, nothing else. So I was not over feeding and I was still doing 20g water changes every two weeks. The amount of nutrients in the tank was very low, so I have no idea what was actually feeding them. But they multiplied like crazy and was taking over the tank. I had no choice but to do the no lights and PH, and I have been dino free a couple months now. I just hope they dont come back.

[iwishtofish]

Originally posted by Zoom
That look more like Cyno to me .

I sure hope you are right! I never thought I'd be happy to hear someone suggest I have cyano!

Mine has had a few strands in it, but they are short, short-lived, and whispy. Not anything like the picture posted by you, Zoom.

(Don't worry, I'm getting my fair share of nasties at 6 months - green hair/turf, and I suspect bryopsis)

[iwishtofish]

Thanks, Dack77. The more I hear/read the more relieved I am getting (we noobs tend to panic ).

[20 20]

So, if iwishtofish's picture is cyano, any opinions on the snotty stuff in my picture? I've had red cyano that looks nothing like the stuff in my picture. Based on the 'snotty with bubbles in it' description I've read many times to describe dino's, I assumed that's what I had.

Oh, and I have also tried raising my PH, using a daily (or bi-daily) kalk slurry. Never could get the PH high enough (8.4 was the 'normal' high I could get (hit 8.5 once). Ended up stalling several pumps/powerheads due to precipitate clogging them up.

[jnarowe]

Originally posted by Randy Holmes-Farley
I discuss the high pH treatment of dinos here:

Problem Dinoflagellates and pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

Randy...so good to see you!

Interesting article. I am wondering what will happen when my pH gets back down to 8.20 - 8.30.

[Dack77]

20 20,

Your picture for me is too blurry. I cant really make out what it is. I would try and get a slightly better picture. Maybe try one that is zoomed in like your previous photo and one that has a bit bigger field of view so we can get a better look.

I think I took a photo of the stuff I had, I will try and find it when I get home from work so others can see what I was dealing with. I used the article referenced above as my identification and then mixed and matched what I needed to get rid of them.

[20 20]

My camera stinks, as do my photography skills. That's the best pic I could get, and as of today it's gone (just scrubbed the rocks yesterday). No idea if it'll stay 'gone', but based on past history it'll be back. But it looked pretty much like iwishtofish's picture, and that doesn't look like the cyano I'm familiar with.

[jnarowe]

One way to learn if in fact it is dinos, is to blow it off into the water column. If it's dinos, IME, you will find the rocks covered again the next day. Algaes cannot do that.

[uhuru]

Yep, that's how I realized I had dinos and not cyano, the stuff could take over a whole tank in 15 minutes if the circulation were turned off completely.

But hey, you think you have it bad? Check this out:

[jnarowe]

nasty! Is that considered the same thing as "red tide"?

[20 20]

When the stuff in my tank is short, it doesn't blow off. Just looks like short fine lightcolored algae. So what I've got, and what's in the pics above (at the top of the page), might not be dino's?

I'm sooo confused...

[law086]

Whatever I have doesn't have those stringy type things on it. It's just a brown / rust colored mat, with some o2 bubbles in it. If I blow it with a turkey baster, they mostly all blow off, but are back the next day.

I'll try to post some pictures later.

Man.. these things suck big time.

[uhuru]

jonathan - yup red tide is caused by dinoflagellates, consumption of seafood during a bloom has been known to cause human fatalities (clupeoptoxism) as some of these dinos carry palytoxin or other toxins

20 20 - when you turn off all your circulation what happens? does it cloud up around the areas it is growing?

[20 20]

uhuru - what exactly do you mean by 'cloud up'? Do you mean the water around the stuff becomes cloudy? How long would I wait to see if this happens? Can't try this now, as I just scrubbed off the rocks. Heh, unless it's started to grow again while I'm here at work.

[jnarowe]

20 20: If it doesn't blow off, I doubt it's dinos. It is probably just nuisance algae and the fix for that can be very different than the fix for dinos, although I have red that increased pH can help with some algaes. If it is back when you get home, I take that all back!

law086: Looks like you got 'em dude. Read the article linked above by Randy. Try testing for silicates as well. I would stop doing water changes and swap out carbon every 3 - 4 days. Try the lights out too. This seems to lower the dinos ability to multiply so that when you attack them, they can't come back as strong.

[20 20]

Well, I'm back home, and I'm seeing some of the stuff. Not a lot yet, but it's there. Tried 'turkey bastering' it off, no go.

[jnarowe]

It's hard to imagine that it wouldn't blow off if it is dinos, but equally hard to imagine that you scrubed off algae and it's back already.

[20 20]

Heh, like I said, I'm confused... Just tested the water, ca at 430, alk 10.8 dKH, PH 8.20, amonium/nitrite/nitrate all 0. My phosphate test kit must be old, water should have changed to some shade of blue, but ended up a slight yellow.

[jnarowe]

What I found in my struggle with dinos, is that it seemed that high water quality was irrelevant.