brute rubbermaid trash bin

[Racing1]

Sorry people but sounds like another great debate...

And as for BeanAnimal, It is people like you who stop people like me from posting in this forum. You seem to have to have the last word and if anyone else seems to know more than you, You come back with more stuff and try to mix it all up.....

The forum's are here to help people, Not argue with someone just because you seem to think you are always right...


Just my .02 cents worth...


Carry on All....

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by cayars
Again it's a twisted logic and my "towns" definition or standard has nothing to do with it.

NO it is YOUR APPLICATION of THEIR DEFINITION that is wrong. Their logic is NOT twisted, your application of their standards to YOUR understanding of the definition of POTABLE is what is wrong.

You're missing the simple fact of the matter. It's proven on multiple fronts that drinking DI water over long periods causes numerous health issues. It's simply not safe or suitable. This is the heart of the matter you need to address if you want to show it is safe and suitable. Do you not understand this premise?

1) Show those proven studies. (you can't)
2) Show that other POTABLE beverages pass those same "tests" (you can't)

You DO NOT understand the definition of POTABLE and therefore you entire 3 pages of rambling is pointless.

Are you aware that there are basically two kinds of DI resins on the market? One is safe to create water that can be used for drinking or mixing with stuff to be drank while the other is not safe to use

So what? There are two different kinds of oil on the market. Some is safer to put on food than others. Does that mean oil is not consumable?

In one breath you use the narrowest definition of a concept and in the next you paint with a broad brush to back up your statement.

For what it's worth... there are more than two types of "resin".

That is the problem here carlo. You have no frame of context for anything. It appears that all you are capable of doing is reguritating what you have read and applying your lack of knowledge to it.

You even said it yourself. YOUR JUST THE MESSENGER. I submit that your lack of understanding of this subject is severaly lacking. Your acting as a messenger and trying to fill in the gaps, but you don't have the personal experience or understanding to do so.

Ever hear the phrase "too smart for your own good"?

This is all about "RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE". Lets not confuse it with anything else.

As for the question of RO/DI water being able to leach ions from a brute container.... how many times do we have to say "yeah sure that is certainly something to look further into".

[Wryknow]

Heck, I think that the some of the best information comes out arguements. Of course, I'm kind of weird that way Once it gets to name calling it's a lost cause, but until then I say its just good clean fun.......

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by Racing1
Sorry people but sounds like another great debate...

And as for BeanAnimal, It is people like you who stop people like me from posting in this forum. You seem to have to have the last word and if anyone else seems to know more than you, You come back with more stuff and try to mix it all up.....

The forum's are here to help people, Not argue with someone just because you seem to think you are always right...


Just my .02 cents worth...


Carry on All....

And it is people like you who step into a thread and make a personal attack while acting like an innocent bystander. At least Carlo is trying to add to the thread. Your just stirring up trouble.

As for the rest of your barb...

Feel free to use the search button using my name. I spend a majority of my time here helping people.

I don't think I am always right. I don't usually open my trap if I know I am wrong. Just becuase you can't (or don't want to) follow the debte does not give you the right to attack me or my intentions.

Carlo has stated here and in several other threads that RO/DI water IS NOT POTABLE. He has posted pages of what he thinks is supporting evidence that he is correct.

Is YOUR feeling that he is correct? Is your feeling that I (or anybody) that feels (or knows) differently should keep quiet and take his comments as the truth? Is your feeling that I should be silenced becuase you do not agree with me?

[cayars]

BeanAnimal, do me a favor and send a PM to a few of the different RO/DI manufactures who are sponsors on this system and ask them if you should drink from the RO or DI side.

Try a few people like Boomer or Randy. You'll see I'm not alone. While I don't know what Boomer will respond I do know what Randy will tell you since he's the one who informed me in the first place that DI water isn't potable or safe to drink.

I too don't usually get involved unless I know I'm right about something unless it's something you can debate till the cows come home and you want to try and learn something along the way that wouldn't come up without a good detailed debate.

In this case I do think I'm correct and have some major backing in my corner (EPA & Medical field). I feel that I'm justified in saying DI water isn't potable as the EPA and other major "experts" in the field say it's not potable. It also makes sense to me why it would not be potable. It makes sense to me why RO/DI units for drinking purposes have a bypass, etc... This goes with the logic in my mind why it's not considered safe or suitable to drink the DI water. Both from logic and from expert in the field.

You too have your own convictions why you'd consider it potable which defies me but that's ok too. We can agree to disagree. There are far worse things IMHO then worrying about drinking DI water especially in limited amounts.

We of course could go round and round but eventually will most likely end back here at the same point as I don't think either of us wants to budge at all.

I honestly feel that with the medical industry saying it's not safe to drink long term and with the EPA saying DI water isn't potable I don't need to defend myself so I'm not going to anymore.

IMHO it's foolish to fly in contradiction to all we know about it and say it's safe to drink or to tell others it's safe to drink when you don't know what kind of equipment they have and what type of resin they use. To me hearing someone say it's safe is a liability and I'd highly suggest checking with your RO/DI vendor and your doctor before doing so.

Anyway, I'm done with the "potable" debate but will check back in on the thread later to check on the status of the Rubbermaid trash cans and see if I learn anything.

Carlo

PS I've read a lot of your messages in threads Bean and normally agree 99%+ of the time. Outside of this thread, I generally find you very well informed and usually enjoy reading your posts.

Have a good one!

[BeanAnimal]

Originally posted by cayars
BeanAnimal, do me a favor and send a PM to a few of the different RO/DI manufactures who are sponsors on this system and ask them if you should drink from the RO or DI side.

1) I have spent considerable time talking with several of these vendors. A few on a personal basis on many ocassions.

2) What does it matter? Honestly carlo, I am only responding to the "RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE" comments and subsuquent debate.

We can certainly discuss risks of drinking a beverage that has no chlorine or other means to kill bacterie.

We can certainly discuss the risks bacterial blooms in filter housings and other equipment pose.

That has nothing to do with "RO/DI is NOT POTABLE"

Try a few people like Boomer or Randy. You'll see I'm not alone.

Yes, they may warn against certain aspects of drinking RO/DI water. There are risks of bacteria. You may not want to drink the stuff if you are stranded in a desert or trying to recover from a low electrolyte condition (sports?)

However YOU KEEP SAYING IT IS NOT POTABLE. That is the point here

In this case I do think I'm correct and have some major backing in my corner (EPA & Medical field).

No you don't have backing. You have not provided a shred. You keep saying you do (have this proponderance of evidence). Where is it?

IT IS YOUR INTERPRETATION THAT RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE that is the problem here. You are applying "Potable water standards" where they were not intended to be applied. I don't think your wrapping your head around this simple point.

I feel that I'm justified in saying DI water isn't potable as the EPA and other major "experts" in the field say it's not potable.

Where? You keep saying this, but where are the experts and studies and EPA documents?

There are far worse things IMHO then worrying about drinking DI water especially in limited amounts.

Stop the presses! Now your saying it is OK in limited amounts? Would that make it POTABLE? Which is it carlo

I honestly feel that with the medical industry saying it's not safe to drink long term and with the EPA saying DI water isn't potable I don't need to defend myself so I'm not going to anymore.

Where does the EPA say this? Where does the medical industry say this? If they do say it, why do they say it? Lawn darts are illegal because morons stand under them and get brained. What would you say when somebody said "hey man don't touch those lawn darts, they are deadly! The CPSC said they kill people".

Do they say (if they say) that RO/DI is not safe to consume because it has no integral means of killing bacterie and COULD pose a hazard to SOME people? Your cobling together what you have read and using flawed logic to tie it all together.

IMHO it's foolish to fly in contradiction to all we know about it and say it's safe to drink or to tell others it's safe to drink when you don't know what kind of equipment they have and what type of resin they use.

What about drinking beer from your local bar who does not clean the taps as often as possible? Any idea on the bacteria that is there? Have you seen the green and black slime that comes out of beer lines after just a week? Ever get "the runs" after drinking draft beer? What about your icemaker in your freezer? Ever seen the black slime drop out on ice cubes in a public ice maker? Is it foolish to tell people it is OK to drink water from that nightmare of a bacteria farm? Anything can be unsafe under the right conditions.

I am certainly not asking anybody to drink RO/DI water or telling them to go against what their vendor recomends. I am merely pointing out that your statement "RO/DI WATER IS NOT POTABLE" is wrong. It is the entire basis of this entire 3 pages of exchange.

anyway, I'm done with the "potable" debate but will check back in on the thread later to check on the status of the Rubbermaid trash cans and see if I learn anything.

Yes, that is of great interest to me also. Your a smart guy. I just think your confusing the definition of POTABLE with "POTABLE WATER STANDARDS" and drawing a very inaccurate conclusion as fact.

Sorry If any of my responses have been rude. It is not my intent at all. I am blunt in an attempt to convey my point.

I respect that you have an opinion and are attempting to debate it in a kind manner.

PS I've read a lot of your messages in threads Bean and normally agree 99%+ of the time. Outside of this thread, I generally find you very well informed and usually enjoy reading your posts.

Thank you for the compliment. I also hope that we can have a spirited debate about something else soon. I learn, you learn, or somebody learns. All is good.

[trmiv]

president89 hasn't been back to the thread he started for some info. I wonder why...... Poor guy.

[Wryknow]

http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/botwatr.html

Per the FDA, deionization an acceptable method of making "purified water" and it is fit for human consumption.

The WHO (which is a bunch of ridiculously over-zealous health nannies IMHO) has concluded that drinking deionized water is sub-optimal based on several very old, and very questionable studies that showed demineralized water may contribute to malnutrition over time for some people and there are some equally questionable studies that show a long term correlation between drinking highly mineralized water and a decreased incident of some types of heart disease. (Any scientist will tell that correlational studies are the very weakest form of evidence though as the study more likely showed a correlation between regions with highly mineralized water and good health care.) You can believe the WHO if you want to, but even they don't claim that it's dangerous to drink a glass of DI water.

The EPA (and Department of Defense) does not recommend the large scale use of DI water for municiple water systems because it is corrosive on the plumbing and it is susceptible to bacterial infection. That seems like a no-brainer to me. I agree with the EPA but this has diddly-squat to do with the safety of DI water.

Personally, I'm siding with the FDA. Drink DI water if you want to. It's too expensive to drink all of the time and doesn't taste very good though so I drink water out of my faucet.

[BeanAnimal]

The WHO is is an outright joke. They are a political body, not a health organization. When they get involved in anything, rest assured it will cost a lot of money and do little good.

[miwoodar]

Originally posted by trmiv
president89 hasn't been back to the thread he started for some info. I wonder why...... Poor guy.

Hmmm.

I had a 46 gallon rolling can (~$40 version) that lasted about two years. It eventually sprung a leak at one of the sharper bends near the bottom. I didn't see any problems in my tank due to it's use. I did notice a slight musty smell every once in a while. That is to be expected when it is storing RO/DI water that doesn't contain any chlorine or any sort of disinfectant. I just rinsed it out with a light bleach solution every once in a while.

When that can started leaking I replaced it with similar rolling can (also ~$40 version). The second can lasted a month before cracking in a similar manner. I was keeping it roughly 3/4 full (much fuller than I typically kept my previous can).

My next can won't have wheels, fancy shapes or anything with sharp bends. I never used the wheels anyways. It will just be a standard can similar to this providing that I can find one labeled as food grade: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...ctId=100138897

[BeanAnimal]

Were they brutes or an off brand?

[miwoodar]

The rolling cans were name brand from Home Depot. They were not the flimsy cheap ones. They weren't the extra heavy duty $95 cans either though. Before I spend $95 on a can I'm going to look into other options.

[BeanAnimal]

If you are concerned about leaching, then you can purchase polypropylene or polyethylene containers from us plastics.

I use the brute, but mix salt in as it fills. I still get the smell once I empty it. I honestly am not that concerned with leaching. Others have used them for years. I do a 30gal water change MAYBE once every month.

My RO/DI top off water is stored in salt buckets that are plumbed to the system and my tank via automation. I am not concerned about that either

[cayars]

Originally posted by Wryknow
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/botwatr.html

Per the FDA, deionization an acceptable method of making "purified water" and it is fit for human consumption.

This of course is talking/reference to bottled water and other such things regulated by the gov.

I snipped the rest of your post but agree with it.

I just wanted to comment that DI is an acceptable method of purification BUT it needs to meet the U.S. Pharmacopeia, 23d Revision, Jan. 1, 1995 requirements to do so. If you have ever looked at it, it's very detailed and our little units don't measure up. Even the DI resins need to be FDA approved. That's the thing that worries me the most about people drinking the water since the resin we use for our tanks isn't designed or regulated for drinking purposes. Again this is per EPA/FDA and whatnot. Take it for what you think it's worth but keep in mind it's the standard (for good or bad) that our water bottled/tap is graded against.

I don't know of any bottled water or drinking water sold that uses DI anyway. For the most part it's to expensive and problematic for large scale use.

If anyone is wondering what the "specs" are for FDA approved bottled water: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...cfm?FR=165.110
Carlo

[miwoodar]

Originally posted by cayars
This of course is talking/reference to bottled water and other such things regulated by the gov.

I snipped the rest of your post but agree with it.

I just wanted to comment that DI is an acceptable method of purification BUT it needs to meet the U.S. Pharmacopeia, 23d Revision, Jan. 1, 1995 requirements to do so. If you have ever looked at it, it's very detailed and our little units don't measure up. Even the DI resins need to be FDA approved. That's the thing that worries me the most about people drinking the water since the resin we use for our tanks isn't designed or regulated for drinking purposes. Again this is per EPA/FDA and whatnot. Take it for what you think it's worth but keep in mind it's the standard (for good or bad) that our water bottled/tap is graded against.

I don't know of any bottled water or drinking water sold that uses DI anyway. For the most part it's to expensive and problematic for large scale use.

If anyone is wondering what the "specs" are for FDA approved bottled water: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/script...cfm?FR=165.110
Carlo

What is the title of this thread again? Start your own my friend. You're not helping the OP.

[davocean]

I personally don't drink DI myself because I've heard from too many knowedgable people tell me it's not good for you, including the guys at filterguys and thus the reason for the DI shutoff.
Where's AZdesertrat when you need him?
Anyway, taking this back close to the original Q, sounds like the Brute is good, I just happened to notice mine is the Rubbermaid roughneck.
Anything I should be concerned about w/ that brand?

[miwoodar]

Do you have wheels? If yes, how long have they worked for you?

I'm no longer a fan of the wheeled versions because two of mine cracked near one of the tighter bends.

[BeanAnimal]

The brute cans have an optional wheeled base that locks in place. I have only been using this setup for a few month or so. I do drag it from the fill area to the tank. (In wall fish room has no room for the container).

I drag it over some fairly high tile to carpet transistions. Check back with me in a few months and I will tell you how the wheels, handle, etc are doing.

[Randy1]

you can also get a 10 gal. from usplastics.com

[cayars]

Originally posted by miwoodar
What is the title of this thread again? Start your own my friend. You're not helping the OP.

What the heck does that mean? I have no idea?

[cayars]

davocean, The Rubbermaid roughnecks with built in wheels are cheaply made for the purpose of storing water. They tend to bulg and leak in a short time frame if you are lucky enough to get one that doesn't leak right from the start.

The brute cans on the other hand are very tough and more on the industrial side of things. The wheels themselves aren't built into the trash can. All 4 wheels are on a dolly and it's threaded so you can "screw" in on the bottom of the can. They are nicely made.

Carlo

[president89]

boy what a debate that turned out to be. I wound up buying two 32 g brutes with one set of wheels.

[davocean]

The roughnecks I have don't have wheels.
I've had them for over a year, and they have held up just fine, I was more concerned w/ the leaching issue.
I don't store RO/DI for more than a day, just in mixing new water, usually the day b4 WC.